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Old Apr 2, 2013, 06:52 PM   #26
phrehdd
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Originally Posted by LethalWolfe View Post
OTA isn't uncompressed. There is a finite amount of spectrum each channel gets (6 MHz I think) and that is a big reason the transition to HD took so long. HD was first experimented with in the '60's but it wasn't until digital compression came along that an HD signal could be effectively compressed down into the same amount of bandwidth as an analog SD signal. Channels (from OTA and cable) could have better IQ but many times they will spilt a single channel into multiple sub channels (ex 13.1, 13.2 13.3, etc.,) which degrades quality but lets the distributor send out more content which means more ads which means more revenue.

A big advantage streaming has is that the Internet is a much more malleably distribution medium than baseband video signals. YouTube, for example, went from streaming 320x240p in '05 to 1080p in 2009 and these upgrades were basically invisible to the end user. OTA can only utilize better compression to stay within the allotted bandwidth where as streaming can benefit from both better compression and increased bandwidth.



And no one is disputing the variable quality of media that reaches the end user though in your specific example what do you expect from a DVD? It's a video standard with roots in the 30's using compression that was cutting edge in 1996.

With regards to poor transfers of older films, it comes down to money. It takes time and money to do a quality restoration and the distributor footing the bill isn't going to spend more on the restoration and distribution than they think they will make in profit from selling the end product. I doubt 4K will be any better because the bottom line is still about revenue and Joe Average consumer is fine watching a 4x3 movie distorted or enlarged to fill a 16x9 TV because they don't like having the bars on the sides of the image. Quality is not a primary concern (if it was MP3s would not be central to a watershed moment in media distribution).

There are also limits to the human vision system and I'd wager that given average eye sight, average viewing distance and average HDTV size the vast majority of viewers wouldn't be able to tell the difference between a 720p signal and a 1080p signal let alone the difference between 1080p and 4K. For 4K people will probably need TV's the size of walls or be sitting so close they can touch the screen. People will be them though, whether they can actually tell a difference or not, because big is better and to many it's about keeping up with the Jones'.

With that being said Sony is releasing a line of Blu-rays of movies that were mastered in 4K (the final image is still 1080p of course) and I think Sony is working to master all of its modern movies in 4K so maybe there is a light at the end of the tunnel for those desiring a more pristine viewing experience.
Digital OTA is pretty much uncompressed. Analogue is another story. Digital OTA is vastly superior to any Sat or Cable. As for Internet streaming, it beats that as well.

I'll stand by my statement that 4K of any movies will be a hit and miss affair exactly like DVD and Blu Ray. The argument about what people will pay is rather silly as Criterion as mentioned does a brilliant job and its market is very select unlike the typical studios.

As for Sony, of course they love 4K as they are trying to get their studio and hardware profits UP. This is the same Sony that has a PS3 that hardware-wise should be able to play various media files but Sony refuses to support them because as you gather, it is a conflict with their own offerings.

Hope you enjoy the 4k and truly hope they do a great job with it. - I just wont hold my breath as Sony and a couple of others will have a few good titles to parade around and the rest will be exactly like Blu Ray and DVD - hit and miss.
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Old Apr 3, 2013, 12:34 AM   #27
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Originally Posted by phrehdd View Post
Digital OTA is pretty much uncompressed. Analogue is another story. Digital OTA is vastly superior to any Sat or Cable. As for Internet streaming, it beats that as well.
Digital OTA is 19.39-Mbps MPEG2 per channel which is not close to uncompressed. For example, 720p HDV is also MPEG2 at 19Mbps and ProRes 4444 (which still is not uncompressed) is about 370 Mbps at 720p60. From what I've read (and I'm not claiming to be an expert) cable and satellite use the DVB standard (not ATSC) which gives them 38.47 Mbps per channel which is almost twice the bandwidth of digital OTA. Cable and satellite tend to sub channel a lot more than OTA which is why NBC via cable/sat doesn't look as good as NBC via OTA.

I agree that right now the cleanest looking HD tends to come from from OTA and Blu-ray (all other variables being equal) but OTA has the least room to grow and this thread is about the future. OTA is locked at 19.39Mbps/channel using MPEG2 compression unless we go through another round of replacing transmission equipment and everyone getting a new TV (or a converter box to hook up to their TV) and I don't see that happening anytime soon. Satellite and cable can switch end users to newer technologies just by switching out their cable/satellite set top boxes. Satellite companies (not sure about cable companies) have already started using H.264 compression on some of their channels and H.264 is twice as efficient as MPEG2. Streaming has been using H.264 for a while now and H.265 (which is twice as efficient as H.264) is around the corner. H.265 will probably be a big piece in the puzzle that allows affordable 4K distribution to the mainstream consumer to happen as well as improved delivery of content in general to mobile devices receiving data via cell networks.

Quote:
I'll stand by my statement that 4K of any movies will be a hit and miss affair exactly like DVD and Blu Ray.
No one has disagreed with this statement. You said you hoped that some sort of minium quality standards would come into place when 4K became normal and mBox and I said that likely won't happen for the same reasons it hasn't happend already.

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The argument about what people will pay is rather silly as Criterion as mentioned does a brilliant job and its market is very select unlike the typical studios.
Yeah, that's what I said. Criterion caters to a niche market that is willing to pay extra (many times double) primarily for improved visual quality where as the vast majority of people that want, say, Brazil on Blu-ray will pay $15 for the regular release and not $31 for the Criterion edition (Amazon prices). That's not silly that's just the reality of the situation.
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Old Apr 3, 2013, 05:10 AM   #28
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