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Old Jun 9, 2014, 12:22 PM   #51
MacNut
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Originally Posted by SLC Flyfishing View Post
The thing is this...students can't actually afford to pay more. No matter the interest rate, the principle is just too high for most degrees these days.

The government needs to put a smaller cap on loan funds available per student. Then the schools will know they can't gouge the students like they did before. Tuition will drop like a rock.

Colleges have what amounts to essentially a blank check from the government. My schools tuition goes up each year, and the school adjusts the "cost of attendance" accordingly. Once that's done, I'm somehow magically eligible for more federal student loan debt.

The school knows that all they need to do is raise tuition, and the students (government) will be good for it.
The system is rigged in favor of the colleges. They know that they can never out price tuition. People need college, or so they are told. But once they are deep in debt was it really worth it? College is too expensive, rather than make loans easier to get lets get the costs lower so everyone has a shot at a higher eduction. Why should I have to be rich to get a education.
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Old Jun 9, 2014, 12:29 PM   #52
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Why should I have to be rich to get a education.
Because that's how plutocratic/oligarchic systems work. We're on the fast track there.
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Old Jun 9, 2014, 12:45 PM   #53
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Originally Posted by vega07 View Post
Your shtick is getting severely tiring.
That is the perfect word. And I agree with the sentiment.

It's a carbon copy of a poster on another forum I used to visit, and the circumstances seem to be about the same. Very interesting case study.
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Old Jun 9, 2014, 01:24 PM   #54
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That is the perfect word. And I agree with the sentiment.

It's a carbon copy of a poster on another forum I used to visit, and the circumstances seem to be about the same. Very interesting case study.
It appears that someone else thinks the way that I do. No surprise.
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Old Jun 9, 2014, 01:34 PM   #55
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It appears that someone else thinks the way that I do. No surprise.

I wouldn't call it thinking as you just regurgitate talking points from the RNC. I do admire your ability to stay on message though.
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Old Jun 9, 2014, 01:42 PM   #56
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Originally Posted by turtle777 View Post
It's the lesser of the evil.

We all know the government will meddle, not matter what.
this would minimize the damage.

-t
This wouldn't minimize any damage, instead, it would create a class-driven system for degrees. Wealthy students could afford to get degrees in education, while other students would be directed toward "economically viable" degrees.

The problem with the system is students can borrow far more than they can support, there's decreasing availability for grants and GA positions, and the system allows for corporations to administer the loan.

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Actually, doing a little research I discovered the title to the thread is incorrect. Obama didn't sign a bill to lower student loan interest. Remember, he don't need no stinkin' Congress. He's got a pen and a phone.

First, he will sign an Executive Order, not a bill.

Second, he didn't lower the interest for students. What he did was cap the maximum payment to 10% of a former student's income.

It's another example of the President attempting to write or rewrite without being in the Congress. The students still owe the money, no break there, they just cap how much of their money they will take each month. So they will owe it longer.
Right. This is a half-step measure from the President because Congress is stalled and is unwilling to do anything for students.
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Old Jun 9, 2014, 02:08 PM   #57
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The problem with college is that they set the rules. It is all feeding the machine. Corporations and colleges work together. Everyone is making money but the students.
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Old Jun 9, 2014, 02:22 PM   #58
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This wouldn't minimize any damage, instead, it would create a class-driven system for degrees. Wealthy students could afford to get degrees in education, while other students would be directed toward "economically viable" degrees.
.
You're funny. I mean it.

It's utterly genius to turn this into a class-warfare issue.

-t
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Old Jun 9, 2014, 02:53 PM   #59
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It appears that someone else thinks the way that I do. No surprise.
The story is in the details. If you want to compare yourself to that guy, go right ahead...but it doesn't paint a very rosy picture.

----------

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The problem with college is that they set the rules. It is all feeding the machine. Corporations and colleges work together. Everyone is making money but the students.
So if corporations can't/won't fix it, and colleges can't/won't fix it, and students can't fix it....then who can fix it? Oh, the group of people that your people say can't do anything right. Huh. Well, we're in a dilly of a pickle, right here.
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Old Jun 9, 2014, 02:54 PM   #60
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Originally Posted by samiwas View Post
The story is in the details. If you want to compare yourself to that guy, go right ahead...but it doesn't paint a very rosy picture.

