Going wide(r)

mulo · Jun 9, 2013

Hi folks.

I have recently been wanting to go a little wider then my current setup allows me.
I've currently got a 7D + 24-70mm (FOV=38-113mm) + 70-200mm (FOV=113-324mm)

I have been considering two ways to go about this, but I don't know which way I should go...
My first thought was to get the 10-22mm lens canon makes, which would get me in at a FOV=16-35mm I however don't think I would be going that wide very often. the upside to this approach is that i retain my 324mm FOV at the long end of my setup and its the cheaper of the two solutions.

Then god curse the person who showed me http://www.dxomark.com... According to this site I would be getting roughly twice the sharpness out of both my 24-70mm and 70-200mm by upgrading to a 5D mk III... The downside to this is that it is bloody expensive, and i loose a lot at the long end, but I get to be around the 20-24mm wide end I wanna be at... On the plus side, I get a fancy new FF camera and my images should get be a lot sharper - their really bad right now imo...

Bear · Jun 9, 2013

I'd say go for the 10-22mm lens. I have the Nikon 12-24 (18-36 equiv for full frame) and while I don't go to 12mm all that often, I had the 12mm when I needed it and the results were fantastic. This is with a Nikon D200.

swordio777 · Jun 9, 2013

You say at the end of your post that the 20-24mm equivalent is where you want to be. Well your 24-70 lens certainly won't get you as wide as 20mm, even if you do mount it on a full-frame sensor. But the canon 10-22 will cover that whole range on your current crop sensor.

You might also want to look into the Tamron 11-16 f/2.8. It's supposedly a fantastic lens (although I must admit, I've never actually used it). It obviously leaves a bigger gap between where that lens ends and your 24-70 starts, but it's also half the price of the canon 10-22.

With regards to sharpness, there's no way your 24-70 or 70-200 L lenses should be "really bad", regardless of what camera they're on. The 7D has a great sensor so I really can't understand that at all. Are you sure you're sharpening them correctly in post? Do you shoot in raw, and what are you using to sharpen your images?

OreoCookie · Jun 9, 2013

First of all, if you are not satisfied with the image quality of a 7D combined with expensive pro glass, don't expect that an upgrade to a 5D Mark III will help much. There must be something seriously wrong with your equipment if you can't get satisfactory results.

I think there are two more or less obvious choices:
(1) Replace*the 24-70 mm by a 17-55 mm f/2.8 (e. g. Canon's). This will give you an equivalent of a 28-80 mm on your current camera. In essence, if you don't need more than 28 mm (which is a classic focal length for wide-angle shots), this solution would give you the same focal length range as an upgrade to a full frame body.
(2) Get a UW zoom, e. g. Tokina's 12-24 mm or its new 12-28 mm. Since you wrote, you don't need it to be that wide, I don't think the best of the UW zooms for crop sensors, Tokina's 11-16 mm, is for you.

Unfortunately, Canon (and Nikon) don't see fit to add a sufficient number of lenses for crop sensor, in particular fast primes optimized for APS-C-sized sensors. Hence, I don't know of any good UW prime options you may have with the exception of Samyang's 14 mm f/2.8 prime. The downside is of course that this is a manual focus lens. I don't know whether the 7D has a focus aid in that situation.

Mr.Noisy · Jun 10, 2013

OreoCookie said:
(1) Replace*the 24-70 mm by a 17-55 mm f/2.8

The 7D is a great camera, as OreoCookie suggested think about replacing the 24-70 with the 17-55, on a crop sensor its a great lens, then if you need to go wider have a look at Canons 10-22 or the Sigma 10-20, both get great results

Attonine · Jun 10, 2013

I don't think a 5DmkIII is the natural solution for you.

Exactly how wide do you need to go and what for? Landscapes, street, reportage?

I vote for the 17-55 2.8 or 10-22, depending on exactly how wide you are looking to go and what kind of photography you need this wider field of view for.

The 7D is a great camera, a bit noisy at high ISO, but tough, weather sealed, and fast! If you are having sharpness problems with the equipment you currently have i would suggest you have a problem with your usage/technique or faulty equipment (including eyes! Could be time for glasses maybe?).

Review sites are fine and give a good starting point. But really, don't lose too much sleep over their recommendations, especially the really technical ones. Are you really going to notice twice the sharpness in your images? Is it going to be useful, are you blowing your images up to billboard size?

twitch31 · Jun 10, 2013

I'll go against the grain here. I tihnk a FF camera will offer a significant step up for you and given you already own quality FF lenses it makes sense. I'd look at a 6D unless you need, I mean really need, the AF performance of the 5DIII.

mulo · Jun 11, 2013

swordio777 said:
You say at the end of your post that the 20-24mm equivalent is where you want to be. Well your 24-70 lens certainly won't get you as wide as 20mm, even if you do mount it on a full-frame sensor. But the canon 10-22 will cover that whole range on your current crop sensor.

With regards to sharpness, there's no way your 24-70 or 70-200 L lenses should be "really bad", regardless of what camera they're on. The 7D has a great sensor so I really can't understand that at all. Are you sure you're sharpening them correctly in post? Do you shoot in raw, and what are you using to sharpen your images?

Well make it 20-28 then, I don't really know for certain, its just an idea I have.. I've never actually owned anything that wide so I can't really tell. I once rented the 10-22, and while I found it to be a good lens, the very short long end really felt limiting.

