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Old Mar 21, 2013, 03:50 AM   #176
Kr00
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Quote:
Originally Posted by iGrip View Post
The Australian government warned that using Apple Maps data could be deadly. That's pretty extreme. The bad data likely has caused other problems that have not risen to an official warning from a major country's government.

Yes indeed, the underlying mapping data Apple is using is bad. It does NOT Just Work. Indeed, if you trust it to just Work, you could end up dead.
Wrong. Victoria Police warned about trusting any mapping service. The Mildura incident was one, but Victoria Police also warned about using Google maps as well.

Again, it was local police, not the Australian government, and it was Google maps as well. Nobody used the term "deadly" either, although in the Google maps case it was said that there were "some near fatal incidents". Still, nothing like using manufactured hyperbole to troll a website I suppose.

----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by CShort View Post
In Australia nearly all govt. websites use flash. If you want to do your tax you need to install flash. I'm assuming America will still be similar.
The real question is what percentage of Apple's OSX Mac's *don't* have flash installed.
Another wrong assertion. The ATO has no flash content at all, and to do your tax online, you have to download and install a windows only program, i.e.: not for OSX or Linux. No flash content there either. What other lies would you like tested here? BTW, haven't needed flash for 3 years now. Only porn sites or juvenile gamer sites use flash. Which one do you go to?

Last edited by Kr00; Mar 21, 2013 at 04:12 AM.
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Old Mar 21, 2013, 04:08 AM   #177
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Originally Posted by chorner View Post
Seems there might only be two of us that I can see here on the forums lol

I love Apple products but I call ********* on the whole Flash sucks and runs like a pile of crap. The truth is mobile devices weren't powerful enough to properly support a run-time plugin as powerful as Flash at the time and instead of admitting that the processing and graphics power just wasn't there yet, they concocted a ******** rant on how HTML5 is the amazing future and Flash needs to die. For video and cleaning up HTML and CSS standards I say great. For rich interactive content "HTML5 canvas" can suck it by comparison with Flash and the authoring tool for allowing the development of interactive mixed with data driven content.

Way to take a step backwards and try to eliminate a powerfully creative tool for the net instead of working together to improve things. Morons. Apple needs to focus on improving its graphics subsystem because its buggy and outdated as hell. That'd fix the "Flash" problems.
By "powerful" you mean power hogging right? Coz that it was, chewing up CPU by up to as much as 80% on Macs and even worse on Linux. Adobe showed such contempt for Linux users, it employed one coder, ONE!!! for Linux flash player.

Mobile Flash support was dropped because it was rubbish, that's all Adobe know what to do. If it were THAT great, wouldn't it be on all those shinny new android devices we keep hearing about here?

Flash content may have changed in the last 20 years, but flash, itself, has not. Using a flash wrapper to stream video content, via hardware acceleration (turning your cpu into a furnace) IS 20 year old technology. Web content doesn't need hardware acceleration to run. Bad web plugins do. Don't pat adobe on the back for being so arrogant and lazy. It doesn't help us, the users. But, its moot now. Flash will be gone soon enough. Come into the 21 century. Adobe might follow you.
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Old Mar 21, 2013, 04:20 AM   #178
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Originally Posted by unlinked View Post
If Flash is crashing your iMac there is a problem with your iMac or OS X. Normal user programs shouldn't ever be able to crash a machine.
I'm sure he means crash Safari. Flash will only crash the browser, not the system. All applications are sandbox from the system. But as of Safari version 5, it won't crash, it will give an alert stating that flash has crashed, Safari will disable the plugin, then you'll have to restart Safari to run flash again. Why a plugin needs, or even deserves such resources is just mind blowing. So last century thinking. For what? Video streaming?
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Old Mar 21, 2013, 04:23 AM   #179
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kr00 View Post

Mobile Flash support was dropped because it was rubbish, that's all Adobe know what to do. If it were THAT great, wouldn't it be on all those shinny new android devices we keep hearing about here?
People naturally tend to support things that are supported by 100% of the market. When that was Flash it was Flash and when it is HTML5 it will be HTML5.