----------



So if corporations can't/won't fix it, and colleges can't/won't fix it, and students can't fix it....then who can fix it? Oh, the group of people that your people say can't do anything right. Huh. Well, we're in a dilly of a pickle, right here.
Who are my people? Americans? I guess we truly are screwed then.
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Old Jun 9, 2014, 03:49 PM   #61
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You're funny. I mean it.

It's utterly genius to turn this into a class-warfare issue.

-t
Yeah, I'm pretty brilliant.

Of course, people often try to paint an argument as "class warfare" in an attempt to create an ad hominem, hoping the other party will immediately back peddle.

But, I accept the label and I think it's an accurate short-hand for your argument.

You argued previously that the government could distort a market and then immediately turned around and demanded that the government distort the market—illustrating that it's not distortions that people mind, it's that the market might curve away from their interests.

If the government only gives out loans to engineering students, then anyone who needs a loan to get through school will be a engineering student regardless of their relative success or aptitude at the subject.

This isn't the government's role to distort the education at hundreds of public and private universities. Instead, the government should be there to provide some funding with limits based on first 10 years of income for post-grads and limited to colleges that have low retention and post-graduate success rates.
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Old Jun 9, 2014, 04:21 PM   #62
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Don't forget about the 20 year rule too. I guess the taxpayers pick this up.

"We have one example of someone who might look similar to an MBA student. He starts out with a starting salary of $90,000 and, by the end of 20 years, is making $243,360. Under the old IBR program, he’ll have paid $409,445 by year 25 and be forgiven $23,892 of his loan balance. Under the new [PAYE] plan, he’ll pay less than half of that, or $202,299, and be forgiven $208,259 by year 20."

http://www.businessweek.com/articles...ashes-payments
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Old Jun 9, 2014, 04:24 PM   #63
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Originally Posted by Southern Dad View Post
I notice the headline give Barack all the credit.

Better?

Obama proposes new student loan refinancing that will deny college graduates the character-building experience of crippling debt.
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Old Jun 9, 2014, 04:33 PM   #64
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It's not just the loans.

Students need to be making smart choices on the schools they are choosing.

NYU is charging $21,236.00 per semester, which is about $170,000 of debt upon graduation if you do 100% loans.

That is absolute lunacy when you consider most students are not working toward a STEM, or medical related degree, and will never be able to earn enough money to pay that level of debt.

And student loan debt is inescapable. One semester alone at Fordham, which is $48,840 is more debt than the majority of the nation will ever be able to pay.

Teach your kids to go to Penn State, Texas A & M, Virginia Polytechnic, Auburn, U of U, or any number of schools where the ROI is highest outside of Ivy League.
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Old Jun 9, 2014, 05:56 PM   #65
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Originally Posted by hulugu View Post
Yeah, I'm pretty brilliant.

Of course, people often try to paint an argument as "class warfare" in an attempt to create an ad hominem, hoping the other party will immediately back peddle.

But, I accept the label and I think it's an accurate short-hand for your argument.

You argued previously that the government could distort a market and then immediately turned around and demanded that the government distort the market—illustrating that it's not distortions that people mind, it's that the market might curve away from their interests.

If the government only gives out loans to engineering students, then anyone who needs a loan to get through school will be a engineering student regardless of their relative success or aptitude at the subject.

This isn't the government's role to distort the education at hundreds of public and private universities. Instead, the government should be there to provide some funding with limits based on first 10 years of income for post-grads and limited to colleges that have low retention and post-graduate success rates.
I'm not sure where you're going with this.

What you're essentially saying is:

"It's unfair that only wealthy students would be able to study a degree that has negative payback in regards to future earnings or employment potential".

-t
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Old Jun 9, 2014, 06:07 PM   #66
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I'm not sure where you're going with this.

What you're essentially saying is:

"It's unfair that only wealthy students would be able to study a degree that has negative payback in regards to future earnings or employment potential".

-t
It's only unfair if that's a situation created by the government by picking and choosing one degree over another, which was my problem with your original argument.

The government's interest should not be to get a loan quickly returned, but rather to encourage students to earn degrees they could not afford without help. The loan should be easy to manage, cheap, and dischargeable should circumstances like a changing job market require it.

It's worth noting that the US government could just fund students directly through grants and save money over our current loan system, which allows banks to make profits without the associated risk. If you want to understand the problem, you'll look at how banks have manipulated the student loan system (and are currently gaming it ala the housing market) rather than attacking the liberal arts schools.
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