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Old May 28, 2014, 04:13 AM   #276
kwijbo
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cgc View Post
I doubt Apple would see the Mini you specced as competition to the MacPro...it would be a good machine for day to day stuff and light gaming (e.g. Counterstrike: Source, my fave).
For sure not but for those whose needs are somewhere between the top Mini and the base Pro, what do you do? A Mini specced as above would provide an intermediate step between the two.
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Old May 28, 2014, 06:13 AM   #277
SuperPolli
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Originally Posted by propower View Post
For me,

Some light photo and video editing, a ton of pro audio work and general web stuff -- maybe a movie

So for the last 10 years, every graphics card I have used (mostly lowly) have been 100% up to the task. HD4000 seems perfectly capable of delivering again... plus triple monitor support if I need it (I I always have at least two mirrored ones)

So... help me understand... I see SO much complaining about this... What is the negative impact to "YOU" of HD4000 graphics. What exactly will be the cost? A little slower screen redraws? A little slower filter application in photoshop? ... Some monitors not work at all? Is it just all about games??
For a lot of people it's a name. They think that HD4000 isn't good enough and won't give them the performance they need. I've used both HD3000 and HD4000 and they both perform extremely well. I've used those cards for presentations, photo editing, and gaming. Anyone who says the HD4000 isn't good enough clearly has no experience using them.
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Old May 28, 2014, 06:34 AM   #278
Brandy92
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My HD3000 equipped Air can't play much at all, and when it does it sounds like it's about to take off!
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Old May 28, 2014, 07:47 AM   #279
crsh1976
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SuperPolli View Post
For a lot of people it's a name. They think that HD4000 isn't good enough and won't give them the performance they need. I've used both HD3000 and HD4000 and they both perform extremely well. I've used those cards for presentations, photo editing, and gaming. Anyone who says the HD4000 isn't good enough clearly has no experience using them.
Let's be clear here, photo editing and presentations don't need a beefy GPU and the HD 4000 does a fine job there, "gaming" is too wide and needs to have some variables defined - which game, at which resolution and with which quality settings.

You want to play older games or 2D/card games or Facebook games in a browser? The HD 4000 is fine for that.

You want to play Battlefield 4 at 2560x1440 with decent eye candy effects? It's going to be a slideshow, if the game even runs at all.

Those are two extremes, there's a lot of stuff that fits in between; as a general rule of thumb tho, for recent games at higher resolutions and settings, the HD 4000 won't cut it.

You can however reduce the screen resolution and quality settings to get better performance and, in most cases, you will be able to play most games in some capacity - it won't be the best experience ever, but it'll work.
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Old May 28, 2014, 09:08 AM   #280
cgc
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kwijbo View Post
For sure not but for those whose needs are somewhere between the top Mini and the base Pro, what do you do? A Mini specced as above would provide an intermediate step between the two.
Besides daily MS Office, web browsing, and iTunes, I do some work in Pixelmator, Aperture, SketchUp, and other apps of that nature. Nothing really demanding though Aperture seems really sluggish all the time on my MacPro. Additionally, as mentioned earlier, I play Counterstrike:Source, Portal2, Half-Life, and XPlane 10 (though not much). The only game I play much is Counterstrike:Source...

I specced out a mini-ITX build that includes i7-4770K, Geforce 760ti, 16GB memory, 500GB Samsung SSD, and a blueray player for ~$1,550 which is about $300 more than a maxed out Mini currently, but it SMOKES the Mini so if Apple doesn't come through I'm declaring a "broken arrow" on OSX in my home and going to Windows or Linux (just watched "We Were Soldiers", thus the reference).
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Old May 28, 2014, 12:11 PM   #281
SuperPolli
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Fine Point, but...

Quote:
Originally Posted by crsh1976 View Post
Let's be clear here, photo editing and presentations don't need a beefy GPU and the HD 4000 does a fine job there, "gaming" is too wide and needs to have some variables defined - which game, at which resolution and with which quality settings.

You want to play older games or 2D/card games or Facebook games in a browser? The HD 4000 is fine for that.

You want to play Battlefield 4 at 2560x1440 with decent eye candy effects? It's going to be a slideshow, if the game even runs at all.

Those are two extremes, there's a lot of stuff that fits in between; as a general rule of thumb tho, for recent games at higher resolutions and settings, the HD 4000 won't cut it.

