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Old Jun 4, 2008, 06:48 PM   #1
andrewdale
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Best RAID 1 Hard Drive

Hi Everyone,

I have a question for everyone who has ever bought or is going to buy a RAID 1 system for backups. My wife is a professional photographer and recently, I've just began wondering how terrible things would be if her external were to fail. True, it wouldn't be the end of the world, but it would hurt some feelings and probably ruin her reputation. So, I figured we could get her a RAID 1 system and have at least 2 copies at all times of the data.

My question is: What is the best RAID 1 drive for me to get her?

We don't want to spend a ton of money, but we don't want to buy some cheap crap. We want a 1TB (2x500GB) for a total of 500GB of storage. I'd prefer not spend much over $500 for this, but I know that's asking a lot, maybe. Preferably, I'd like it to be a metal enclosure, as these plastic ones just scare me. I'd prefer that it have at least FW400, but FW800 would be nice.

These are a few I've seen:
http://westerndigital.com/en/product...sp?driveid=409
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16822154221
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16822101088

Those are just a few that I've seen. Any advice would be great. I wanted to look into the G-Safe, but it seems they're all out. Any idea where I could get one? Or is it worth it?

Thanks for the help. Remember. RAID 1. Not RAID 0. Thanks!
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Old Jun 4, 2008, 06:52 PM   #2
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Your problem is that when you have both drives of the RAID1 in one chassis, then if the power supply or the bridge board of the case fails, then both your original and your backup are equally ^^&&&ed.

RAID 1 is not backup. If she accidentally overwrites a file, it is just as gone on the mirror as on the original.

A better plan would be to get two separate drives, and set up SuperDuper, CarbonCopyCloner or (on 10.5) Time Machine to make scheduled, periodic backups.
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Old Jun 4, 2008, 07:04 PM   #3
andrewdale
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Originally Posted by CanadaRAM View Post
RAID 1 is not backup. If she accidentally overwrites a file, it is just as gone on the mirror as on the original.

A better plan would be to get two separate drives, and set up SuperDuper, CarbonCopyCloner or (on 10.5) Time Machine to make scheduled, periodic backups.
I'm not asking for a backup of overwriting files. She's not going to do that. I'm asking for something that is a backup in case ONE drive fails. I guess the Time Machine could work, but I'd prefer something that saved in real-time.
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Old Jun 5, 2008, 08:16 AM   #4
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Originally Posted by andrewdale View Post
Anyone else have any help/ideas?
RAID1 is *not* a substitute for backing up your data!! If you're making regular backups of your data, you don't have much to worry about when it comes to data loss.

What you gain with RAID1 is availability. In the event a drive fails while you're working, you can simply keep working when you have RAID1 vs. having to stop your work to restore from backup.

There are several nice RAID1 firewire enclosures available at otherworldcomputing.com and they also sell nice single-drive firewire enclosures that you can use for backing up your data. CarbonCopyCloner is an easy tool for making backups.
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Old Jun 5, 2008, 09:17 AM   #5
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So, you're telling me that buy having information on TWO drives isn't a form of backup? Tell me how that's so. As far as I know, if she has two copies of the data at all times, that's a pretty amazing backup without having the trouble of having to back it up manually.
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Old Jun 5, 2008, 09:51 AM   #6
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Any of those the Lacie drives should be fine but remember in RAID 1 you will only have half the stated capacity. Though I would stay away from the Cavalry drive it has a pretty low customer rating.

Quote:
Originally Posted by CanadaRAM View Post
Your problem is that when you have both drives of the RAID1 in one chassis, then if the power supply or the bridge board of the case fails, then both your original and your backup are equally ^^&&&ed.
CanadaRAM makes a good point here. I would say if you want RAID 1 then you should be using two separate enclosures. Normally I would say buy an enclosure and combine it with a hard drive yourself but given the price of FW800 enclosures and hard drives it cost just about the same to get a premade unit. The only difference is when you build yourself you get to choose both parts.

For externals you may consider two of these Fantom 500GB HD's.

If you want a single unit then instead of the 1.5TB Lacie you can get this 2TB Western Digital My Book for about the same price.

However have you considered going to the next level and build a NAS using RAID 5 then you can have redundancy and speed. You just start with one of these and add 3 hard drives or if you want to have more expandability you can get a four bay unit. With a NAS you can keep it in another room or a closet then you do not have to listen to it when at the iMac you can connect it directly by gigabit ethernet or through a gigabit router/switch and the NAS would be available to any other computers on the network for file storage.

