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Old Nov 19, 2012, 08:25 AM   #1
MrMister111
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Will the new iMac's have any teething probs?

I work in industry (not computer's), and know that new products come with new problems.

So as the new iMac is a redesign to be thinner, how will heat issues be? Will there be any other problems?

I want to pre-Order ASAP, but admit in a little worried on initial run, in my business I know not to buy straight away when a new product is out.

Any comments?
Cheers
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Old Nov 19, 2012, 08:27 AM   #2
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You're asking something we can't possibly know yet. Remember this is a customers' forum, we're not executives with that knowledge.
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Old Nov 19, 2012, 08:30 AM   #3
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The issue with what you're asking is that people don't really have these in hand yet. Will heat be an issue? Define issue? Apple seems to have a higher tolerance when it comes to their machines and devices heating up than the general consumer. You can likely expect that the machine will get hot due to the overall construction. Will there be any other problems? Who knows? Given Apple's current track record I guess it could be quite possible. You're looking at a Rev A machine.

You're essentially the beta tester for Apple. If you run your business and know not to buy straight away then your answer is already in your question my friend.
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Old Nov 19, 2012, 08:38 AM   #4
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Originally Posted by MrMister111 View Post
I work in industry (not computer's), and know that new products come with new problems.

So as the new iMac is a redesign to be thinner, how will heat issues be? Will there be any other problems?

I want to pre-Order ASAP, but admit in a little worried on initial run, in my business I know not to buy straight away when a new product is out.

Any comments?
Cheers
If you don't trust Apple to do right by you if there are issues, then wait. I personally am comfortable relying on the warranty and Apple's proven customer service if any issues do arise.
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Old Nov 19, 2012, 09:22 AM   #5
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The way some people talk about these new iMacs is like it is guaranteed to be sent back under RMA. It turns up at the door, get it out of the box, turn it on and and 5 minutes later, nope no good its going back to the store.

It is ridiculous that companies sell products like this, some much much worse than others. It is like they are just sending unfit products out to costumers hoping not to see too many returns and getting rid of thir dodgy pre full production units in the process.

If Apple is Apple you are paying a premium for a high quality product. So why does it seem like I am buying an Acer or something. If companies like Apple just spent more time checking their first production units more carefully for flaws then it would save so much heart ache and hundreds or returned machines. It is just not the right way to do business.
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Old Nov 19, 2012, 09:35 AM   #6
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The way some people talk about these new iMacs is like it is guaranteed to be sent back under RMA. It turns up at the door, get it out of the box, turn it on and and 5 minutes later, nope no good its going back to the store.

It is ridiculous that companies sell products like this, some much much worse than others. It is like they are just sending unfit products out to costumers hoping not to see too many returns and getting rid of thir dodgy pre full production units in the process.

If Apple is Apple you are paying a premium for a high quality product. So why does it seem like I am buying an Acer or something. If companies like Apple just spent more time checking their first production units more carefully for flaws then it would save so much heart ache and hundreds or returned machines. It is just not the right way to do business.
You wonder why people are implying that the new iMac is a time bomb waiting to explode, and then you go on to stoke the flames of this same non issue even more.
Last time I checked, not a single new iMac has been returned as defective yet. I REALLY think we should wait until they are released before the flaming begins.
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Old Nov 19, 2012, 10:06 AM   #7
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You wonder why people are implying that the new iMac is a time bomb waiting to explode, and then you go on to stoke the flames of this same non issue even more.
Last time I checked, not a single new iMac has been returned as defective yet. I REALLY think we should wait until they are released before the flaming begins.
I don't think Apple has changes their business strategy recently so we can pretty much expect the outcome. Stand in the middle of a road and you will get knocked down, it might not be the first car or the second but it will be the third. I am not a wait a see sort of person. You don't need to wait to know what is expected. If the majority of people on here how have bought Apple products in the past say they employ a given business approach then you can pretty much expect that there is going to be disappointment.

If someone was to say that no Apple take more care with their products that Acer and try to deliver the best product possible then I would be happy. But from how this thread is emerging it does not look like that is going to happen. They have the new design sorted now for the next x years. It is now time for them to get their manufacturing process in order.