I know my L's aren't the problem. I have had them to CPS for calibration with my camera, and tried them on a mates 5D II - on which they performed phenomenally..

twitch31 said:
I'll go against the grain here. I tihnk a FF camera will offer a significant step up for you and given you already own quality FF lenses it makes sense. I'd look at a 6D unless you need, I mean really need, the AF performance of the 5DIII.

I did consider this option, but rather then going for the 6D I was thinking of buying a used 5D II instead (how do these compare anyway?) I am however a little apprehensive about this. Originally, my sole reason for moving up to the 7D was the better AF and higher burst rates, as I wanted to use it for sports.

Thanks for all your replies

/"\/oo\/"\ · Jun 11, 2013

I think you can answer some of your own questions here,

-Getting the 7D for sports photography, how often have you found yourself needing the AF system and faster burst rate?
-If you've already rented the 10-22 and felt limited by the zoom range, why are you considering buying one now?

This varies for everybody, but for projects that fall into the "just an idea" category, personal projects may warrant renting a lens or maybe buying a lens, but not a $3k body. That changes for professional projects based on expected ROI. The 5DIII is a wonderful and capable camera, but I seriously doubt your 7D is a limiting factor unless you need better low-light capability.

If you just want a new body, go for it- I'd skip the 5DII unless you're going to keep the 7D as well, take a good look at the 6D since for most people it represents at least 80% of the capability of the 5DIII and the 5DIII...if you aren't paying bills with your photography, how deep are your pockets? Like a track car or superbike, worth every penny if you can put it in an appropriate environment with a skilled operator, almost worthless for a run down to Starbucks.

If you want give wide angle/ultra-wide angle photography a shot, get a wide angle lens

I spend a lot of time at the wide end of my 17-40 and enjoy the challenges it presents and the results.

mulo · Jun 12, 2013

/"\/oo\/"\;17402706 said:
I think you can answer some of your own questions here,

-Getting the 7D for sports photography, how often have you found yourself needing the AF system and faster burst rate?
-If you've already rented the 10-22 and felt limited by the zoom range, why are you considering buying one now?

This varies for everybody, but for projects that fall into the "just an idea" category, personal projects may warrant renting a lens or maybe buying a lens, but not a $3k body. That changes for professional projects based on expected ROI. The 5DIII is a wonderful and capable camera, but I seriously doubt your 7D is a limiting factor unless you need better low-light capability.

If you just want a new body, go for it- I'd skip the 5DII unless you're going to keep the 7D as well, take a good look at the 6D since for most people it represents at least 80% of the capability of the 5DIII and the 5DIII...if you aren't paying bills with your photography, how deep are your pockets? Like a track car or superbike, worth every penny if you can put it in an appropriate environment with a skilled operator, almost worthless for a run down to Starbucks.

If you want give wide angle/ultra-wide angle photography a shot, get a wide angle lens I spend a lot of time at the wide end of my 17-40 and enjoy the challenges it presents and the results.

How often have I found myself needing the better AF of the 7D? Well considering I make no money taking pictures, I don't need anything else then a point and shoot.
So how often do I enjoy the snappiness of the focus, every single time.

Why am I considering the 10-22 you ask? - because its cheap, I've just bought a new car last month so money is a little tight already. I am however at an opportunity because taxations, inflation and currency conversions are in my favor of saving a lot of money.

I happen to live in a country where the inflation and taxation is high enough that I can sell my 7D, buy a 6D in the US (where I am going next month), with money left over. I have bought gear abroad before, used it and sold it again, at a profit.

fa8362 · Jun 12, 2013

mulo said:
Then god curse the person who showed me http://www.dxomark.com... According to this site I would be getting roughly twice the sharpness out of both my 24-70mm and 70-200mm by upgrading to a 5D mk III...

You can't seriously believe that do you?

mulo · Jun 14, 2013

this could actually be an option!
http://www.engadget.com/2013/06/14/...utm_source=Feed_Classic&utm_campaign=Engadget

mrcam216 · Jun 17, 2013

Mr.Noisy said:
The 7D is a great camera, as OreoCookie suggested think about replacing the 24-70 with the 17-55, on a crop sensor its a great lens, then if you need to go wider have a look at Canons 10-22 or the Sigma 10-20, both get great results

I also agree. I've been using the 17-55 on the 7d for a while and love it. At 17mm, it is usually wide enough to capture pretty much anything needed, personally for my use, anything wider would be too wide.

tgara · Jun 17, 2013

Well, I used a Tokina 12-24 f/4 on my 7D with great results.

The 7D produces outstanding images. If yours are not sharp, there is either something wrong with your technique, or something wrong with your gear.

AlaskaMoose · Jun 23, 2013

tgara said:
Well, I used a Tokina 12-24 f/4 on my 7D with great results.

Image

The 7D produces outstanding images. If yours are not sharp, there is either something wrong with your technique, or something wrong with your gear.

Very nice.

Also, the Tokina 11-16mm f/2.8 is another real good lens in addition to the 12-24.

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Going wide(r)

mulo

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Bear

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swordio777

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OreoCookie

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Mr.Noisy

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Attonine

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twitch31

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mulo

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/"\/oo\/"\

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mulo

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