Now if you are the kind of person who likes to tinker with stuff and want to save money on a NAS you could build one yourself by getting a decent case and PSU ~$75, a good motherboard that supports RAID 5 with 6 SATA ports and integrated graphics(the Intel ICH9R has good performance) ~$130, for ~$35 you can get a 35Watt 1.6 Ghz Single Core Intel Celeron CPU which is more than enough for NAS, 1 GB DDR2 memory $25, DVD drive to install the OS $25 and Linux Free. Then 3 or more matching hard drives of the capacity you need.

$290 for a do it yourself NAS base that can handle up to 6 drive in RAID 5.
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Old Jun 5, 2008, 10:55 AM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by andrewdale View Post
So, you're telling me that buy having information on TWO drives isn't a form of backup? Tell me how that's so. As far as I know, if she has two copies of the data at all times, that's a pretty amazing backup without having the trouble of having to back it up manually.
Hi Andrew,

A RAID1 device will provide you with a recovery path in the event that a single drive fails.

However, in the event of catastrophic failure where both drives are in jeopardy (such as a fire, accidentally taking a dive off the desk, power supply failure, writing bad data, liquid spill) you have no recourse.

That's why you were given two excellent suggestions to back up your data. This typically consists of a separate media device (HD, DVD) that is maintained off-site as well as a scheduling application to initiate the backup and manage deltas.

Since you were asking for suggestions, here's my setup:

Newer Technology Guardian Maximus 1TB RAID1:
http://eshop.macsales.com/shop/firewire/usb/raid_1/Gmax

Jungle Disk (network backup to Amazon S3):
http://www.jungledisk.com/

Jungle Disk is very slow (due to my network connection) but very inexpensive. Plus there's the assurance of high reliability and high availability because it's Amazon's infrastructure. I only backup my photos to Jungle Disk to keep things manageable.

Hope this helps.
j
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Old Jun 5, 2008, 11:24 AM   #8
andrewdale
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Originally Posted by dgtlchild View Post
Hi Andrew,

A RAID1 device will provide you with a recovery path in the event that a single drive fails.

However, in the event of catastrophic failure where both drives are in jeopardy (such as a fire, accidentally taking a dive off the desk, power supply failure, writing bad data, liquid spill) you have no recourse.

That's why you were given two excellent suggestions to back up your data. This typically consists of a separate media device (HD, DVD) that is maintained off-site as well as a scheduling application to initiate the backup and manage deltas.

Since you were asking for suggestions, here's my setup:

Newer Technology Guardian Maximus 1TB RAID1:
http://eshop.macsales.com/shop/firewire/usb/raid_1/Gmax

Jungle Disk (network backup to Amazon S3):
http://www.jungledisk.com/

Jungle Disk is very slow (due to my network connection) but very inexpensive. Plus there's the assurance of high reliability and high availability because it's Amazon's infrastructure. I only backup my photos to Jungle Disk to keep things manageable.

Hope this helps.
j
Thank you, so much for this. This is the kind of thing I think would suit us great. I agree with you about keeping backups off site in case of a disaster or something of that sort. Jungle Disk is inexpensive and that's our favorite words as newlyweds and as young adults. Thanks for your advice.
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Old Jun 5, 2008, 11:35 AM   #9
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What about a Drobo? Would that do what the OP is asking for? I'm thinking about getting one of those sometime soon.
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Old Jun 5, 2008, 02:17 PM   #10
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What about a Drobo? Would that do what the OP is asking for? I'm thinking about getting one of those sometime soon.
I bought a Drobo yesterday. I'm returning it today.

I installed a drive in it and formatted it OK. Then I updated the dashboard software to the latest version. This caused me to have to re-initialize the disk again (I'm glad I had no data on it). Then I updated the Drobo firmware to the latest version, which put the Drobo into a continuous reboot cycle. Nothing but a factory reset would get it out of the reboot cycle, which means I had to initialize the disk again (still glad I had no data on it). Once the initialize finished, the Drobo went into a continuous reboot cycle again. Another factory reset, initialize, and continuous reboot cycle, and I've had enough. There's no way I'm trusting my data to it, so it's going back.
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Old Jun 5, 2008, 02:22 PM   #11
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I use time capsule along with http://mozy.com/ for daily automatic offsite backups. That way if my house catches on fire or i get robbed, i don't lose any important data. It's very nice. The initial backup takes a long time (depending on your upload speed) but after the initial backup, only new and changed files are updated so its nice and quick.
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Old Jun 5, 2008, 04:45 PM   #12
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@ASFx - Thanks for the tip regarding Mozy.