So the question is how many RMA's is it going to take to get a good iMac. I trust the design to a point but I in no way have any faith in their manufacturing process.

----------

I have posted this comment elsewhere but it makes sense to post it here:

I tried to purchase a Dell Ultrasharp U2713HM 27-inch monitor this year as soon as it was available. The one that turned up had terrible back light bleeding and poor panel uniformity. That was a screen that was at first revision. I have bought other screens which have not lived up to expectations. Two lg displays that I tried out and returned also. One that had many dead pixels and the other had severe tinting issues green to red. My u2711 has been with me the whole time but that is not perfect either. I can live with it but I expect more from a screen, hence why the new iMac is so attractive.

These displays I mentioned above were both high end IPS monitors and both had serious flaws. I don't want to be buying an iMac only to find out it is going back because the screen dose not live up to my expectations. If I can see any early flaws in the new iMac the screen will be the reason for return, and given the problems they have been having with them it may be very likely the case?

I really hope Apple does just not throw products out not ready for market
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Old Nov 19, 2012, 10:06 AM   #8
lee27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MrMister111 View Post
I work in industry (not computer's), and know that new products come with new problems.

So as the new iMac is a redesign to be thinner, how will heat issues be? Will there be any other problems?

I want to pre-Order ASAP, but admit in a little worried on initial run, in my business I know not to buy straight away when a new product is out.

Any comments?
Cheers
My worry would also be heat issues when playing games with the high spec 27" iMac
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Old Nov 19, 2012, 10:15 AM   #9
MojoRisinSD
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Originally Posted by Tri-stan View Post
If I can see any early flaws in the new iMac the screen will be the reason for return, and given the problems they have been having with them it may be very likely the case?
Again, there have been no reported quality control issues with the displays. The rumor is that the lamination process has slowed down the production of the iMac (which I believe), but that has nothing to do with the LCD panel having issues.
If you are so extremely weary about the possibility of issues with the new iMac, why are you even considering buying one?
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Old Nov 19, 2012, 10:35 AM   #10
Tri-stan
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Originally Posted by MojoRisinSD View Post
Again, there have been no reported quality control issues with the displays. The rumor is that the lamination process has slowed down the production of the iMac (which I believe), but that has nothing to do with the LCD panel having issues.
If you are so extremely weary about the possibility of issues with the new iMac, why are you even considering buying one?
If Apple can't do it nobody can. I just hate doing RMA after RMA until you get a good one, it is just a total waste. As somebody said on here a bata tester, this is where the whole RMA thing comes from.

My worries with the screen are great after so many bad ones, and adding the lamination issue in to it adds to the complication so I don't know how you can disregard this. Given that I am ordering the 27inch I will be able to see how the 21.5's are going and if the complaints start rolling in I wont buy.

As soon as the 21.5's start shipping "bang" up goes a thread 21.5 iMac good or bad, title needs work. Then we will know what the diagnosis is, until then we can only make an educated guess.
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Old Nov 19, 2012, 10:39 AM   #11
Ademordna
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Originally Posted by Tri-stan View Post
The way some people talk about these new iMacs is like it is guaranteed to be sent back under RMA. It turns up at the door, get it out of the box, turn it on and and 5 minutes later, nope no good its going back to the store.

It is ridiculous that companies sell products like this, some much much worse than others. It is like they are just sending unfit products out to costumers hoping not to see too many returns and getting rid of thir dodgy pre full production units in the process.

If Apple is Apple you are paying a premium for a high quality product. So why does it seem like I am buying an Acer or something. If companies like Apple just spent more time checking their first production units more carefully for flaws then it would save so much heart ache and hundreds or returned machines. It is just not the right way to do business.
But that might cause.....a delay
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Old Nov 19, 2012, 10:41 AM   #12
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Originally Posted by Tri-stan View Post
The way some people talk about these new iMacs is like it is guaranteed to be sent back under RMA. It turns up at the door, get it out of the box, turn it on and and 5 minutes later, nope no good its going back to the store.

