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Boot Mac SE from Zip Drive

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benproiii

macrumors newbie
Original poster
Feb 26, 2013
4
1
I have a Mac SE original version that has no HD or floppy drive I also have a SCSI ZIP Drive and a ATAPI ZIP Drive in a PowerMac G3. I tried to format a 100MB ZIP disk on the PowerMac with FWB Hard Disk ToolKit 4.0 and copy a System Folder from System 6.0.8 on it. I put the zip disk in the Mac SE SCSI Zip Drive and it won't boot, I have termination on and SCSI ID set to 6, it is plugged into the motherboard with a 50-pin ribbon cable (same one used for the HD). I think that it wont boot because of the FWB Toolkit media drivers as I read online that only the IOMEGA 4.2 drivers allow the ZIP disk to boot the Mac.
I tried using the 4.2 drivers but they are incompatible with the ATAPI version of the ZIP drive. I thought that if someone with a 100MB ZIP disk formatted with the 4.2 drivers could dd (copy block by block) the disk and upload it online and I could copy the raw image into the zip disk and then it would boot the Mac, would that work??
 
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havokalien

havokalien

macrumors 6502a
Apr 27, 2006
649
51
Kelso, Wa
Not positive

If I remember right, and when I get some rest after I work tonight ill try it, the driver for the zip must be on the disk in the system folder. Also hard drive must be removed from the SE or it will fail (unplugging cable should be fine). If its the dual floppy version you should have at least one floppy that works. Only thing is the Mac uses MFS and its why you need a driver for it, but it may still need formatting to work. Ill let you know after I get done messing around with mine tomorrow.
 
MacTech68

MacTech68

macrumors 68020
Mar 16, 2008
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Australia, Perth
IIRC, Iomega mucked about with putting drivers onto the Zip Disk and NOT putting drivers onto the disk.

It depended on which Iomega Zip Tools version was used to format the disk.

If you use the Iomega Zip Tools 3.5.3 to "Format with Surface Verify", then it should place the driver as an invisible driver partition on the Zip Disk.

You MUST use the Iomega Zip Tools to format the disk. This is the only way to get the driver onto the disk. Also, make sure the disk is HFS-Standard format and NOT HFS+ (or HFS-Extended).

Note that Iomega Zip Tools was later renamed to IomegaWare - the two are different, and IomegaWare NEVER puts a driver onto the disk.

The other thing you may need to do, is to put the Zip Disk into the drive and apply power to the Zip Drive BEFORE you power on the Mac. This allows the Zip drive to have the Iomega SCSI driver ready to pass to the Mac when the Mac polls the drive.

I'm not sure if this will run on the G3 you have, but here is Iomega Zip Tools v3.5.3
 
B

benproiii

macrumors newbie
Original poster
Feb 26, 2013
4
1
Those ZIP tools are not compatible with the ATAPI Zip Drive, it says not detected. Could someone with a ZIP Disk formatted with 4.2 drivers use FWB Toolkit (or anything else that will copy the low level format) to create a block for block copy of the disk, upload it here and I can restore it onto a blank ZIP and that should install the 4.2 drivers on the disk, would that work?
 
MacTech68

MacTech68

macrumors 68020
Mar 16, 2008
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Australia, Perth
benproiii said:
Those ZIP tools are not compatible with the ATAPI Zip Drive, it says not detected. Could someone with a ZIP Disk formatted with 4.2 drivers use FWB Toolkit (or anything else that will copy the low level format) to create a block for block copy of the disk, upload it here and I can restore it onto a blank ZIP and that should install the 4.2 drivers on the disk, would that work?
Click to expand...

Sorry about that - my bad, I should have thought of that.

Just a quick check;

Make sure the FWB extensions are disabled and the Zip extensions are enabled.

Otherwise, if havokalien is unable to help, I might be able to get something cranked up here to get you the FWB block image.
 
B

benproiii

macrumors newbie
Original poster
Feb 26, 2013
4
1
Another way I was thinking might work to startup the Mac SE is to get a Adaptec SCSI PCI Card put it in my Windows XP comp plug the SCSI Zip Drive into that then use BasiliskII to connect to the SCSI Zip Drive and format it in the emulator with the 4.2 drivers, do you think that would work?

The SCSI card I have is the Adaptec Ultra2 SCSI LVE/SE PCI Card AHA-2940U2B its the Mac Version but it should still work in the PC

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MacTech68 said:
Sorry about that - my bad, I should have thought of that.

