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Old Jul 31, 2013, 09:30 AM   #51
GermanyChris
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Originally Posted by throAU View Post
If I had to pick a single one...

M3 Coupe.


Goes like stink, and you can use it every day.

Exotica is nice, but unless it's a Porsche, good luck actually using it daily.


edit:
I'd own a Vette too. But not as a daily. BMW interior is just a million times nicer to be in than anything ever made by ford or general motors.
M3's died when the V8 went under the hood, they are better cars but no longer M3's
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Old Jul 31, 2013, 09:42 AM   #52
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M3's died when the V8 went under the hood, they are better cars but no longer M3's
If you want to be like that, they died when the inline 6 went under the hood.... (the E30 was a 4 cylinder)

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Old Jul 31, 2013, 09:58 AM   #53
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Quote:
Originally Posted by throAU View Post
I'd own a Vette too. But not as a daily. BMW interior is just a million times nicer to be in than anything ever made by ford or general motors.
BMW interiors are function over form which isn't necessarily a bad thing. They use decent materials, but not the best. I find the Cadillac ATS interior is better in design and materials. Only thing I don't like is the instrument cluster. Looks beyond cheap. It needs the LCD screen from the XTS and new CTS.

I love the Morello red interior with real carbon fiber trim.

Thumb resize.

Also, the 'Vette's interior is much improved in the C7.

Thumb resize.
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Old Jul 31, 2013, 10:01 AM   #54
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It's not in the same category as Vet and the like, but I like the roadster fell of a Mazda Miata.
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Old Jul 31, 2013, 10:14 AM   #55
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TVR Typhon

No gadgets, just 580bhp, rear wheel drive and a roar like thunder!



That being said, if money was no object I would have an Aventador.
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Old Jul 31, 2013, 11:53 AM   #56
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Originally Posted by throAU View Post
If you want to be like that, they died when the inline 6 went under the hood.... (the E30 was a 4 cylinder)

Inline is the key, BMW has used inline for 60 years as a staple. I was going to say they died when they got fat, but I was giving a little. Yes the last good M3 was the E30. Now they're big fat and ugly.
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Old Jul 31, 2013, 12:01 PM   #57
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Inline is the key, BMW has used inline for 60 years as a staple. I was going to say they died when they got fat, but I was giving a little. Yes the last good M3 was the E30. Now they're big fat and ugly.
The e30 was the first m3... and the v8 motor is lighter than the inline 6 (with more power, more torque, etc.)

The've done other motors before... been making v8s (again) now for almost 20 years in the 5 series, v12s in the 7s and 8s. The Mclaren F1 motor was a V12, M5 has had the V10, etc.

High RPM, natural aspiration and individual throttle bodies is what makes an M motor for me.



I currently drive an E39 V8... want the M5 version
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Old Jul 31, 2013, 12:24 PM   #58
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Quote:
Originally Posted by throAU View Post
The e30 was the first m3... and the v8 motor is lighter than the inline 6 (with more power, more torque, etc.)

The've done other motors before... been making v8s (again) now for almost 20 years in the 5 series, v12s in the 7s and 8s. The Mclaren F1 motor was a V12, M5 has had the V10, etc.

High RPM, natural aspiration and individual throttle bodies is what makes an M motor for me.



I currently drive an E39 V8... want the M5 version
Yes they have and I'll restate the last good M3 was the E30 the 3 series has gotten big fat and ugly. The 5 series is following long i't only swelled a little bit and got ugly. Chris Bangle started all this he should have left well enough alone.

E39's are fine cars the last proper 5 at that.

Proper BMW sports sedans
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Old Jul 31, 2013, 12:26 PM   #59
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Quote:
Originally Posted by throAU View Post

High RPM, natural aspiration and individual throttle bodies is what makes an M motor for me.
Then the E60 and E90 generation M's must have been the last true M's for you. F10 and F30 based M's are turbocharged engines( the new M3/M4 using a turbo Inline 6).

I love the E92 M3 with its V8.
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Old Jul 31, 2013, 12:26 PM   #60
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My favorite sports car is the one I drive every day. NSX
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I love the NSX. I always think of its cameo scene in Pulp fiction where Mr. Wolfe lays rubber and screams away in a cloud of dust.
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Old Jul 31, 2013, 12:28 PM   #61
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Originally Posted by GermanyChris View Post
Yes they have and I'll restate the last good M3 was the E30 the 3 series has gotten big fat and ugly. The 5 series is following long i't only swelled a little bit and got ugly. Chris Bangle started all this he should have left well enough alone.

