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Old Oct 15, 2013, 01:08 PM   #51
Eraserhead
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Really? They killed 87 million of it's own people and you call that good. Perhaps you are a lobby for them.
Source?
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Old Oct 15, 2013, 01:25 PM   #52
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...and it would be very easy to stop china in war simply by nuking them.
Yea that would easily stop them... but before contact they unleash their arsenal. Then the Allies retaliate on each other and we are left with one ravaged planet.

Using Nuclear Weapons would end up like a Mexican Standoff. Everyone waiting with their itchy finger on the trigger, then all the sudden everyone gets shot.
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Old Oct 15, 2013, 01:25 PM   #53
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Originally Posted by Eraserhead View Post
Source?
http://real-agenda.com/2012/02/23/de....BfMWyg2H.dpbs

It's fairly common history knowledge that China has a very bloody history in the past 70 years. As did other communist nations. Such as the Soviet Union.
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Old Oct 15, 2013, 01:34 PM   #54
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http://real-agenda.com/2012/02/23/de....BfMWyg2H.dpbs

It's fairly common history knowledge that China has a very bloody history in the past 70 years.
I didn't make it clear before, but what I was really getting at was the 85 million which seems really rather high. Wikipedia's high estimate for the Great Leap Forward is 45 million, and the more realistic figures seem to be up to 33 million. Then in the Cultural revolution maybe up to 3 million were killed.

So we're talking at most 50 million deaths, and probably more realistically 35 million or so, both of which are a lot lower than 85 million (albeit only by a factor of two).
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Old Oct 15, 2013, 01:51 PM   #55
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Originally Posted by Eraserhead View Post
So we're talking at most 50 million deaths, and probably more realistically 35 million or so, both of which are a lot lower than 85 million (albeit only by a factor of two).
I'd say once you reach a certain point, it's all an atrocity. 35 million dead is certainly "better" than 85 million from a purely objective standpoint, but it doesn't change the fact that millions of people died from widespread famines and mass killings.
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Old Oct 15, 2013, 02:05 PM   #56
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... it doesn't change the fact that millions of people died from widespread famines and mass killings.
True, but I don't think he was disputing that.

He was just questioning the number.

Accuracy counts.

Last edited by citizenzen; Oct 15, 2013 at 02:12 PM. Reason: forgot a 'he'
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Old Oct 15, 2013, 02:08 PM   #57
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Originally Posted by Eraserhead View Post
I didn't make it clear before, but what I was really getting at was the 85 million which seems really rather high. Wikipedia's high estimate for the Great Leap Forward is 45 million, and the more realistic figures seem to be up to 33 million. Then in the Cultural revolution maybe up to 3 million were killed.

So we're talking at most 50 million deaths, and probably more realistically 35 million or so, both of which are a lot lower than 85 million (albeit only by a factor of two).
85 million is too high, but, if you take the highest estimate for the Great Leap Forward, plus the highest estimate for the cultural revolution, and, give Mao credit for some of the 10M-20M who died during WWII as well, you can get close. Then add in some credit for trouble Mao contributed to in neighboring countries in the region.

Interesting that we can discuss the untimely death of 33 million, or was it 100 million people, each one of which was someone like ourselves. History is brutal.
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Old Oct 15, 2013, 02:14 PM   #58
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Originally Posted by jnpy!$4g3cwk View Post
Interesting that we can discuss the untimely death of 33 million, or was it 100 million people, each one of which was someone like ourselves. History is brutal.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tragedy_(event)
Joseph Stalin said, "One death is a tragedy, one million deaths is a statistic."[3]
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Old Oct 16, 2013, 11:12 AM   #59
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Oookay.

But what would be the point of that? Do you really want Afghanistan? Do you want it with all the infrastructure destroyed? Do you want it destroyed and irradiated?

Help me out, because I'm baffled by the very thought that "wiping everybody out" could ever be an answer to anything.
I'm not advocating a return to Roman scorched earth policies. I'm saying we made a choice and one of the consequences of that choice was people shooting back at us. More aggressive options have more aggressive consequences. We were unwilling to pay those prices so we are paying this one.


Quote:
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Interesting that we can discuss the untimely death of 33 million, or was it 100 million people, each one of which was someone like ourselves. History is brutal.
Instability is brutal. One of the 'problems' of a stable society is that as the people who remember what instability looks like die off, those of us who remain are increasingly willing to temp it into happening again.
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