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Old Jun 7, 2014, 11:55 AM   #26
skunk
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Clearly all police should be equipped with wheelie bins.
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Old Jun 7, 2014, 08:30 PM   #27
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What a completely vile, inappropriate and insulting response.
Thank you.

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Originally Posted by Vanilla Ice View Post
*Spell check*

America is number 1 in my book and I would have it no other way. No matter how corrupt our government and laws are. I am happy to live free. Sorry if you feel different. I hear Canada is nice.

I agree that cops get out of control in this country. I have many friends that are deputies and respect the law and civilians. I myself respect cops since they have a dangerous job, especially when they have to wear a bulletproof vest while on the job. What cracks me up, Liberals in this forum argue how they feel ONLY police should only have firearms till something like this happens.

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Please explain to me what i said was so insulting?
Where did you get I lived in Canada now? If that is what you meant.
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Old Jun 8, 2014, 03:53 AM   #28
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No matter how corrupt our government and laws are. I am happy to live free. Sorry if you feel different.
But what is freedom worth if you are subject to corrupt government?
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Old Jun 8, 2014, 07:01 AM   #29
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My issue is that they're not explicitly trained and held responsible to only use a firearm in extreme cases. If any situation beyond someone who is both weak and unarmed requires the use of a firearm, they are essentially worthless. It angers me more that they remain that way.
I tend to think any reduction would just be met with further claims. If they shoot they should have tasered. If they taser they should have used physical force. If they use physical force they should just have talked her down.

There isn't really enough information to know what should have happened. I don't think there is even any definitive reports on what the knife was. Some say it was a butter knife but I don't think the family would have called emergency services in to help them deal with that.

Ideally the family should have there when the officers arrived because a knife wielding person chasing after a police officer with kids around isn't the most promising situation to be in.
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Old Jun 8, 2014, 07:09 AM   #30
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I tend to think any reduction would just be met with further claims. If they shoot they should have tasered. If they taser they should have used physical force. If they use physical force they should just have talked her down.
They should obviously have used wheelie bins. They were not properly equipped, in any sense.
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Old Jun 8, 2014, 07:22 AM   #31
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They should obviously have used wheelie bins. They were not properly equipped, in any sense.
We had an intern from the US last year. He asked me how could I fear the police since they aren't armed. Seems like an odd frame of mind to have. Am I supposed to fear the police, respect with a tiny sliver of intimidation maybe but fear? Different social context there, he didn't even know what size A4 was.

Wheelie bins work better when someone is surrounded by 4-35 people and time to evaluate the situation. With 2 officers and no time probably not so well.
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Old Jun 8, 2014, 07:30 AM   #32
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Originally Posted by nebo1ss View Post
Below is an example of handling a similar situation when the Police is not equipped with Guns.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...eelie-bin.html
Holy ****, zerg rush. 35 cops to 1 man. Hilarious.
Police force strategy shouldn't be modeled after video games.
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Old Jun 8, 2014, 01:16 PM   #33
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The last time the police behaved inappropriately even vaguely like this here was when the Tottenham riots started in 2011.

I know we have only 1/5 of the population but still this kind of thing seems to happen a lot in the US.
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Old Jun 8, 2014, 03:26 PM   #34
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http://www.latimes.com/local/la-me-0607-jails-suicides-20140607-story.html#page=1

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The last time the police behaved inappropriately even vaguely like this here was when the Tottenham riots started in 2011.

I know we have only 1/5 of the population but still this kind of thing seems to happen a lot in the US.
I don't know how it is in the UK, but, in the US, learning how to deal with mentally ill people is still not a priority for the police:

Quote:
Academics vs. Training

A college education differs from police academy training. “In state and large local police departments, recruits get training in their agency’s police academy,” the Bureau of Labor Statistics describes. “In small agencies, recruits often attend a regional or state academy. Training includes classroom instruction in constitutional law, civil rights, state laws and local ordinances, and police ethics. Recruits also receive training and supervised experience in areas such as patrol, traffic control, use of firearms, self-defense, first aid, and emergency response.”
http://www.bluesheepdog.com/2013/02/...w-enforcement/

And yet, the mentally ill are a major problem for virtually all police departments. This the latest on the L.A. county jail-- which has been under Federal scrutiny since 1997:

Quote:
Feds step up pressure for L.A. County Jail reforms

June 6, 2014

Citing a dramatic increase in jail suicides, the U.S. Department of Justice announced Friday that it was seeking court oversight of how the Los Angeles County Sheriff's Department treats mentally ill inmates.

The move marks a significant expansion of the federal government's efforts to improve the "deplorable" living conditions and care of the mentally ill in the nation's largest jail system.

Jail cells are "dimly lit, vermin-infested, noisy, unsanitary, cramped and crowded," exacerbating prisoners' mental distress, the Justice Department said in a report to county officials.

