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Old Jun 29, 2013, 08:17 AM   #101
bobob
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Quote:
Originally Posted by golgo1313 View Post
you should know that one shouldn't ever buy a first run production model of anything apple.
All other manufacturers' first run production models are 100% problem free!
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Old Jun 29, 2013, 08:20 AM   #102
fatefulwhisper
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I get flickering with VMware and Windows 7; but there's a workaround. Goto Virtual Machine -> Settings -> Keyboard and Mouse -> Click "General" on the top -> Choose "Always detect mouse for gaming"

Mouse moves a bit slow, but the flickering has stopped. Hopefully VMware sends a patch soon.

Credit: http://communities.vmware.com/thread...art=0&tstart=0
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Old Jun 29, 2013, 10:46 AM   #103
Kenrik
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A few notes:

I was a Art Director for many years (Now I'm a iOS Engineer) We used to run Photoshop all day long on 2ghz Dual Mac Pro G5s with a benchmark of 2k vs the 6.8k of the new Macbook Air. Regardless of what Adobe wants you to believe photoshop has not advanced much from CS2 - CS6. Heck I go one step further.. we used to run Photoshop on a 266mhz Clamshell Tangerine iBook.

I.E. Macbook Airs are more then enough for PS.

Only 500-600 users are you high? There are millions of people using Photoshop and the Apple/Photoshop User ratio is even higher. I would not be surprised if this affected 20 - 30k people.

I have an appointment at the Burlingame Apple Store today - I have Wifi Issues, This screen flicker and my battery only lasts 7 hours.
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Old Jun 29, 2013, 11:11 AM   #104
dysamoria
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lkrupp View Post
I've never paid attention to this sort of stuff and have never been jumpy about buying an Apple product. Never, in my over 30 years of using Apple products have I EVER experienced any of the glitches reported by that ethereal "some users" crowd. The instantaneous nature of the Internet these days makes stuff like this look common when it is not.
The nvidia GPU defect in the older MacBook Pro line was considerably common. If not for the Internet and affection given to it, lots of consumers would never know why their machines failed. Like myself. Sadly, mine died a year or two after replacement parts were still available.

Information freedom helps consumers overall. There needs to be higher expectation of reliability in computer tech in general. It's not acceptable the way things are... though the industry has most people thinking things are just fine as is because of indoctrination ("computers are too complex to make them big free"... nonsense).
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Old Jun 29, 2013, 11:14 AM   #105
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thenk83 View Post
Mine doesn't flicker but at random times the screen shuts off like it went to sleep and I have to login. It's super random. Sometimes all I do is move the mouse or click something and it'll just go to sleep. Sometimes I'm just reading.
This might be a OSX 10.8.4 issue.... I noticed this happening on my MacBook pro (hooked up to a cinema display) a few times lately.
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Old Jun 29, 2013, 02:08 PM   #106
mw360
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dysamoria View Post
The nvidia GPU defect in the older MacBook Pro line was considerably common. If not for the Internet and affection given to it, lots of consumers would never know why their machines failed. Like myself. Sadly, mine died a year or two after replacement parts were still available.

Information freedom helps consumers overall. There needs to be higher expectation of reliability in computer tech in general. It's not acceptable the way things are... though the industry has most people thinking things are just fine as is because of indoctrination ("computers are too complex to make them big free"... nonsense).
There comes a point when its cheaper to replace a number of faulty units than it is to over-engineer and over-design to eliminate all potential problems. Whether Apple are at that point is unknown since neither you nor I have the figures to state whether the current situation is acceptable.
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Old Jun 29, 2013, 02:09 PM   #107
flux73
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mchoffa View Post
yes and yes
To me that suggests it's a software issue - either driver or the application. From other people's posts, it's looking more and more like an Adobe issue.

I'm not aware of any non-Adobe apps causing this problem?
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Old Jun 29, 2013, 02:30 PM   #108
Larry-K
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Originally Posted by kahkityoong View Post
You must be easily amazed then.
Only by pointless comments.
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Old Jun 29, 2013, 05:43 PM   #109
xamp
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I don't have an Air but I'm sure the two respective companies will figure this out soon enough. I just wanted to reply to toneLA here.

Quote:
Originally Posted by toneLA View Post
Makes you wonder whether the so-called Adobe staff member Chris Cox, deliberately tries to sabotage Apple saying they can't reproduce the issue in house. I was successfully able to do it myself with 5 machines total in less than 2 hours.
That's pretty paranoid. What would his motivation be? Hatred for a platform that helps provide his paycheck and is critical for the success of the application and company that he works for?

I think it's simply that the Air's that they have in their offices don't exhibit this behavior. If it's as widespread as you report, then they should be able to reproduce the problem as they expand their testing.

