Register FAQ / Rules Forum Spy Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read
Go Back   MacRumors Forums > Apple Systems and Services > OS X

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Old Jun 23, 2013, 11:14 PM   #51
2012Tony2012
Thread Starter
macrumors 6502a
 
2012Tony2012's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. Retrofire View Post
No, your problem is that you do not use the right tools (i.e. enough RAM) for your tasks. Why should we think, that the OS X is responsible for your problems?

If you buy a slow car, you cannot expect a Ferrari. My advice is: Buy the right tools (RAM upgrades or computers, if you can) for your tasks. It is really not difficult.
You are WAY OF TRACK and your comments are completely irrelevant! It's obvious you have not read or understood my comments. My iMac runs FAST and SMOOTH, let's repeat...it runs FAST AND SMOOTH! You need to read and maybe get someone to explain to you my comments as to the issue.

And once again, another very poor analogy that does not apply to me and my situation.
2012Tony2012 is offline   0 Reply With Quote
Old Jun 23, 2013, 11:41 PM   #52
smithrh
macrumors 68020
 
smithrh's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
To the OP:

I know this sounds far-fetched, but to reclaim your inactive RAM, use "Repair Disk Permissions" in Disk Utility. Try it, you'll see. The downside to this is that it can take anywhere from a couple of minutes to 5-6 minutes to complete. But it will save you a reboot.

To the others:

* 'purge' only exists on systems that have the Developer tools installed.

* There *are* instances where Mac OS X will page out when there is no free RAM but gobs of inactive RAM, leading to horrible performance.

* If you personally haven't seen this behavior (I have), then you really shouldn't dismiss it out of hand.

* One should note that Apple is pouring a lot of effort into improved memory management in Mavericks. Now, why would this be if things were in such a wonderful state presently?

* Apple also made improvements to memory management in 10.8.

So, yes, we've been over this before, mainly because some people don't like to listen. There are problems with memory management in OS X. If you haven't run into them, congratulations.

But that doesn't mean problems don't exist.
smithrh is offline   0 Reply With Quote
Old Jun 24, 2013, 04:12 AM   #53
AnonMac50
macrumors 65816
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Quote:
Originally Posted by smithrh View Post
To the OP:

I know this sounds far-fetched, but to reclaim your inactive RAM, use "Repair Disk Permissions" in Disk Utility. Try it, you'll see. The downside to this is that it can take anywhere from a couple of minutes to 5-6 minutes to complete. But it will save you a reboot.

To the others:

* 'purge' only exists on systems that have the Developer tools installed.

* There *are* instances where Mac OS X will page out when there is no free RAM but gobs of inactive RAM, leading to horrible performance.

* If you personally haven't seen this behavior (I have), then you really shouldn't dismiss it out of hand.

* One should note that Apple is pouring a lot of effort into improved memory management in Mavericks. Now, why would this be if things were in such a wonderful state presently?

* Apple also made improvements to memory management in 10.8.

So, yes, we've been over this before, mainly because some people don't like to listen. There are problems with memory management in OS X. If you haven't run into them, congratulations.

But that doesn't mean problems don't exist.
So that's why purge wouldn't work on m iBook. Thank you.
__________________
[Tutorial] Three Finger Drag on Non-supported Multitouch Macs (MAJOR UPDATES!!! (8/7/2013))
Front Row for Lion
Now I know why the maps icon wants you to jump off of a bridge!
AnonMac50 is offline   0 Reply With Quote
Old Jun 24, 2013, 04:28 AM   #54
InTheMist
macrumors member
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
The gentleman is viewing web pages and video.

Couldn't it it be Flash at fault?
InTheMist is offline   0 Reply With Quote
Old Jun 24, 2013, 05:00 AM   #55
benwiggy
macrumors 68020
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Quote:
Originally Posted by smithrh View Post
I know this sounds far-fetched, but to reclaim your inactive RAM, use "Repair Disk Permissions" in Disk Utility. Try it, you'll see. The downside to this is that it can take anywhere from a couple of minutes to 5-6 minutes to complete. But it will save you a reboot.
Yep, sounds far-fetched to me.
Can you cite any information showing any relationship between memory usage and repairing permissions, which does very little at the best of times?