Just a quick check;

Make sure the FWB extensions are disabled and the Zip extensions are enabled.

Otherwise, if havokalien is unable to help, I might be able to get something cranked up here to get you the FWB block image.
Click to expand...

I tried doing that (disable FWB extensions and enable Zip extensions) but at startup it has a red X through the IOMEGA extension icon.
 
MacTech68

MacTech68

macrumors 68020
Mar 16, 2008
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benproiii said:
Another way I was thinking might work to startup the Mac SE is to get a Adaptec SCSI PCI Card put it in my Windows XP comp plug the SCSI Zip Drive into that then use BasiliskII to connect to the SCSI Zip Drive and format it in the emulator with the 4.2 drivers, do you think that would work?

The SCSI card I have is the Adaptec Ultra2 SCSI LVE/SE PCI Card AHA-2940U2B its the Mac Version but it should still work in the PC.
Click to expand...

What G3 PowerMac do you have? G3 Blue & White or a Beige G3 Desktop/MiniTower?

The Mac version 2940 should work on a PCI PowerMac. Also, what system version is the G3 running?

I'm a little confused as to why you don't use the card in the G3 PowerMac with the SCSI drive and format the disk that way. :confused:
 
B

benproiii

macrumors newbie
Original poster
Feb 26, 2013
4
1
MacTech68 said:
What G3 PowerMac do you have? G3 Blue & White or a Beige G3 Desktop/MiniTower?

The Mac version 2940 should work on a PCI PowerMac. Also, what system version is the G3 running?

I'm a little confused as to why you don't use the card in the G3 PowerMac with the SCSI drive and format the disk that way. :confused:
Click to expand...


I don't actually have a Powermac g3 I just got the scsi pci card from it I have a Imac g3 but they don't have a pci slot
 
R

rgfrfe

macrumors newbie
Jun 28, 2014
1
0
Reading and Writing to Zip Disk in OS 10.8.5 to OS 8.6

Yes, you heard correctly...to 8.6! Long story short, I had a client that needed to use Zip disks (100mb), on OS 10.8.5 as well as 8.6 (Beige G3). Disks formatted in "Standard" format, cannot be written to in 10.8.5 (just read). Disks formatted "Extended" format with Disk Utility on 10.8.5, could not be read on OS 8.6 (wanted to initialize it). After an hour or so, figured out we needed to format the zip disks in 10.4.11 (on a G4 with Disk Utility), extended format, then we could read and write on the other OS's. Just FYI for those who would ever need to go through that process. Thanks.
 
T

tdiaz

macrumors 6502
Feb 7, 2006
477
73
HFS+ from 10.8 vs. 10.4 shouldn't make a difference, unless the type of partitioning is incorrectly specified for the target. The default setting may have changed along the course of releases.
 
Johnny365

Johnny365

macrumors 6502a
Nov 30, 2015
925
468
Sorry to bump this, but I'm in the same situation. The Zip Tools link above is for Windows and not Mac OS 9.
 
Johnny365

Johnny365

macrumors 6502a
Nov 30, 2015
925
468
What do I do with them? I thought it was Zip Tools 3.5.3 (the actual program) but it's a bunch of icons that say [PC] in the middle and I don't know how to format a zip disk in Mac OS 9 (even tried OSX 10.4.11) if there is no program associated with it?
 
Johnny365

Johnny365

macrumors 6502a
Nov 30, 2015
925
468
Thanks. So I got it installed. When I open Workshop it says this:

Version 3.5.3 of the Iomega Workshop cannot load. Make sure the Bernoilli is properly connected and the power switch is on. Refer to the 'Error Messages' section of the Iomega Software Manual.

What that mean?
 
MacTech68

MacTech68

macrumors 68020
Mar 16, 2008
2,393
209
Australia, Perth
Well, looks like that version is for Bernouli drives - besides, If you're running OS 9 you should use Iomega Driver Installer v4.3 or the completely re-arranged/rewritten IomegaWare v1.1.3 IIRC.

My bad for skimming your post. Apologies. :(

Sadly, my home server is offline with a crapped-out power supply and I can't look through my notes, but IIRC Iomega Installer v4.3 was the last version that writes a driver to the Zip disk - Then, Iomega re-wrote it as "IomegaWare" and started from version 1 again.