E39's are fine cars the last proper 5 at that.

Proper BMW sports sedans
Bangle saved BMW( not business wise, but design wise). I love what he did to BMW's design language. Hated that generations before the E65 7 series, the 3, 5, and 7 all looked the same just in different sizes. The E65, E60, and E90 were all different and could tell each other apart.

The E65 7 series was the best selling 7 series ever.

Though I don't quite like the F01 7 series. And the F30 would be decent if it wasn't for the headlight attaching to the grille characteristic( don't get me started on how they softened the F30 driving wise as well).
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Old Jul 31, 2013, 12:40 PM   #62
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Then the E60 and E90 generation M's must have been the last true M's for you.
Pretty much. I'm open to being convinced however, I've had turbos in the past and they're fun too.

But for me, M has always been high revs, NA and multiple throttle bodies...


Quote:
Originally Posted by quagmire View Post
Bangle saved BMW( not business wise, but design wise). I love what he did to BMW's design language. Hated that generations before the E65 7 series, the 3, 5, and 7 all looked the same just in different sizes. The E65, E60, and E90 were all different and could tell each other apart.

.

I think i just threw up in my mouth a little....


The beemers used to look similar because that's what a beemer is supposed to look like. Put the wheels at the edges (for handling), pump out the guards for decent sized rubber, give it a spacious cabin and plenty of cargo space and there's certain dimensions that are fixed.

They're about the drive, not what they look like on the outside. They usually look the way they look to perform the way they do. If that makes sense. They're supposed to be understated.

The only bangle BMW i can tolerate is the E60 5 series (specifically, the M5). And its just far too look at me compared to the equivalent E39... For me BMW styling peaked with the E39 5 series (which is why i bought one ) and the E46 M3.
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Old Jul 31, 2013, 12:47 PM   #63
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Originally Posted by quagmire View Post
Bangle saved BMW( not business wise, but design wise)
Twas better before Chris the difference between BMW's series in the past was more nuanced now they're just ugly and big.

Quote:
Originally Posted by quagmire View Post
The E65 7 series was the best selling 7 series ever.
How much of that is BMW design or BMW as status symbol and fresh money in emerging economies?
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Old Jul 31, 2013, 12:48 PM   #64
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I'm quite fascinated by the Tesla S. It's not what first pops into anyone's head when discussing sporty cars but the quickness + mileage combo is amazing.
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Old Jul 31, 2013, 12:54 PM   #65
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Just on interiors... what REALLY drives me up to the wall with regards to Ford/GM is the plastics and switch gear they use.

The dash, door trims, etc all feel.... hard. I've not been in a cadillac (they pretty much don't exist here) though.

Ditto for the switch gear. Every time I drive a GM or Ford, It feels like it is going to break. The way the levers click into each detent etc just feels cheap. I know this sounds really petty, but on my E39, the levers for indicators, wipers, shifter, etc. all just feel ... right.

Ditto for steering weight, steering wheel feel, pedal weight, etc.

Also when replacing light bulbs... all the retention mechanisms have the same feel of solidarity and precision.

You know that feeling you get when you hop in a car and it all just feels "right"? That's it.

I hop in a lot of other cars and the steering feels wrong, pedals feel wrong, driving position feels wrong, brake pedal sensitivity/pressure feels wrong, etc, etc - and you need to "Get used to it".

Now don't get me wrong. The E39 breaks a lot It makes me want to cry sometimes. But damn i like driving it...


edit:
Example - VANOS seals. beemer owners will know what I'm talking about. High tech VVT system that is well engineered.... crippled by crappy rubber oil seals that degrade over time when exposed to oil.

Cost to fix? say $2.5k...
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Old Jul 31, 2013, 01:02 PM   #66
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Pretty much. I'm open to being convinced however, I've had turbos in the past and they're fun too.
Turbos are fun. It's the one thing I am going to miss from my dads E90 335xi when he buys the Cadillac ATS( which I find has the better chassis). The N54 in the 335xi is just pure awesomeness. Gobs of torque at 1500 RPM. It just pulls and pulls. The 3.6 liter V6 in the ATS isn't bad, but the N54 is on an entirely different level when it comes to the driving experience compared to the LFX. But, the ATS is overall a more joy to drive and should be cheaper to maintain.