It is ridiculous that companies sell products like this, some much much worse than others. It is like they are just sending unfit products out to costumers hoping not to see too many returns and getting rid of thir dodgy pre full production units in the process.

If Apple is Apple you are paying a premium for a high quality product. So why does it seem like I am buying an Acer or something. If companies like Apple just spent more time checking their first production units more carefully for flaws then it would save so much heart ache and hundreds or returned machines. It is just not the right way to do business.
Why do you assume that there are typically lots of returns of new Apple products?

Forums like this one are COMPLETELY USELESS to judge the quality of a new product. The small percentage of people who have problems are MUCH, MUCH more likely to post complaints than the vast majority happy customers are to post about their experience.
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Old Nov 19, 2012, 10:46 AM   #13
63dot
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Will heat be an issue? .. really is this 1998?

You should be OK with heat at this point in Intel's roadmap.
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Old Nov 19, 2012, 10:58 AM   #14
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But that might cause.....a delay
I really hope this is the case and that the percentage of Apple's past failed releases does not become a figure for the new iMac. Not like the scratched iPhones or anything like that.

If Apple has started to learn more from their past mistakes and are really going to make a go of this one then I applaud them. If only there was an insider or greater company transparency so that we could know the job they are doing on these new products.

Quote:
Originally Posted by MeFromHere View Post
Why do you assume that there are typically lots of returns of new Apple products?

Forums like this one are COMPLETELY USELESS to judge the quality of a new product. The small percentage of people who have problems are MUCH, MUCH more likely to post complaints than the vast majority happy customers are to post about their experience.
I know this is a hard one to figure out. I guess if there was a small pool of people that bought iMacs on here they could all post in with reviews on their products, like a before and after order analysis. Things like this would be hard to achieve with the current software technology in this forum. At least if we knew some people that were buying and they came back saying it was no good we could hold off. Sacrificial lambs to the slaughter.

In some cases it was actually better to buy the latest product release. As it was with the first ps3 you actually got more functionality. The slim ps3 was a poorly built loud machine containing poor quality plastics compared to its bigger brother.
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Old Nov 19, 2012, 11:18 AM   #15
Tri-stan
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Why do you assume that there are typically lots of returns of new Apple products?
I have not ever bought an apple product and was seeking genuine user opinions on here for their products. So far nobody is particular on this thread has given good reviews for such a company, it is the same thing across this entire iMac forum. The majority of people don't have faith in buying the new Apple iMac why is that?

Another thing to point out is I have only ever had problems with display tech and have never had what I could call an excellent display even thought I was buying the most expensive products. If everybody expected as much as I did then there would be a whole lot more better produced electorinc goods. Ever since most production of goods has moved to China has the overall standard dropped.

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Will heat be an issue? .. really is this 1998?

You should be OK with heat at this point in Intel's roadmap.
I have looked over the design of the new iMac with great scrutiny and I think the design of the cooling system is much more simple and refined than past models. The new exhaust cooling blowing hot cpu/gpu air directly out of the case has major benefits as apposed to slowly letting it rise via convection out of the top slot gap.
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Old Nov 19, 2012, 01:49 PM   #16
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Originally Posted by Tri-stan View Post
I have not ever bought an apple product and was seeking genuine user opinions on here for their products. So far nobody is particular on this thread has given good reviews for such a company, it is the same thing across this entire iMac forum. The majority of people don't have faith in buying the new Apple iMac why is that?

Another thing to point out is I have only ever had problems with display tech and have never had what I could call an excellent display even thought I was buying the most expensive products. If everybody expected as much as I did then there would be a whole lot more better produced electorinc goods. Ever since most production of goods has moved to China has the overall standard dropped.



I have looked over the design of the new iMac with great scrutiny and I think the design of the cooling system is much more simple and refined than past models. The new exhaust cooling blowing hot cpu/gpu air directly out of the case has major benefits as apposed to slowly letting it rise via convection out of the top slot gap.
This is a place where people gather to bitch. It is utterly unrepresentative of Apple customers as a whole. You will find some genuine customer opinions here, but they tend to be very skewed. You can find similar places on the internet for any product or company with a significant presence in the market. The opinions are valid, but try to keep in mind that you're mostly hearing only one side of the story.