Quote:
Originally Posted by toneLA View Post
I find the way that Chris Cox (who's nothing more than a condescending prick) handled the whole thing on their forums completely lame. Instead of blaming Apple, when clearly he's no software engineer (probably a customer service rep)...
You're uninformed here. It appears Chris isn't just a customer service rep. Instead, he's a senior engineer with a long standing history on the Photoshop team. So much so that he was inducted into the Photoshop Hall of Fame a few years ago by NAPP

http://photoshophalloffame.com/inductees/chris-cox/

Dude has almost 15,000 posts on the Adobe forums and clearly goes out of his way trying to help customers. Cut him some slack! Show me a single apple developer with that much commitment to their community forums! Heck, do Apple employees even post at all on their forums?
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Old Jun 29, 2013, 05:56 PM   #110
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Quote:
Originally Posted by flux73 View Post
To me that suggests it's a software issue - either driver or the application. From other people's posts, it's looking more and more like an Adobe issue.

I'm not aware of any non-Adobe apps causing this problem?
I just fired up Photoshop CS6... same issue... but, even while it's flickering, if you do anything system wide, the flickering stops completely. For example, I was going to quit out of the application and when I held in the command key, it stopped. As soon as I let go of the key it started again. I hit command Q to quit and the save/don't save dialog came up and the flickering stopped. As soon as I hit cancel out of that, the flickering started again.

It's gotta be an Adobe issue here. Either that or the Air has some special driver.

I'd like to see the same thing done on another HD5000 GPU machine. Possible it could just be that?
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Old Jun 29, 2013, 07:08 PM   #111
GSVAI
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wizard View Post
Have you taken the machine to an Apple store or in other ways tried to contact Apple about the problem yourself. Frankly rushing to a forum over a broken laptop isn't the most productive way to a fix.

First off you would need to know if it is a hardware or software issue. Some of what I've seen seems to indicate a hardware issue. That doesn't completely rule out drivers though.

Beyond that you can hang around forums and feed your concerns or you can do something about it. Talk to Apple! Further there is a very high likely hood that you aren't even discussing the same problems when you converse with a bunch of random forum members.


No it shouldn't. At the very least you need to get this problem on record with Apple because honestly if the coming driver updates don't fix it you will want to have the hardware replaced. At least one of the videos I've seen leads me to suspect hardware but you really never know.

----------



So have you taken it back to Apple for replacement, examination or at least get the problem on record? Seriously, if you are having problems why are you posting here?
I have tried different avenues to report the problem:
- Called Apple support, the first guy referred me to Adobe
- Called Adobe support, they referred me to Apple
- Called Apple support again, the 2nd guy went through a few procedures with me and concluded I needed to talk to Apple
- THEN I started using the forums here and at other places

Do you even realise that most of us don't have an Apple store just around the corner?

These discussion forums have helped me and others understanding and communicating the issues. I am not in a capacity to say anything about the root cause of the problem but the dialogue here is interesting with some very interesting points on either side.

Since I am privileged to have a store only 20min from home I went down that path as well (apparently Apple is aware of the problem and working on a fix). I also posted this in forums in the hope it would help others.

So, before you have a go at me consider that I might have tried a few things before coming here. And I will stay here, post and learn for as long as I like. Welcome to the internet.

And one more observation for the record, If I use a screen video capture program such as "Jing" the flickering stops completely.
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Old Jun 30, 2013, 02:06 AM   #112
gooddna
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Beautiful
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Old Jun 30, 2013, 09:30 AM   #113
ricmoo
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Quote:
Originally Posted by plasticsman View Post
I have this problem on the Air and I appreciate that it was put on the front page. Apple and Adobe need to get this fixed without turning the blame on each other!
Ditto.
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Old Jun 30, 2013, 09:45 AM   #114
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dysamoria View Post
The nvidia GPU defect in the older MacBook Pro line was considerably common. If not for the Internet and affection given to it, lots of consumers would never know why their machines failed. Like myself. Sadly, mine died a year or two after replacement parts were still available.

Information freedom helps consumers overall. There needs to be higher expectation of reliability in computer tech in general. It's not acceptable the way things are... though the industry has most people thinking things are just fine as is because of indoctrination ("computers are too complex to make them big free"... nonsense).
What annoyed me the most about the whole nVidia fiasco was the fact that consumers were given a replacement motherboard with a GPU that had the same design flaw resulting in a failure in a few months thus necessitating another replacement. What should have happened was Apple demand that nVidia absorb the whole cost of a replacement GPU without the design flaw at nVidia's expense. Btw, want to know this happened? it happened when they moved to a lead free solder - yes, the minuscule amount of lead used in the GPU has resulted in millions of devices (it affected non-Apple laptops too) that prematurely died resulting even more e-waste. Thanks a lot environmentalists for making a minuscule problem into a giant one.

Quote:
Originally Posted by bobob View Post
All other manufacturers' first run production models are 100% problem free!
I assume that is sarcasm because almost every first run has issues; the Lenovo Carbon X1 had a dodgy touchpad and firmware updates were fast and frequently released. That doesn't include the default installation of Windows that is so butchered which results in Windows Updates failing to install due to modifications made by Lenovo to 'boost teh speed'.

