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Old Dec 9, 2012, 04:54 PM   #326
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Originally Posted by Macky-Mac View Post
by not paying attention to the actual words of the authors of those statements. Instead they've offered spin to match what they wish had been said.
So why exactly would organisations like Reuters support a pro-Hamas spin?
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Old Dec 9, 2012, 05:12 PM   #327
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So why exactly would organisations like Reuters support a pro-Hamas spin?
why exactly do you think they were "supporting a pro-Hamas" spin?

Aren't they just reporting what they believe was said?

(edit; I'm assuming you're referring to your previous link to the report about the Charlie Rose show appearance? Have you seen the show and heard what Mashaal actually said in the context of the questions and discussions? Or have you simply latched onto the Reuters sound bites that appealed to you? In response to your question;

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How have they misled themselves?
When it comes to misleading oneself, uncritically accepting sound bites from the news media a pretty effective way to do it)

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Old Dec 9, 2012, 05:53 PM   #328
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Arguably the US isn't a civilised country thanks to the drones, no.
Then we have nothing further to discuss.

If you would like to admit you were wrong, I'll happily respond to the rest of your post. Until that point, good day.
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Old Dec 9, 2012, 06:18 PM   #329
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Then we have nothing further to discuss.
Really? Is "civilised" now defined by whatever the US does?
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Old Dec 9, 2012, 06:18 PM   #330
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Really? Is "civilised" now defined by whatever the US does?
No, read the thread.
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Old Dec 9, 2012, 06:36 PM   #331
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Really? Is "civilised" now defined by whatever the US does?
"My country, right or wrong."

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No, read the thread.
Careful Son.

He'll spray you, or give you warts. We're not really sure at this point.
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Old Dec 9, 2012, 07:28 PM   #332
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So no country on earth, except maybe North Korea or some other comparable country is civilized?
While "free markets" and capitalism rule the world, I'd say no. Any place that sets up systems to export suffering for personal gain I wouldn't call civilized. So no, your little jab about North Korea does not hold valid. Prison camps everywhere, how is that civilized?

But I can see you're clearly the 'Murica type, so you probably take it as god's word that the USA is perfect, or at the bare minimum not actively trying to suppress and kill others.


Why does humanity seem to think this is good enough? It's amazing what having access to consumer **** will do to pacify people.

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Really? Is "civilised" now defined by whatever the US does?
Oh skunk, you know gods holy land can do no harm. Killing women and children repeatedly throughout our short history, and even today?? For the greater good!
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Old Dec 9, 2012, 09:08 PM   #333
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"My country, right or wrong."



Careful Son.

He'll spray you, or give you warts. We're not really sure at this point.
Ha. My apologies. I've been debating this so much that I lost my temper a bit. I thought I stated what I meant clearly in regard to the question.

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While "free markets" and capitalism rule the world, I'd say no. Any place that sets up systems to export suffering for personal gain I wouldn't call civilized.
I disagree. But perhaps we should take this to another thread.

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So no, your little jab about North Korea does not hold valid. Prison camps everywhere, how is that civilized?
Well if your point was that capitalism =/= civilization then I can't really think of a country that doesn't participate in capitalism to some degree, except maybe North Korea.

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But I can see you're clearly the 'Murica type, so you probably take it as god's word that the USA is perfect, or at the bare minimum not actively trying to suppress and kill others.
Incorrect assumption.
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Old Dec 10, 2012, 02:15 AM   #334
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why exactly do you think they were "supporting a pro-Hamas" spin?

Aren't they just reporting what they believe was said?
So do you have a full transcript of everything Hamas has said to backup these claims?

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Then we have nothing further to discuss.
So you can't handle the idea that the US might not be civilised. Wow.