If you look for places that attempt to do unbiased measurements of product quality, Apple usually scores very well compared to the much of the computer industry. Apple also usually scores very well on customer service. But they sell millions of phones, tablets, computers etc. There will certainly be some customers who get defective ones; some of them will take to the internet with their complaints.

As for the quality of products made in China, it seems to me that the Chinese firms can make stuff with as much quality as we're willing to pay for. If you want cheap junk, you can find a firm in China that will make it at very low cost. If you want high quality and rigorous testing, you can find a firm to do that as well. Apple has apparently invested a lot of time and money helping its vendors get the equipment and training they need to make good stuff. Apple has ALWAYS made phones, iPod, iPads, etc. in China, and all their computers have come from China for many years. (In the early days Apple made stuff in the USA, but that ended before the first iPods.) They've managed to maintain a reputation for high quality for the vast majority of their products.

I don't think any of the recent iMacs have been "convection cooled". They all have fans that run at varying speeds depending on the sensor temperatures and the heat output of the system at the moment. The last couple of generations of iMacs do run "hot" (they can be very warm to the touch) but I've seen scant evidence that the heat causes any harm. The iMacs are also very, very quiet much of the time. Apple has LOTS of wiggle room to make the fans faster and noisier to keep the system cooler. They can do this after a system ships by updating the firmware. If Apple was getting lots of warranty problems caused by overheating, we'd see a lot more firmware updates to speed up the fans -- but these are NOT common.

If you're worried about significant quality problems with the new iMacs, here are my suggestions:
1. Pay less attention to sensation-driven internet sites. They aren't good sources of high-quality information.

2. Don't buy a new iMac for at least a few weeks after they ship. You'll be able to read in-depth reviews of functionality, good descriptions of the internal components and how they perform, realistic descriptions of how easy it is to open up the system and service it, etc.

3. If there's an Apple retail store near you, go look at the new iMacs when they are available. Ask questions. These are probably the same people who would help you after you buy a Mac. If there's no Apple store, try one of the resellers. You can look at the goods, but the people generally won't know as much or be as useful.

4. Buy AppleCare with your new iMac if there is any way you can afford it. You get warranty out to 3 years from the date of purchase, and you also get access to tech support for the system, Mac OS, and the bundled applications. As someone who has used Apple support from time to time, I'll say it has always been VERY good. Far better than anything I've gotten from HP, Dell, internet providers, phone companies, airlines, etc. This could be very valuable to you since you are new to the Macintosh world. Even if it's something as simple as getting help making the iMac work on your home network, you'll probably get a call back from Apple support within minutes, the person will speak English (assuming you're in the USA), and they'll know what they are talking about.
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Old Nov 20, 2012, 09:02 PM   #17
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I don't think any of the recent iMacs have been "convection cooled". They all have fans that run at varying speeds depending on the sensor temperatures and the heat output of the system at the moment. The last couple of generations of iMacs do run "hot" (they can be very warm to the touch) but I've seen scant evidence that the heat causes any harm.
Thanks for the buying advice, I think the two week period will be a good idea.

As for the heat problem on the 2011 iMac. That is how I see it now!

When I said convection cooling what I meant was that it used convection cooling assisted by fans. In the end the whole computer is cooled via a slow column of rising air which exits out of the slot gap at the top. This is a great way to cook a computer. Every component in the machine is exposed to heated air from the gpu/cpu, so during gaming this is why the entire back of the machine gets really hot. Even when you go and see one in the store just idling the back is really warm.

Heat will kill components faster than if they were ran at a cooler temperature. If you want to find out more about this there is plenty of literature comparing temperature to component failure. It is simple physics really.

As for the new 2012 iMac it exits the hot air directly out of the case via a exhaust vent, more like you would see on a laptop. You cannot buy a laptop which vents hot air inside the case as this will just cause it to heat up uncontrollably. The 2011 iMac's components are mounted vertically enabling convection to help move air through the case. It relies less on the fans meaning a quieter running computer. Technology has improved since the design of the last iMac and they don't need to compromise the cooling system by relying on convection as a good way to exhaust heat.