I'm going to need some evidence beyond "I repaired permissions and then things got better -- the two must be connected."
__________________
2012 MacMini, 2.6GHz i7, 16Gb RAM, Fusion Drive | 2012 MacBook Pro, 16Gb RAM, 480 Gb SSD |
2009 MacBook | 2006 iMac | 2003 G3 iBook | Beige G3 | PowerMac 7600 | Mac IIsi |
benwiggy is offline   0 Reply With Quote
Old Jun 24, 2013, 10:49 AM   #56
smithrh
macrumors 68020
 
smithrh's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Quote:
Originally Posted by benwiggy View Post
Yep, sounds far-fetched to me.
Can you cite any information showing any relationship between memory usage and repairing permissions, which does very little at the best of times?

I'm going to need some evidence beyond "I repaired permissions and then things got better -- the two must be connected."
The cool thing here is that you need not believe me - you can try it for yourself.

Easy test plan:

* Get your Mac into a state where there's a lot of inactive RAM usage

* Run "repair disk permissions" from Disk Utility

* Watch your inactive RAM usage drop while repairing permissions works

When the repairing is complete, you'll have no or very little inactive RAM usage.


Update: interestingly enough, in 10.8.4 this no longer has any impact on inactive RAM, at least on the one Mac I tried it on. I don't have any machines on SL so I'm unable to run it on a SL machine.

It doesn't have to be Disk Utility either, you can get the same result from du -t / if run as root, but Disk Utility doesn't require root password.

Last edited by smithrh; Jun 24, 2013 at 11:44 AM. Reason: Updated with 10.8.4 datapoint
smithrh is offline   0 Reply With Quote
Old Jun 24, 2013, 01:05 PM   #57
chown33
macrumors 603
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Quote:
Originally Posted by smithrh View Post
It doesn't have to be Disk Utility either, you can get the same result from du -t / if run as root, but Disk Utility doesn't require root password.
The default 'du' utility on Snow Leopard or Mtn Lion doesn't have a -t option.

https://developer.apple.com/library/...man1/du.1.html
chown33 is offline   0 Reply With Quote
Old Jun 24, 2013, 01:22 PM   #58
smithrh
macrumors 68020
 
smithrh's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Oops - typo, try:

sudo du -h -d1 /
smithrh is offline   0 Reply With Quote
Old Jun 25, 2013, 05:01 AM   #59
benwiggy
macrumors 68020
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Quote:
Originally Posted by smithrh View Post
* Run "repair disk permissions" from Disk Utility
* Watch your inactive RAM usage drop while repairing permissions works

Update: interestingly enough, in 10.8.4 this no longer has any impact on inactive RAM, at least on the one Mac I tried it on.
So, what you're saying is: Inactive RAM is freed up when a resource-intensive task is performed?

Sounds like OS X memory management is working well!
__________________
2012 MacMini, 2.6GHz i7, 16Gb RAM, Fusion Drive | 2012 MacBook Pro, 16Gb RAM, 480 Gb SSD |
2009 MacBook | 2006 iMac | 2003 G3 iBook | Beige G3 | PowerMac 7600 | Mac IIsi |
benwiggy is offline   0 Reply With Quote
Old Jun 25, 2013, 11:45 AM   #60
throAU
macrumors 68030
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Perth, Western Australia
(from experience with pretty much every OS out there)


Memory management in Lion was a bit borked. It was doing the right thing, but tuned to be too aggressive in terms of balancing between purging and paging for a spinning disk. On SSD (which is what I guess the mac developers were running it on ) it was fine. If you had 8 gigs it was a lot better. I.e., the theory was sound, the tuning knobs were set wrong.