Quote:
Web content doesn't need hardware acceleration to run.
Why does Webkit support hardware acceleration then?
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Old Mar 21, 2013, 04:24 AM   #180
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Frobozz View Post
The entire Adobe Edge platform exists to produce HTML5 content and applications.
I agree.
Why wouldn't you try to defend your market leading horse business,
while you are secretly developing a car?
It's the clever thing to do.
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Old Mar 21, 2013, 06:55 AM   #181
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All A players? Please...

Apple has it's share of "bozos", just like every other giant corporation. Its not whether everyone you hire is "A" player, its whether you can get the best out of everyone you hire. Many people that appeared to be "A" players at Apple, left and were "B" or "C" players in other organizations because by themselves they could not overcome the inherent dysfunction and work as effectively as they could at Apple.

Of course Apple also has many "A" players, and they do what they can to keep them, and the organization is tilted in such a way that their "A" players can affect the corporate work environment in positive ways.
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Old Mar 21, 2013, 07:10 AM   #182
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Let's first get the facts straight

Quote:
Originally Posted by cybaster View Post
Comparing flash to objective-C is like comparing Apples to airplanes.
Flash is a platform and Objective-C is a programming language. And I don't know what you mean by things running much better and smoother in flash because if you are talking about web apps vs phone apps then again its not even a proper comparison. If you are comparing flash apps (web "apps" running on the android or other mobile platforms) vs native apps (written in Objective-C) then I have no idea where you've been for the past 5-6 years.

Again, comparing Apples to Airplanes, in flash you use things like action scrips and such, which is a bastardized version of javascript (which even javascript is hardly a "GOOD" programming language). Compared that to XCode, the development environment that help launch over 800,000+ apps on the app store, not counting the Mac App Store Apps AND all the apps that preceeds the mac app store. Yeah I'm sure all those developers (including myself) hates XCode and wish we were using flash.
Okay, I'm not expecting to settle this discussion, but let's at least get a few facts straight.
Of course the term Flash is confusing. It is not a programming language. Duh, it's a platform, the development IDE or a player, depending on the context.
ActionScript3 is the language that you could compare to Objective-C. But if you really think it's a bastardized version of Javascript, I kinda know enough... You probably looked at Flash 10 years ago when people made shape tweens and site intros.
  • AS3 is a mature, fully typed language like Java. It follows the ECMAScript standard (which is why it looks like JS to you) and a syntax most common amongst many programming languages.
  • Objective-C is the odd one here with a flat folder structure, square bracket function calls, mixins of C++ and NextStep prefixes for even the most common datatypes like NSString.
  • I know hundreds of developers and nobody used the Flash IDE for development. They use Eclipse or IntelliJ, tools that are used for other languages too, including (drumroll) Objective-C (AppCode).
  • Flash isn't great for mobile and multi-touch. Fair enough. There's still tons of games and apps in the AppStore that were coded in Flash. Plenty of reasons for that, including better frame based animation and cross-platform compilation.

Anyway, as I said, let's just get some facts straight. I know this discussion is kinda old, but if you are working in new media and development as I am, I'm sure you don't mind learning a few new facts.

Last edited by micros; Mar 21, 2013 at 07:11 AM. Reason: Fixed bullets
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Old Mar 21, 2013, 08:13 AM   #183
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Quote:
Originally Posted by micros View Post
Okay, I'm not expecting to settle this discussion, but let's at least get a few facts straight.
Of course the term Flash is confusing. It is not a programming language. Duh, it's a platform, the development IDE or a player, depending on the context.
ActionScript3 is the language that you could compare to Objective-C. But if you really think it's a bastardized version of Javascript, I kinda know enough... You probably looked at Flash 10 years ago when people made shape tweens and site intros.
  • AS3 is a mature, fully typed language like Java. It follows the ECMAScript standard (which is why it looks like JS to you) and a syntax most common amongst many programming languages.
  • Objective-C is the odd one here with a flat folder structure, square bracket function calls, mixins of C++ and NextStep prefixes for even the most common datatypes like NSString.
  • I know hundreds of developers and nobody used the Flash IDE for development. They use Eclipse or IntelliJ, tools that are used for other languages too, including (drumroll) Objective-C (AppCode).
  • Flash isn't great for mobile and multi-touch. Fair enough. There's still tons of games and apps in the AppStore that were coded in Flash. Plenty of reasons for that, including better frame based animation and cross-platform compilation.