Quote:
Originally Posted by plasticsman View Post
I have this problem on the Air and I appreciate that it was put on the front page. Apple and Adobe need to get this fixed without turning the blame on each other!
The fact that it is only occurring with Photoshop leads me to the conclusion that the discussion will be something like this: Adobe mentions that it uses some ancient API that is older than time itself and Apple suggests that they should move their code to this new API that doesn't suffer from the same problems. Adobe refuses because it would require them to spend money on their code base rather than on marketing meaning that poor old Shantanu Narayen won't be able to purchase the final ivory backscratcher to finish his collection.
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Old Jun 30, 2013, 11:03 AM   #115
simonmet
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Quote:
Originally Posted by golgo1313 View Post
you should know that one shouldn't ever buy a first run production model of anything apple.
So true! Early adopters are always the ones getting burnt by issues like these. Fortunately Apple seem to be pretty good about sorting out issues with components or their production line. I always give it a couple of months for them to sort stuff out before buying any new Apple model.

It's pretty funny that anyone is even using an Air for Photo$hop though!
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Old Jun 30, 2013, 05:14 PM   #116
kahkityoong
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Bloody flickering is back on Photoshop CC despite the update. Now CS5 seems to be working OK. Strange erratic behaviour...

Quote:
Originally Posted by simonmet View Post
It's pretty funny that anyone is even using an Air for Photo$hop though!
Your ignorance is even funnier.

----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by Larry-K View Post
Only by pointless comments.
You should be amazed by yourself on a frequent basis then.

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Old Jul 1, 2013, 05:42 AM   #117
toypadlock
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It's my MacBook Air and youtube video featured in the news post. Hello!

I received my replacement from Apple today (took a while because it was a BTO) and I can't replicate the issue anymore, indicating that it's an issue with only some machines.

Also, for what it's worth (and I really don't want to reignite this debate), the defective model had an LG screen and the new one has a Samsung. It might well be nothing to do with that however!
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Old Jul 1, 2013, 08:01 AM   #118
MacJman
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If LSN133BT01A02 is the Samsung panel then the flicker still happens in VMware/Windows 7.
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Old Jul 1, 2013, 08:35 AM   #119
Faux Carnival
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Quality control is dead at Apple.
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Old Jul 2, 2013, 02:50 AM   #120
MH01
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Quote:
Originally Posted by theheadguy View Post
It's sad that your expectations are so low. This is not a $300 netbook.
You could take that as a compliment to the Air. It's your comment that infers that people expect it to perform like a netbook, and at $300.

People are not sad just cause hardware is improving at a faster rate. There was a time when people bought a new desktop which would struggle to run photoshop. Having experienced that, it's quite amazing where we are now days.
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Old Jul 2, 2013, 09:10 AM   #121
alitaliano
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Hi,
I should receive my MBA 2013 on friday…
Did someone tried to go into Photoshop Preferences > Performance then tried to change "Advanced Graphics Processor Settings" to see if it helps ?
There used to be an issue with Windows 8 and AMD GPUs (see here) and a workaround involving these preferences.

So it IS possible that Photoshop has problems due to bad GPU drivers and Chris Cox seems not to admit this…
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Old Jul 2, 2013, 12:51 PM   #122
MagnusVonMagnum
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Quote:
Originally Posted by devinher View Post
Am I the only one that thinks it's amazing that an AIR can even run a full version of photoshop?

Seems like just yesterday we were blown away that Jobs could fit one in an envelope, now we expect it to handle high end graphics applications.
Yeah, I think you and 8 other people are the only ones. Photoshop has been out in one form or another for over a decade and CPUs and graphics chips have made MASSIVE leaps over that time. I'm more amazed at how bloated Photoshop (and other long running apps) has become despite improvements that are hardly noticeable to more casual users.

Personally, I think Apple should be concentrating a LOT harder on quality controls. They demand a HUGE price premium over equivalent Windows hardware and they should have some kind of perceptible benefit over Windows machines for that price (other than just running OSX). Top quality goes a long way to justify heftier prices while frequent defects just makes it look like overpriced garbage.
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Old Jul 2, 2013, 06:55 PM   #123
glovasz
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This flickering happened to me

This flickering is is most likely a driver issue with the Intel/apple display driver.
If you change a setting in Photoshop to use basic drawing mode that should help with this. Though this does not happen I my Mac, mine has Nvidia graphics.

This same issue was happening to three of our Windows 8 machines. All with Intel graphics. I changed the drawing mode on them and the problem went away. I then updated each machine with the latest Intel Driver and put the setting back and the issue is gone completely.
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Old Jul 11, 2013, 08:47 AM   #124
I WAS the one
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Yes, that IS a problem, and yes... That's why they sell Macbook Pros. It's like buying a Chromebook and scream that it doesn't run Office!! (I know the Macbook Air is nothing like a Chromebook, but it's not build for high end tasks either. They sell it as a Student laptop so Graphics and Video Editing is not included in the expectations of that Macbook.)

Good that Apple will work on an update, but please don't try to run Lucas Films on a Mac Mini!!!
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