10.7.4 and ML fixed that to an extent. Mavericks is better. I've run all of them on the same hardware.


SL doesn't suffer from the same problem (which runs happily on my mini with 2 GB, but doesn't do any iCloud stuff, doesn't do versions, etc, etc.... features aren't free and RAM is cheap. buy more!)



edit:
"repair disk permissions" is just flushing inactive memory by making the OS demand ram for disk cache (and it will be forced to drop inactive content to satisfy that). the time you spend rooting around with disk utility could be better spent just waiting for the machine to swap stuff back in that you're actually working on.

but yes, the process you are following WILL do something similar to purge. sort of.
__________________
MBP (early 2011) - Core i7 2720 2.2ghz, Hires Glossy, 16GB, Seagate Momentus XT 750GB
Mac Mini (mid 2007) - Core2 Duo 1.8, 2gb, 320gb 7200 rpm
iPhone 4S, iPad 4, iPad Mini, HTC One (eval)

Last edited by throAU; Jun 25, 2013 at 11:50 AM.
throAU is offline   0 Reply With Quote
Old Jun 25, 2013, 01:51 PM   #61
smithrh
macrumors 68020
 
smithrh's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Quote:
Originally Posted by benwiggy View Post
So, what you're saying is: Inactive RAM is freed up when a resource-intensive task is performed?

Sounds like OS X memory management is working well!
No, hardly.

'du' doesn't qualify as any sort of resource-intensive task.

Nor does 'repair_packages'.

To be clear, this trick has been around for quite some time, I'm certainly not the first to use it:

http://forums.macrumors.com/showpost...91&postcount=6

----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by throAU View Post
the time you spend rooting around with disk utility could be better spent just waiting for the machine to swap stuff back in that you're actually working on.
The problem - and I'm really hoping 10.8.4 has fixed this, but we'll see, plus this is a SL thread - is that swapping occurs when there is gobs of inactive memory available.

I don't give a flying hoot about things happening that don't impact performance - rather, this is a problem that would cause bad performance, then I went looking for the cause.

Now I'm nearly 100% SSD on my Macs, still see the problem from time to time but now a reboot is fairly painless to execute.
smithrh is offline   0 Reply With Quote
Old Jun 26, 2013, 09:11 PM   #62
2012Tony2012
Thread Starter
macrumors 6502a
 
2012Tony2012's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Quote:
Originally Posted by smithrh View Post
.... and I'm really hoping 10.8.4 has fixed this, but we'll see, ...
Don't hold your breath...if they couldn't be bothered to fix this so far, then they probably never will. It's a VERY POOR design FLAW in Mac OS X.
2012Tony2012 is offline   0 Reply With Quote

Reply
MacRumors Forums > Apple Systems and Services > OS X

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Similar Threads
thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
iMac was running Snow Leo; Genius put Mtn Lion; I NEED Snow Leopard back; have disk SophiaSapphire Mac Basics and Help 14 Oct 20, 2013 12:17 PM
Leopard to Snow Leopard on MBP 2009 - worth it? uncleMonty OS X 6 Feb 17, 2013 12:28 PM
Downgrading from Lion to Snow using time machine and USB (Snow Leopard) djarsalan2006 OS X 0 Jan 18, 2013 11:37 PM
Upgrade Leopard to Snow Leopard 2008 iMac? roberttrussell MacBook 1 Nov 18, 2012 05:02 PM
Syncing iPhone 5 on PPC Leopard via a Snow Leopard Macbook Jethryn Freyman PowerPC Macs 2 Oct 2, 2012 08:09 AM

Forum Jump

All times are GMT -5. The time now is 11:25 AM.

Mac Rumors | Mac | iPhone | iPhone Game Reviews | iPhone Apps

Mobile Version | Fixed | Fluid | Fluid HD
Copyright 2002-2013, MacRumors.com, LLC