I've been meaning to setup some kind off-site backup - your post prodded me to do so. Most all the reviews of Mozy I read rated it highly. I just signed up to give it a try. If it functions well for me, it will definitely be worth the $5 per month (per computer, unlimited storage space).
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Old Jun 5, 2008, 04:50 PM   #13
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Originally Posted by bobbleheadbob View Post
What about a Drobo? Would that do what the OP is asking for? I'm thinking about getting one of those sometime soon.
Drobo doesn't use a traditional RAID - it uses its own proprietary data striping scheme, which strikes me as an excessively risky choice for the average computer user... if something goes wrong, you are tied to Drobo and their software, and data recovery could be much more difficult.
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Old Jun 5, 2008, 06:09 PM   #14
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Originally Posted by Kriggely View Post
@ASFx - Thanks for the tip regarding Mozy.

I've been meaning to setup some kind off-site backup - your post prodded me to do so. Most all the reviews of Mozy I read rated it highly. I just signed up to give it a try. If it functions well for me, it will definitely be worth the $5 per month (per computer, unlimited storage space).
If you pay 2 years in advance, mozy gives you a discount too. I paid $103.95 for 2 years of unlimited storage which is about $15 less than if i paid monthly.
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Old Jun 5, 2008, 07:27 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by andrewdale View Post
Hi Everyone,

I have a question for everyone who has ever bought or is going to buy a RAID 1 system for backups. My wife is a professional photographer and recently, I've just began wondering how terrible things would be if her external were to fail. True, it wouldn't be the end of the world, but it would hurt some feelings and probably ruin her reputation. So, I figured we could get her a RAID 1 system and have at least 2 copies at all times of the data.

My question is: What is the best RAID 1 drive for me to get her?

We don't want to spend a ton of money, but we don't want to buy some cheap crap. We want a 1TB (2x500GB) for a total of 500GB of storage. I'd prefer not spend much over $500 for this, but I know that's asking a lot, maybe. Preferably, I'd like it to be a metal enclosure, as these plastic ones just scare me. I'd prefer that it have at least FW400, but FW800 would be nice.

These are a few I've seen:
http://westerndigital.com/en/product...sp?driveid=409
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16822154221
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16822101088

Those are just a few that I've seen. Any advice would be great. I wanted to look into the G-Safe, but it seems they're all out. Any idea where I could get one? Or is it worth it?

Thanks for the help. Remember. RAID 1. Not RAID 0. Thanks!

http://www.drobo.com/offer/
Check out this link, It's the one I bought
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Old Jun 21, 2008, 05:28 PM   #16
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Having a 2-drive RAID1 where your Time Machine data resides can hardly be a bad idea. It is just one more step in peace of mind. If your backup drive fails, well, you have a duplicate.

For further peace of mind (to protect from fire, theft, flood, tornado, 3-year olds, etc.) periodic off-site storage or something like Mozy also makes sense.

I think it is all about having a plan that takes into account reasonable prediction of potential problems.

If you have multiple levels of protection, then you significantly mitigate your risk.

Remember, something like 85% of people have NO backup at all. Just having a Time Machine backup or a SuperDuper! clone of your hard drive puts you light years ahead of them in your risk management. Having a more systemic plan, all the more so.
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Old Aug 24, 2008, 03:36 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dgtlchild View Post
Hi Andrew,

A RAID1 device will provide you with a recovery path in the event that a single drive fails.

However, in the event of catastrophic failure where both drives are in jeopardy (such as a fire, accidentally taking a dive off the desk, power supply failure, writing bad data, liquid spill) you have no recourse.

That's why you were given two excellent suggestions to back up your data. This typically consists of a separate media device (HD, DVD) that is maintained off-site as well as a scheduling application to initiate the backup and manage deltas.

Since you were asking for suggestions, here's my setup:

Newer Technology Guardian Maximus 1TB RAID1:
http://eshop.macsales.com/shop/firewire/usb/raid_1/Gmax

Jungle Disk (network backup to Amazon S3):
http://www.jungledisk.com/

Jungle Disk is very slow (due to my network connection) but very inexpensive. Plus there's the assurance of high reliability and high availability because it's Amazon's infrastructure. I only backup my photos to Jungle Disk to keep things manageable.

Hope this helps.
j
I've read that Newer Technology really emphasizes the fact that this drive is hardware Raid 1. I'm familiar with how software and hardware raid work on computers, but not in enclosures. Is hardware raid better? When enclosures are hardware raid?
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Old Jun 13, 2013, 02:39 PM   #18
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Guardian RAID-1 drives

http://eshop.macsales.com/shop/firewire/usb/raid_1/Gmax
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Old Jun 13, 2013, 03:29 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CanadaRAM View Post
Your problem is that when you have both drives of the RAID1 in one chassis, then if the power supply or the bridge board of the case fails, then both your original and your backup are equally ^^&&&ed.

RAID 1 is not backup. If she accidentally overwrites a file, it is just as gone on the mirror as on the original.

A better plan would be to get two separate drives, and set up SuperDuper, CarbonCopyCloner or (on 10.5) Time Machine to make scheduled, periodic backups.
A very wise post.

