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Old Oct 9, 2012, 08:21 AM   #51
iGav
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The UP! certainly looks like a decent competitor to the fiat but also doesn't look like it is available in the US yet.
It's a better car than the 500. I've yet to read a review that says that the Up! is anything other than the best small car on sale. Often by quite a margin, though that unfortunately includes the price too... unless you order the poverty spec version, which suits the ideology of the car perfectly if you ask me.

Autoblog have written one of the more comprehensive reviews that I've read so far, it's interesting seeing an American's view of the car. They seem to get it completely though.

I'd be surprised if VW weren't considering taking it stateside, you guys seem to be embracing small hatches more & more with each passing year. I wonder if VW are simply waiting to see whether 500 sales are sustained or whether they're simply a short term fad?

The only criticism I have of the Up! is that VW weren't brave enough to stick with the original concept, I think the production model suffers for being toned down, lacking the circular wings mirrors, wheel design and entirely glazed rear hatch. None of which would've been anymore costly to mass produce.


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Old Oct 9, 2012, 09:45 AM   #52
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Nice bum on that.
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Old Oct 9, 2012, 06:15 PM   #53
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Nice bum on that.
A veritable 'glass arse with class'

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Old Oct 9, 2012, 06:44 PM   #54
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I owned the X1/9 and 128SL many years ago, and loved those cars. The problem was (and probably still is) is that they're Fiats. Which means unreliable, in need of constant repair, and prone to rust out on an accelerated schedule.
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Old Oct 10, 2012, 12:28 AM   #55
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According to Top Gear, it's one of the best city cars you can buy now. I had one as a loaner when my car got stolen and it had absolutely no power whatsoever but I still had fun driving it.

And the best part was that I was moving during the process. And yeah it's tiny but I was able to fit a bunch of small stuff and a full sized road bike in the car, of course the wheel had to be taken off. Great on gas and I was smashing the foot pedal to the ground almost non stop.

Anyone who says it's a crappy car probably has never driven it and are use to driving big american chevy boats. Fiat owns Ferrari, Chrysler, Dodge and a few more companies. They may have sucked in the 80s, but now they know what they're doing.


Also, there's the Abarthe version coming out, or probably is out now. Turbocharged, if you can afford it try checking that out :], probably is available only in stick though.
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Old Oct 10, 2012, 03:28 AM   #56
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I would love an abarth but that is a bit pricey for what I'm looking for. I doubt I could lease one for $200 a month with zero down.
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Old Oct 23, 2012, 03:35 AM   #57
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The 500 is without a doubt, the best small car you can buy. I reluctantly say small, because it is actually very deceptive, with internal space other small cars like the Mini can only dream of.

Get one. Now.

We just got the 2012 lounge model, and it is very nice to drive.
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Old Oct 23, 2012, 06:53 AM   #58
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We just got the 2012 lounge model, and it is very nice to drive.
Judging by the street look, they should have a washroom model.
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Old Oct 23, 2012, 09:59 AM   #59
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Cool, I didn't have to bump my own thread! =)

I am trying to find someone to teach me to drive a manual...might grab the lease deal before January.

Trying to decide whether or not I like the mint green color. I like the interior...

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Old Oct 23, 2012, 11:04 AM   #60
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I've never driven one, only sat inside it but I badly want to get the North American 500 Abarth. Looks a lot sportier than the standard and 60% more hp and ~70% more torque.

Something to consider that price is an issue is a 500 Turbo comes out pretty soon in NA, which is half way between a standard 500 and the abarth. Nicer styling, the more sport suspension etc. and a single turbo instead of the dual turbo in the Abarth makes for 135hp which should help. In the EU it's just the standard 500 Abarth I believe while the North American Abarth is the EU Abarth Essesse (confusing.. )
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Old Oct 23, 2012, 06:17 PM   #61
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I like the interior...
I think I remember something like that in my dentist's office, minus the steering wheel.

Oh well, to each his own I guess.
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Old Oct 26, 2012, 09:08 AM   #62
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I think I remember something like that in my dentist's office, minus the steering wheel.

Oh well, to each his own I guess.
It's a little too cutesy, like they're trying too hard. Nissan did the retro-simplicity thing better with their Pao/Figaro Pike Factory projects 20 odd years ago.
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Old Oct 28, 2012, 10:42 PM   #63
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I looked into those out of curiosity. The fuel economy was less than impressive. Even if I could afford one, I'd rather keep my Toyota Echo. (shut up)

The Ford C-max has me interested, but that's far more expensive. Oh well, I don't need to own it to appreciate it for what it is.
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Old Oct 28, 2012, 10:49 PM   #64
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I looked into those out of curiosity. The fuel economy was less than impressive. Even if I could afford one, I'd rather keep my Toyota Echo. (shut up)
Hehe ... what??