Quote:
I think i just threw up in my mouth a little....


The beemers used to look similar because that's what a beemer is supposed to look like. Put the wheels at the edges (for handling), pump out the guards for decent sized rubber, give it a spacious cabin and plenty of cargo space and there's certain dimensions that are fixed.

They're about the drive, not what they look like on the outside. They usually look the way they look to perform the way they do. If that makes sense. They're supposed to be understated.
I agree. It's about how they drive, etc. It's why I am mad they softened the F30 3 series. But, I like to be able to distinguish what is a 3 series, 5 series, and 7 series. If you want understated fine, but I want to be able to tell which is which without getting close to it. It's why I am not a big fan of Cadillac's rear end design. It's hard to tell what is an ATS, CTS, and XTS from a distance. Front end I can tell, but not the rear.

Quote:
Originally Posted by GermanyChris View Post
How much of that is BMW design or BMW as status symbol and fresh money in emerging economies?
While all that may be factors, I don't think it is just a coincidence the E65 became a big hit. As Leroy Jethrow Gibbs would say, there is no such things as coincidences.
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Old Jul 31, 2013, 01:03 PM   #67
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Used to be the Lamborghini Murcielago, now it's the Aventador as the Murcielago was discontinued. Love Lamborghini's.
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Old Jul 31, 2013, 02:24 PM   #68
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Just on interiors... what REALLY drives me up to the wall with regards to Ford/GM is the plastics and switch gear they use.

The dash, door trims, etc all feel.... hard. I've not been in a cadillac (they pretty much don't exist here) though.

Ditto for the switch gear. Every time I drive a GM or Ford, It feels like it is going to break. The way the levers click into each detent etc just feels cheap. I know this sounds really petty, but on my E39, the levers for indicators, wipers, shifter, etc. all just feel ... right.

Ditto for steering weight, steering wheel feel, pedal weight, etc.

Also when replacing light bulbs... all the retention mechanisms have the same feel of solidarity and precision.

You know that feeling you get when you hop in a car and it all just feels "right"? That's it.

I hop in a lot of other cars and the steering feels wrong, pedals feel wrong, driving position feels wrong, brake pedal sensitivity/pressure feels wrong, etc, etc - and you need to "Get used to it".

Now don't get me wrong. The E39 breaks a lot It makes me want to cry sometimes. But damn i like driving it...


edit:
Example - VANOS seals. beemer owners will know what I'm talking about. High tech VVT system that is well engineered.... crippled by crappy rubber oil seals that degrade over time when exposed to oil.

Cost to fix? say $2.5k...

We just sold my father-in-law 99 E39 523, in the 14 years he had the car he has had about 1200 euros in repairs not including maintenance. I'd say he did well.
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Old Jul 31, 2013, 02:28 PM   #69
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Used to be the Lamborghini Murcielago, now it's the Aventador as the Murcielago was discontinued. Love Lamborghini's.
The only attractive vehicle Lamborghini ever made
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Old Jul 31, 2013, 08:43 PM   #70
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We just sold my father-in-law 99 E39 523, in the 14 years he had the car he has had about 1200 euros in repairs not including maintenance. I'd say he did well.
Probably a lot cheaper to maintain in Germany than Australia.

Here the cooling system needs replacement every 10 years as the plastics crack and break, and labor cost for a mechanic with a clue to work on mine is $150/hr.

I've spent over $12,000 in the 3 years I've owned mine ('01 535i Sport - manual) in servicing and repairs (probably $2-3k of that is normal servicing) - part of which was due to the cooling system dying twice (which i'd planned to replace as soon as I bought but it died before i got the chance and cooked an alternator, which is a $1500 part here). Due to the $1500 alternator in week one of ownership, I couldn't replace the entire cooling system immediately and a different bit died and killed another alternator....


But now I'm on top of it apart from the VANOS... next on the list. I had to laugh at Jay Leno doing the VANOS on his Mclaren recently. Multi million dollar beemer, same VANOS issues

At least on the M62 in the E39 it's not an engine out job
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