I didn't even say that I thought the US wasn't civilised, as I clearly drew a line in the sand between the US and Israel.
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Old Dec 10, 2012, 11:12 AM   #335
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So do you have a full transcript of everything Hamas has said to backup these claims?...
you can watch it online. It's quite an interesting interview. Watch it with the question "what did Reuters leave out of their report?" and you'll find a number of things.
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Old Dec 10, 2012, 12:54 PM   #336
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you can watch it online.
Link?
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Old Dec 10, 2012, 01:08 PM   #337
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Link?
I watched it a year ago and didn't bookmark the link. If you're unable to find it, let me know and I'll find it for you.

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Old Dec 10, 2012, 01:13 PM   #338
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So you can't handle the idea that the US might not be civilised. Wow.

I didn't even say that I thought the US wasn't civilised, as I clearly drew a line in the sand between the US and Israel.

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Arguably the US isn't a civilised country thanks to the drones, no.
The fact that you are even entertaining the idea that the US isn't a civilized demonstrates that you're applying meaninglessly stringent criteria for being "civilized", because it excludes every country in some way.

You can't "argue" it because it's meaningless, and until you admit that your criteria is arbitrary and far too stringent, then we have nothing to discuss. The fact that you are using this criteria and claiming that Israel isn't a civilized country further demonstrates the meaningless of your point.

Until you remove your bias against Israel, and accept that what you are calling civilized is meaningless distinction, we can't continue having a discussion, because I'm not going to sit here and argue against your ridiculous criteria.
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Old Dec 10, 2012, 01:59 PM   #339
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The fact that you are even entertaining the idea that the US isn't a civilized demonstrates that you're applying meaninglessly stringent criteria for being "civilized", because it excludes every country in some way.

You can't "argue" it because it's meaningless, and until you admit that your criteria is arbitrary and far too stringent, then we have nothing to discuss. The fact that you are using this criteria and claiming that Israel isn't a civilized country further demonstrates the meaningless of your point.

Until you remove your bias against Israel, and accept that what you are calling civilized is meaningless distinction, we can't continue having a discussion, because I'm not going to sit here and argue against your ridiculous criteria.
I love your double standards. Do the rules have to be changed to accommodate any particular country? Would it also be changed for non western countries?
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Old Dec 10, 2012, 02:10 PM   #340
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I love your double standards. Do the rules have to be changed to accommodate any particular country? Would it also be changed for non western countries?
What rules and standards did I make up?
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Old Dec 11, 2012, 03:29 PM   #341
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What rules and standards did I make up?
It would certainly be more civilised by European standards if the death penalty was abolished.
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Old Dec 12, 2012, 11:20 AM   #342
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Do I need to copy/paste several links to show how many influential leaders and rabbis from Israel that have made similar comments
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Old Dec 12, 2012, 06:13 PM   #343
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Do I need to copy/paste several links to show how many influential leaders and rabbis from Israel that have made similar comments
hmmmm, well it certainly wouldn't change what some Hamas leaders said, but if you're now desperately feeling the need to show some israeli leaders in a bad light because of that post, go ahead, be my guest.
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Old May 27, 2013, 01:22 PM   #344
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Just a few notes for anybody who wants to save the time of watching the video.

Scheurer was not an 'Ex-CIA' Chief, as the video poster claims. He was for 3 years the Station Chief of a small, but important, section.

He wrote two books anonymously while an intelligence officer. These may or may not have something to do with why he was forced to resign after 22 years with the CIA. In one of the books (Imperial Hubris, iirc) he claims that Bin Laden was a rational man, who simply wanted to economically weaken the US so that their interference in the middle east would be blunted. Among other things. Was Scheuer the one that Bin Laden praised as understanding Al-Qaeda's goals? I should look that up, I suppose.

In the video linked he does not state that Jews own congress, he does state the Israeli lobby is very effective ... as effective as the Tobacco and NRA people. Unlike the other two lobbies in Washington he believes that supporting Israel is counter-productive to American interests... and so by implication he must then believe that the NRA and Tobacco industries benefit Americans.

The video, of course, does not show any rebuttal to his claims - so it is impossible to gauge whether his points actually stood up when tested.
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