Reformatting with Iomega Tools (included in Iomega Install v4 and higher) allows a reformat with surface test (which is the only way Zips should be formatted IMHO). I can't recall if the Iomega Tools supplied with IomegaWare includes that functionality but I believe it does.

At some point (driver version 4.3 I think) support for ATA Zip drives was added to the driver.

Bare with me as I'm running tests via SheepShaver emulation without a Zip drive so my advice comes from experience over 15 years ago. :(
 
Last edited:
Johnny365

Johnny365

macrumors 6502a
Nov 30, 2015
925
468
I am trying to use the software on a USB Zip Drive and tried it with my iBook Clamshell. Will try with iMac G3 later today. I think it may be the USB Zip Drive interface that is causing the problem? But I do have a SCSI Zip Drive that is for the Mac SE, but don't have any other computer that would connect using the SCSI interface, hence USB.
[doublepost=1483798867][/doublepost]
MacTech68 said:
Well, looks like that version is for Bernouli drives - besides, If you're running OS 9 you should use Iomega Driver Installer v4.3 or the completely re-arranged/rewritten IomegaWare v1.1.3 IIRC.

My bad for skimming your post. Apologies. :(

Sadly, my home server is offline with a crapped-out power supply and I can't look through my notes, but IIRC Iomega Installer v4.3 was the last version that writes a driver to the Zip disk - Then, Iomega re-wrote it as "IomegaWare" and started from version 1 again.

Reformatting with Iomega Tools (included in Iomega Install v4 and higher) allows a reformat with surface test (which is the only way Zips should be formatted IMHO). I can't recall if the Iomega Tools supplied with IomegaWare includes that functionality but I believe it does.

At some point (driver version 4.3 I think) support for ATA Zip drives was added to the driver.

Bare with me as I'm running tests via SheepShaver emulation without a Zip drive so my advice comes from experience over 15 years ago. :(
Click to expand...


Okay, I'll troubleshoot it more later whew. lol
 
MacTech68

MacTech68

macrumors 68020
Mar 16, 2008
2,393
209
Australia, Perth
Johnny365 said:
I am trying to use the software on a USB Zip Drive and tried it with my iBook Clamshell. Will try with iMac G3 later today. I think it may be the USB Zip Drive interface that is causing the problem? But I do have a SCSI Zip Drive that is for the Mac SE, but don't have any other computer that would connect using the SCSI interface, hence USB.
[doublepost=1483798867][/doublepost]


Okay, I'll troubleshoot it more later whew. lol
Click to expand...
Ok, for the iBook with USB Zip drive try the "Mac OS 8.6-9.2.2" download on this archive.org page

https://web.archive.org/web/20030826232727/http://www.iomega.com/software/ioware402mac_thanks.html
 
Johnny365

Johnny365

macrumors 6502a
Nov 30, 2015
925
468
Okay, so I've been trying the better part of a few weeks now. Either the systems I have are misssing extensions or this/that, and it won't let me format the Zip Drive with the files listed here.

I even tried reformatting with Mac OS 9.2 (Macos9lives) and I guess the CD I used keeps failing when trying to open the instalation, or my CD Drive in the iBook G3 Clamshell is going bad (keeps spinning up/down eventually failing after a while-music cds work perfectly fine).

I just need a Zip Disk with Mac OS 6 and 7. Can you or anyone else do the special format and put those files on and send the disk to me?
 
MacTech68

MacTech68

macrumors 68020
Mar 16, 2008
2,393
209
Australia, Perth
I can't help with a physical disk - sorry about that. :oops: :(

I'm intrigued about your clamshell ibook.

If you go into the control panel "Extensions manager" and select "MacOS 8.6 All" from the "Selected set" pop-up, it should warn you if any extensions are missing. If that's ok, then reboot and install the iomegaware 4.0.2 from the previous post and reboot again.

The tray loading CD drives are pretty much well-known for failing - there could be other reasons for the spin-up spin-down problem. Do you have a different brand of CD-R that appears to be a darker color ?
 
Johnny365

Johnny365

macrumors 6502a
Nov 30, 2015
925
468
I bought another Mac SE with a 20MB SCSI HDD and a FDHD (1.44MB Floppy) and at first the HDD wouldn't work, but I opened it up and now it spins and works perfectly. I'll keep it like that for the time being.
 
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