"Prisoners with mental illness do not receive adequate supervision and are housed in conditions that present, rather than prevent, a risk of suicide," the report stated.
http://www.latimes.com/local/la-me-0...ry.html#page=1

Last edited by jnpy!$4g3cwk; Jun 8, 2014 at 03:27 PM. Reason: typo, etc.
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Old Jun 8, 2014, 04:06 PM   #35
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I would just like to apologize for my previous comment. This just caused a lot of anger in me since mentally ill people should never be treated like this. Having a brother like that just caused much more grief.
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Old Jun 8, 2014, 04:27 PM   #36
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Originally Posted by jnpy!$4g3cwk View Post
I don't know how it is in the UK, but, in the US, learning how to deal with mentally ill people is still not a priority for the police:
I just mean people shot by the police in less than black and white circumstances.
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Old Jun 8, 2014, 10:39 PM   #37
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I just mean people shot by the police in less than black and white circumstances.
Some police departments in the U.S. are giving all officers at least basic training, with special units on call. New York City, for example. I don't know of any city with a full program of police training and an effective diversion and treatment program with enough bandwidth to handle all the mentally ill people the police bring in. At the opposite end of the spectrum would be Albuquerque, with this shameful episode that I'm sure everyone remembers:

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/04/02/us...wing.html?_r=0

Los Angeles does give its officers basic training, but, there is completely inadequate treatment available either inside or outside the jail system, as was outlined in the other article.
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Old Jun 8, 2014, 10:40 PM   #38
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...No matter how corrupt our government and laws are. I am happy to live free. Sorry if you feel different.
There's a series of fallacies in the above. First, there's the assumption that an increasingly corrupt government won't distort freedom, which seems bizarre considering numerous historical analogues. Second, there's the straw man that since someone doesn't think the United States is the best, they must not want freedom. Which seems patently silly considering the many free nations that are not the United States.

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...I agree that cops get out of control in this country. I have many friends that are deputies and respect the law and civilians. I myself respect cops since they have a dangerous job, especially when they have to wear a bulletproof vest while on the job.
I have a great deal of respect for police officers who do a difficult, complex, and thankless job. But, they also wield a great deal of power, including the ability to detain and use force, including lethal force. This requires officers who can be held to a higher standard and that includes risking their own person when it comes to protecting civilians, even people who have clearly flipped their lid.

In cities where police officers are routinely allowed to kill people with a serious analysis, police officers are more likely to use lethal force. So, a just society is one where officers rarely use lethal force and only in the most dire of incidents.

Officers have a wide continuum of force and a spectrum of weapons to use in order to operate within that continuum, so when an officer shoots someone, either he had no choice or he has made a drastic decision.

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...What cracks me up, Liberals in this forum argue how they feel ONLY police should only have firearms till something like this happens...
A straw man.

However, there's also an argument that since police are often bad at assessing when to use lethal force and they're highly trained, letting the average civilian who isn't held to higher standards of training and law, isn't likely to produce a positive result.
To put it another way: if cops can't be responsible with firearms, what makes you think the civilian rabble would be better?
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Old Jun 9, 2014, 08:16 AM   #39
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Tasers have killed people too. I think the cops over use those as well.
They certainly do, doesn't mean there aren't appropriate times to use them like this one. There is a big difference in using a taser on an unarmed person coming after you with a knife and using it on someone sitting there who was one second too slow in obeying you.
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Old Jul 6, 2014, 04:28 PM   #40
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They certainly do, doesn't mean there aren't appropriate times to use them like this one. There is a big difference in using a taser on an unarmed person coming after you with a knife and using it on someone sitting there who was one second too slow in obeying you.
At least she didn't get shot: a video making the rounds of a woman with (hearsay) mental problems being "detained".




This one could also have been in the thread about the police wearing cameras. Because I wonder what the police officer "saw".

Last edited by jnpy!$4g3cwk; Jul 6, 2014 at 04:50 PM. Reason: typo, booboo
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Old Jul 6, 2014, 04:34 PM   #41
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Originally Posted by jnpy!$4g3cwk View Post
At least she didn't get shot: a video making the rounds of a woman with (hearsay) mental problems being "detained".
Jnpy, you've had some spectacularly bad luck embedding Youtube videos these last couple of days. You need to set them up like:

(youtube)ac0E6deG4AU(/youtube)

...but with [] brackets, rather than ()
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Old Jul 6, 2014, 04:44 PM   #42
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Please explain to me what i said was so insulting?
If this has to be explained to you, then it's kind of pointless, but I'll try anyway.

Someone read this story where a mentally ill girls with a knife was shot and killed while there were two cops there to deal with her. She had a knife...unless she's a ninja, it's unlikely that she's a threat more than about three feet away. There are certainly other steps thy could have taken than killing her.

So this guy has a brother who has a condition which could lead him into uncontrollable seizures, amongst other things. He voices his concern for living in a place where police are so poorly trained they could likely kill him during an episode.

And your response is to say something akin to "Well then stay away. We don't need you or your brother because people with such afflictions aren't welcome around here".

How can you NOT see that as being insulting???

Quote:
America is number 1 in my book and I would have it no other way. No matter how corrupt our government and laws are. I am happy to live free. Sorry if you feel different. I hear Canada is nice.
And you think people aren't free in other first-world countries?

Quote:
What cracks me up, Liberals in this forum argue how they feel ONLY police should only have firearms till something like this happens.
Huh? Something like this? So, the mentally ill girl should have had a gun as well?? Is that your apparent "conservative" stance? Or are you saying that no one should have been armed in this situation, and it would have turned out better?
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Old Jul 6, 2014, 05:07 PM   #43
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Huh? Something like this? So, the mentally ill girl should have had a gun as well?? Is that your apparent "conservative" stance? Or are you saying that no one should have been armed in this situation, and it would have turned out better?
There's actually a much more concise description for most of the tripe he posts, but I would rather not be banned. Posting remarkably stupid comments really has nothing to do with political ideology.
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