Anyway, as I said, let's just get some facts straight. I know this discussion is kinda old, but if you are working in new media and development as I am, I'm sure you don't mind learning a few new facts.
Bravo - thank you for informing the Apple fanatics out there (who don't have a clue about Flash beyond their experience as a 'player') that Flash is actually a platform, product family name, a media playing app, etc. Is it confusing? Certainly. But it's definitely not a POS that many fanatics love to believe just because SJ waged war against it.

The anti-Lynch comments on here, by folks who have never met him personally or professionally, show rather bad behavior. It's this kind of over-the-top unjustified judgement that makes me cringe. As a long time Apple user (on iOS and OS X devices), I really wish there were a way to filter out the fanatics vs. those who actually have thoughtful, educated, and rational opinions.
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Old Mar 21, 2013, 08:26 AM   #184
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Originally Posted by Anonymous Freak View Post
I don't know about where you work, but at three mid-to-large companies I've worked for, the CTO is *NOT* in direct charge of engineering. At my current company, "evangelist" is probably the best description of him! (The VP of Research & Development is the one in charge of engineering, and he reports directly to the CEO.)
Okay? But aren't we talking about Adobe?

Quote:
He also oversaw Adobe’s research and experience design teams and was, as Adobe puts it, in charge of “shaping Adobe’s long-term technology vision and focusing innovation across the company during a transformative time.”
http://venturebeat.com/2013/03/19/ad...edsOEZl8O4v.99
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Old Mar 21, 2013, 09:27 AM   #185
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Even Tim Cook is starting to get contested among Apple workers
http://www.glassdoor.com/50-Highest-Rated-CEOs.htm
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Old Mar 21, 2013, 11:18 AM   #186
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Quote:
Originally Posted by maddog97 View Post
Kevin Lynch wasn't following top-down direction on the Macromedia/Flash kool-aid trip - he was the one creating and promoting it within the company. Name one thing the guy has done that's been forward thinking or give one example of his successful vision. He was at Adobe for a 15 plus years - yet not a single project he touched was successful or visionary. As CTO at Adobe, Adobe has been stagnant and completely missed the HTML 5/AJAX revolution while they were busy licking their own butts over the Flash eco-system that never materialized. Love it or hate it doesn't matter, Flash never took over the world like Kevin dreamed it would and wasted countless dollars and man hours in doing so. I fear what his impact will be at Apple. Guaranteed he'll drive them to mediocrity. I can't believe that with all of Apple's resources and money this is the best they could do. Not a good sign for things to come. RIP Apple.
I couldn't agree more. Adobe product quality, sales, and innovation have all plummeted as a result of Lynch's "leadership" at Adobe. ADBE stock hasn't moved in 8 YEARS as a result. As many at Adobe will tell you, Macromedia bought Adobe with Adobe's own money. Putting someone like that in a leadership position at Apple signifies the beginning of the end for Apple.
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Old Mar 21, 2013, 11:22 AM   #187
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Who cares what Gruber has to say? That guys a bozo himself and his opinion is irrelevant and unimportant.
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Old Mar 22, 2013, 10:58 AM   #188
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It wasn't so much that Flash was bad. It was more the fact that trying to cram a piece of software into a web browser was a bad experience. Flash as a development language and platform is very powerful and can now almost equal objective c in terms of performance. Flash can now run all graphics and 3D content 100% on the gpu.

Now that Flash has shifted gears to app development it is finally where it was always meant to be. Before mobile devices however the web was the only decent delivery option. As a developer I am glad I don't have to shoehorn my custom applications into a webpage and can now have a decent delivery method as a stand alone app.

I still stand by the fact that most of the issues people hate about bad Flash performance and clunky user experiences will happen regardless of the technology used in the browser. We will always see the same horrendous amateur sad excuses for programming methods on the web regardless of which technology is used. Flash itself wasn't the problem but the fact that anybody with no programming background could use it and they abused the heck out of it. In the right skilled hands Flash can be a full fledged programming language.

Besides if Apple was smart they would create an easier development environment to create apps. Who better to lead that effort then somebody in charge of Flash at Adobe. Think iWeb for apps but with an actual development language. There are already tools such as Flash, Corona and others that are light years easier to create native apps that are slowly taking away the relevance of developing in an objective c environment which costs a lot of money and takes a lot of time and talent.
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