You can however reduce the screen resolution and quality settings to get better performance and, in most cases, you will be able to play most games in some capacity - it won't be the best experience ever, but it'll work.
That's a fine point. Gaming has many different styles, resolutions, and types. So let me rephrase what I wrote earlier. Light gaming (Civilization V, Sim City 4, and Angry Birds, to name a few) should work fairly well. Games like Battlefied 4, mentioned above, probably won't run as well. But I don't really know of anyone that does extreme gaming on a Mac. Some of the most diehard Mac users I know keep an Alienware, Xbox, or Playstation around for when they want to do some serious gaming. Macs and OS X aren't designed for gaming and probably never will be. So the HD4000 works fine with what Macs and OS X are designed for.
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Old May 28, 2014, 04:18 PM   #282
Schnort
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Civ V is not anywhere close to a lightweight game when it comes to CPU or GPU requirements. On my HD4000 equipped i3 laptop with plenty of memory on a 1368x768 screen it runs slow, even at the beginning of a game...much less at the mid or end game.

That thing is a ginormous pig.
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Old May 30, 2014, 02:24 AM   #283
toke lahti
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If there won't be new mini on Monday, can current mini run recent After Effects?
I might upgrade my CS5 AE to CS6, if I get cheap 2nd hand bargain...
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Old Jul 12, 2014, 09:12 AM   #284
vista980622
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Spectrum View Post
I think it depends how you define "great".

For context: I have the 2011 mini with HD3000 and a 2011 MBPro with HD3000. The mini CANNOT run Lion animations at 60fps (smoothly) on a 2560x1440 display at all. I get <20fps (using Quartz Debug to measure). Even the 2011 MBPro with 1680x1050 pixel display is sluggish (30fps) once there are more than a few windows open. The issue goes away if you switch to Discrete graphics on the 2011 MBPro. But in general, animations in Lion are less smooth than they are (on the same hardware) on Leopard/Snow Leopard. I know this because i have both 2011 models to dual boot into Snow Leopard with a hack for the Leopard Expose (This now becomes ALMOST smooth).

I then went to an Apple Store and tried out all the 2012 models on display. The ONLY model that gave consistent smooth UI was a 27 inch iMac. All the MBPros and MBAirs had very slightly jerky Mission Control animation once you have more than a few windows/apps open. Irrespective of display size. The issue was worse on the retina models (obviously), but still present on the hires 1680x1050 MBPro.

I conclude that until Apple pull their finger out of their arse and rewrite the core animations so that they can give 60fps on CURRENT hardware, the only truly smooth experience in OSX today is to use: Leopard, or Buy a top end iMac, MBPro, MPro with dedicated graphics.
Try this in terminal. This made laggy Mission Control animation on my Mac mini 2011 disappear.

defaults write com.apple.dock hide-mirror -bool true;killall Dock
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Old Jul 14, 2014, 02:00 AM   #285
robertojorge
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Quote:
Originally Posted by toke lahti View Post
If there won't be new mini on Monday, can current mini run recent After Effects?
I might upgrade my CS5 AE to CS6, if I get cheap 2nd hand bargain...
It will run but with some limitations. I posted some video tests regarding the Late 2012 Mini and its performance in real world in AE, Premiere, Motion 5 and FCPX it might help you to decide if its enough for you or not.

The original thread is http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?t=1732065

Hope it helps
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Old Jul 14, 2014, 02:25 AM   #286
Silver78
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The only thing i require from mac mini graphics is ability to play 4k movies without noise, heavy power consumption and not bring the machine to its knees. If the 4000 does that ...fine...if not apple should start spitting out that new mini soon.

My mac mini money have been sitting in the bank for soooooo long.
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Old Jul 14, 2014, 04:42 PM   #287
paulrbeers
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Originally Posted by Silver78 View Post
The only thing i require from mac mini graphics is ability to play 4k movies without noise, heavy power consumption and not bring the machine to its knees. If the 4000 does that ...fine...if not apple should start spitting out that new mini soon.

My mac mini money have been sitting in the bank for soooooo long.
The Mini can not do 4k. This isn't an hd4000 issue but rather an issue with the Thunderbolt controller used in the mini is only DisplayPort 1.1 which is limited to 2560x1440. This is the same limitation in iMacs and MBAs. Mac Pros and MacBook Pros are the only 4k enabled Macs. The hd4000 can do 4k if it wasn't limited by TB.
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Old Jul 18, 2014, 11:18 AM   #288
toke lahti
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Quote:
Originally Posted by paulrbeers View Post
The Mini can not do 4k. This isn't an hd4000 issue but rather an issue with the Thunderbolt controller used in the mini is only DisplayPort 1.1 which is limited to 2560x1440. This is the same limitation in iMacs and MBAs. Mac Pros and MacBook Pros are the only 4k enabled Macs. The hd4000 can do 4k if it wasn't limited by TB.
In other words: We need new mini (and new aTV. And new ac-airPortXpress). 4k is the simplest future proof.
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