I like the asymmetric fan blades on new macs which reduce the perceived sound, now that is clever.
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Old Nov 21, 2012, 04:53 AM   #18
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No one knows if there will be issues and all this hypothesising regarding the new iMacs internal design is just.....well hot air. Firstly we'll have to wait for the first teardown when the iMac is released and then, unless there are any immediate issues (yellow screen anyone?) it's likely to be several months before real world usage highlights flaws in the new iMacs design.

It's a tricky one as the smart money is to avoid REV A releases as there is an increased likelihood that issues that were not identified prior to release will be ironed out by the time you get to REV B (which I predict will be a far shorter cycle than this last one). On the other hand if you need a new computer then bite the bullet, however it may be prudent to wait a months or so to see what new owners are reporting and allow the production line to truly get up to speed in manufacturing these machines.
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Old Nov 21, 2012, 05:04 AM   #19
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I'd just like to have a New iMac to have some issues with, end of. This wait is killing me on so many levels.

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Old Nov 21, 2012, 06:45 AM   #20
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Originally Posted by MrMister111 View Post
I work in industry (not computer's), and know that new products come with new problems.

So as the new iMac is a redesign to be thinner, how will heat issues be? Will there be any other problems?

I want to pre-Order ASAP, but admit in a little worried on initial run, in my business I know not to buy straight away when a new product is out.

Any comments?
Cheers
Nothing is perfect - sure you can buy a product and it turns out to be defective, but companies (Apple) should have a quality control process. You should not concern yourself with all the whining that occurs on this forum. If we all follow the logic not to buy until a product has been on the market for six months a company would not make any sales.
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Old Nov 21, 2012, 09:18 AM   #21
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Without seeing a product you can not tell whether it will be good or bad. Past products from the company may give you an idea of what to expect but with so many things in the design changing it is a 'who knows' area.

The safe path with any new product is to wait unless you absolutely HAVE to have something the moment it is released. The people that will buy a given product right away are mostly power users on the bleeding edge. They are the best ones to stress test it so let them go first. If they are not running into overwhelming issues in a month or so you can be pretty confident in being safe. If they are the company will fix things (it is not like the repairs are free to them) and you will find out from those initial users when it is safe to go back in the water.
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Old Nov 21, 2012, 09:34 AM   #22
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....companies (Apple) should have a quality control process.
The emphasis is on the word "should", not always the case and Apple have let things slip on certain aspects in the past and in the present.

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Originally Posted by IGregory View Post
....If we all follow the logic not to buy until a product has been on the market for six months a company would not make any sales.
Well, yes obviously but we know it doesn't work like that, still that's good for those who like to see how things pan out with a new design / engineered model. Considering the "difficulties" Apple have apparently had to overcome in producing this iMac if the need for an iMac wasn't great I would give it a month or two to see if anything comes up and they find their feet with regards to manufacturing process. If you really can wait then get the improved REV B (September 2013 with Haswell chip set?). Saying all this if the need for an iMac is overwhelming then jump in.

As a side note, as much as I like Apple products I can personally vouch that they are not so great at putting their hands up to poorly implemented design / engineering when there is overwhelming evidence that an issue exists.
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Old Nov 21, 2012, 11:47 PM   #23
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That is exactly the reason why I stopped waiting and ordered Macbook Air which will be mymain machine until sometime next summer.

I don't want to play beta bunny for Apple and possible issueswhere I have tosend my iMac back and forth with all my data on it.


I will wait until it is released, the first problems sorted, the first Apple software updates are done, the first experience with Fusion drive is received and the first people took it apart and put it back together.

Summer 2013 will be a good time to get one I reckon and that's the time I will aim for one.

Until then the MBA (13"/ 8GB RAM/ 128GB SSD/ i5) will work well for me.

cheer

p.s. By the way, when I checked here in Dubai in the Virgin Store where they still display the old iMacs and I touched the backside of one I nearly burned myself (maybe not as hot), but it was really hot on the top and I am really concerned how the new one will behave in this matter.
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