Just kidding. Toyota Echo 2002 was the first car I ever drove Awesome cars.
I agree about the fuel economy. I think its about 30 MPG combined? Pretty poor for such a car, I think.
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Old Oct 28, 2012, 11:23 PM   #65
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I have on '03. The prior models had that weird beak in the front. A friend of mine jokes that he could start that engine will a pull cord. I got 42 mpg on it when I bought it, and that was at 90k. NOTHING was maintained on that car but tires and oil. I changed the belt, put on new tires (I don't care that those were new already. Coopers are loud and grip like crap.) put in new spark plugs, air filter, engine mounts, brakes, rear suspension, added a remote start, bluetooth radio and cruise control.

Still don't regret it. It's far better than the Hyundai Accent I sold. I hated that damn thing. Awful, terrible car.

But my fuel economy dropped after all of this work. All I have left is a small EVAP leak I cannot find and a bent rear axle.

If anyone knows where I can find a replacement axle....

/threadjack over
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Old Oct 29, 2012, 06:06 PM   #66
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I thought fiat got good mileage. 38-40 from what I've read. Why do you think it's poor fuel?
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Old Oct 30, 2012, 09:55 AM   #67
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I thought fiat got good mileage. 38-40 from what I've read. Why do you think it's poor fuel?
Because 38-40 isn't particularly great for such a small car.

In imperials they've been getting about 35mpg for the 1.4 and similar for the TwinAir, both of which are almost half the official combined figures given by Fiat.

All it does is highlight the unsuitability of relatively low capacity petrol engines in increasingly heavy cars. I know it seems counter-intuitive, but these type of cars would benefit more from either larger engines or forced induction.

Because of their lack of low-end torque, small petrol engines are at their least efficient when you have to rinse them to keep up with normal traffic flow, which is the reason why turbo diesels are so good in small cars, because they often make peak torque from about 1500-1800 rpm which is what you need in daily driving, whilst nearly doubling mpg figures with almost equivalent performance.

Apparently, and incredibly, the 1.4 500 doesn't produce peak power until 6000rpm, which is a faintly absurd when you think about it… in fact at 3500rpm it only produces 59bhp, or 14.75bhp per person if there's 4 in the car… that's not a lot of power.

To put it into context a BMW 520d ED, a car not all that far off of double the size and weight, is almost capable of nailing 30mpg more in the real world. That's how bad the 500's figures really are.

Of course, if you're coming from a car that does mid-20's then 30-40 will probably be considered an improvement.
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Old Nov 21, 2012, 08:07 AM   #68
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I'm going to do a test drive on Black Friday. I haven't bought a car in a long time. The salesman mentioned they were trying to meet quotas and there is a deal to be made. Any advice? It's not like me to go out and just buy a car but if the price is right on Black Friday, I might just do that.
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Old Nov 21, 2012, 10:32 AM   #69
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I'm going to do a test drive on Black Friday. I haven't bought a car in a long time. The salesman mentioned they were trying to meet quotas and there is a deal to be made. Any advice? It's not like me to go out and just buy a car but if the price is right on Black Friday, I might just do that.
There's a whole wealth of Google searching you can do about how to buy and negotiate for a car. I guess the bottom line is go in there informed, know what you want, know how much it should cost (Edmunds etc.), figure out a fair price that you are willing to pay, and be willing to walk away if you feel like you're losing control. They're going to try very hard to get you to buy that day. They're going to say things like "I can only guarantee that price today, if you come back tomorrow ... *shrug*" or "This unit might be gone by tomorrow". Or they'll agree to your price, and then when you go to sign the contract you'll notice the $300 extra fee they "forgot" to tell you about. Be prepared to stop at any of these points and walk away if you're not comfortable. So be it. There will always be more.

I wish I could justify two cars. I'd love to have a Fiat 500 as a daily commuter and fun car to zip around in, then something larger for the days I need to haul cargo, bikes, etc.
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Old Nov 21, 2012, 12:18 PM   #70
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I owned the X1/9 and 128SL many years ago, and loved those cars. The problem was (and probably still is) is that they're Fiats. Which means unreliable, in need of constant repair, and prone to rust out on an accelerated schedule.
Fiats could still have those problems, but I would not assume what was experienced 30 years ago is what you will experience today. BTW, I had both 71 and 82 Fiat 124s and they both ran well.
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Old Nov 25, 2012, 06:54 PM   #71
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Fiats could still have those problems, but I would not assume what was experienced 30 years ago is what you will experience today. BTW, I had both 71 and 82 Fiat 128s and they both ran well.
That beloved monicker for FIAT, "fix it again tony" seems just as popular and accurate today as 30 years ago. It didn't just appear out of nowhere. You must have had the opposite of the lemon affect... incredibly good luck.
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Old Nov 25, 2012, 06:57 PM   #72
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That beloved monicker for FIAT, "fix it again tony" seems just as popular and accurate today as 30 years ago.
In German it is "Fehler in allen Teilen", "errors in every part", but then again, almost every car has such "charming" translations.
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Old Nov 25, 2012, 07:09 PM   #73
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In German it is "Fehler in allen Teilen", "errors in every part", but then again, almost every car has such "charming" translations.
Interesting... the Germans had their own version for Italian auto engineering. I'll remember this.
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