Backing up data using a dual drive "box" should not be done in RAID but an asynchronous fashion. Either you back up to each drive separately or, you back up to one then schedule backups of your backup drive. Each method has its pros and cons. I would suggest the latter so that there is always a before and after delta of data at a given time. In short you would back up your data. If all is fine then back up the back up. If there is a problem then the last back up of the back up should have files that can be accessed and retrieved.

Mac ---> backup 1 --- backup 2
If the Mac or backup 1 has an issue with a file, then the previous "backup 2" ideally should have data you can retrieve.

Mac----- backup 1
------backup 2
If either drive goes bad, you still have a backup

Mac ---- RAID 1
similar to dual backups but more subject to RAID issue/failures. A good RAID box for mirroring is less subject to errors and mechanical problems than a cheap solution.

The alternative of course is a bit more complex but a good option too - do a backup and then duplicate the backup only when there are changes to the original volume. Having more than one backup available for data retrieval is the key. You might end up with 2-4 backup each slightly different based on changes made on the original drive or by schedule. This is similar to the old fashion "tape rotation" method.

I am sure some will suggest Time Machine which has its pros and cons too.


Last - a safe bet is to also store data away from home in case of catastrophic events but that might be taking it a bit too far.
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Old Jun 14, 2013, 12:56 AM   #20
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I think it would be better to use the disks individually than doing a raid 1. Something like, disk B is the backup for disk A.
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Old Jun 14, 2013, 04:45 AM   #21
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Right on, a raid 1 or 5 or 10 is NOT a REPLACEMENT for a backup

Quote:
Originally Posted by CanadaRAM View Post
Your problem is that when you have both drives of the RAID1 in one chassis, then if the power supply or the bridge board of the case fails, then both your original and your backup are equally ^^&&&ed.

RAID 1 is not backup. If she accidentally overwrites a file, it is just as gone on the mirror as on the original.

A better plan would be to get two separate drives, and set up SuperDuper, CarbonCopyCloner or (on 10.5) Time Machine to make scheduled, periodic backups.

i7-4650U

http://www.cpu-world.com/Compare/872..._i7-4650U.html

Specifications of Intel Core i7-4650U and i5-4350U CPUs

http://www.cpu-world.com/Compare/872..._i7-4650U.html

Core i7 4650U
http://cpuboss.com/cpu/Intel-Core-i7-4650U

Intel® Core™ i7-4650U Processor
(4M Cache, up to 3.30 GHz)

http://ark.intel.com/products/75114/...up-to-3_30-GHz

http://www.cpu-world.com/Compare/861..._i7-4650U.html



Sent from my iPad



i7-4650U

http://www.cpu-world.com/Compare/872..._i7-4650U.html

Specifications of Intel Core i7-4650U and i5-4350U CPUs

http://www.cpu-world.com/Compare/872..._i7-4650U.html

Core i7 4650U
http://cpuboss.com/cpu/Intel-Core-i7-4650U

Intel® Core™ i7-4650U Processor
(4M Cache, up to 3.30 GHz)

http://ark.intel.com/products/75114/...up-to-3_30-GHz

http://www.cpu-world.com/Compare/861..._i7-4650U.html



Sent from my iPad

----------

You want/need a hardware Raid, but this is NOT a REPLACEMENT for a solid back-up and recovery plan.


Originally Posted by CanadaRAM
Your problem is that when you have both drives of the RAID1 in one chassis, then if the power supply or the bridge board of the case fails, then both your original and your backup are equally ^^&&&ed.

RAID 1 is not backup. If she accidentally overwrites a file, it is just as gone on the mirror as on the original.

A better plan would be to get two separate drives, and set up SuperDuper, CarbonCopyCloner or (on 10.5) Time Machine to make scheduled, periodic backups.

----------

You want/need a hardware Raid, but this is NOT a REPLACEMENT for a solid back-up and recovery plan.


Originally Posted by CanadaRAM
Your problem is that when you have both drives of the RAID1 in one chassis, then if the power supply or the bridge board of the case fails, then both your original and your backup are equally ^^&&&ed.

RAID 1 is not backup. If she accidentally overwrites a file, it is just as gone on the mirror as on the original.

A better plan would be to get two separate drives, and set up SuperDuper, CarbonCopyCloner or (on 10.5) Time Machine to make scheduled, periodic backups.
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Old Jun 14, 2013, 06:10 AM   #22
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Lacie 2big is a good option. The drives are hot swappable.

http://www.lacie.com/us/products/product.htm?id=10573

I use a 2big in Raid 0 (practically SSD speeds but with 4tb of space) as a projects drive and then backup internal drive and the Lacie to a slower USB3 drive.
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