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Old Jul 6, 2013, 12:27 PM   #76
Irishman
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Originally Posted by MagicThief83 View Post
One, your melodrama is unnecessary!?!?!?! Two, I've only started using Apple products about a year ago and never had any experience with building a PC, so prior to researching Hackintoshing/PC building, I thought getting an iMac would be best since it's a "desktop" and a clean all in one. However, I found myself missing the performance of true desktop and after the new Mac Pro reveal, I decided that building a Hackintosh would be best for me. I mean, surely you've vacillated between several decisions before, did you think you're the first person to not backtrack on a decision you've made before?!?!



Clearly!



Your post makes absolutely no sense whatsoever. Who said anything about installing a GPU into an iMac?
I research my buying decisions fully before pulling the trigger. No better way to avoid buyer's remorse for big-ticket items. In fact, I spent the better part of 4 months researching Hackintoshes (and you're right, the difficulty of putting one together is much easier than it used to be, and tonymacx86 is a great resource tool and support tool) before deciding on my iMac, but it really came down to this: I don't want to be my own tech support. That's it. Nothing more melodramatic or complicated than that.

My initial headscratching moment was - after having read the reasons for why you bought an iMac in the first place, they had very little to do with the hardware itself, and it just came across that it had been a casual decision for you.
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Old Jul 7, 2013, 02:13 AM   #77
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A Hackintosh is sure fun to build, I've built both a Hackintosh Desktop and laptop. What most concerned me was just how secure a Hackintosh really is?

I never used my machine to order any online goods. God knows how many exploits are lurking under that Hackintosh code and kexts. Having enjoyed using OSX it did persuade me to buy a proper Mac.
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Old Jul 7, 2013, 02:47 AM   #78
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I love Mac towers, had several over the years but could not justify the cost of a Mac Pro so got the 27" at the start of the year. Fusion is great and the i7 with 680mx and 32Gb of RAM is more than I need. The 27" LCD is great and while it felt big at first I wish it was bigger now, after just a few months use.

I do like the look of the new Mac Pro but will reserve my judgment on that until Apple releases full specs and price as I fear the base model is likely to cost as much as I paid for my 27". Also users will need to factor in external storage options.
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Old Jul 7, 2013, 07:43 AM   #79
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You want the best of both world? Here's some advices:

1. Build your own Windows PC, say for $1200 you'll get a nice powerful tower for years to come. For hardcore gaming, video editing and so on. Don't forget to include SSD though. No surprise it's much cheaper than buying SSD/Fusion for your deary iMac.

2. Get a 27" display to match 27" iMac/Thunderbolt Display, say something like Dell Ultrasharp 2713HM, it's a 2560x1440 and you can get it for around $700 or even less. How much an Apple Thunderbolt Display cost again?
The Dell comes with multiple video inputs for flexibility, and USB 3 hub too, so it's a much nicer monitor compared to ATD. Not to mention it has 3 years warranty from Dell by default. Perfect!

3. Lastly, if you have some more $$ to spare, get a Macbook Air, a 11" high end model or 13" base model would suffice for around $1100. You can connect it through DisplayPort to your monitor. Voila, you get a Mac, and mobile computer to be on the go.

Those machines will be perfect and versatile for any condition you'll likely to encounter.

Yes it might costs you roughly 3 grand, but you get 2 computers. Real Mac to be on the go and real PC for heavyworks.
Please look back at your options, and think how much would you spend to buy a single new iTrashcan MacPro? AMD FirePro graphic is by no means "affordable", add the cost of a Xeon and it could easily more expensive than current gen MP.
Also remember to add the cost of 27" display since MacPro does not give you one. Talking about stingy

Be it heavy editing, hardcore gaming, or lightweight mobile stuff on a Mac. Apple is a mobile company, remember? They're good at it, not so much with desktop
You would hardly miss anything.
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Old Jul 7, 2013, 11:47 AM   #80
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What most concerned me was just how secure a Hackintosh really is...I never used my machine to order any online goods. God knows how many exploits are lurking under that Hackintosh code and kexts.
A properly configured Hackintosh is every bit as secure as a regular Mac. There is no "Hackintosh code;" you install the OS and just install certain kexts based on your hardware configuration. The people who compile these installation packages are extremely reputable and well known within the Hackintosh community, and there is no malicious intent. Now if you install pirated software and torrent files, that's a different situation.
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Old Jul 8, 2013, 03:36 AM   #81
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There is no "Hackintosh code;

I should have been more specific, Chameleon boot loader and other bootloaders!. I also appreciate that there is a very good community collaborating to make Hackintosh possible, It's impossible to say that every single kext found on the internet is going to be safe, so it's a risk, it's still experimental.

You can keep the risk to a minimum, by using tools such as Multibeast etc from reputable websites such as TonyMacX86 or tools found from osx86project etc.

There are so many Hackintosh compatibility issues, not every bit of Hardware is supported, so many users will troll the net to find kexts that support a specific device if they cant find it on TonyMacX86 or osx86project , putting there machine at risk.

Exploits are routinely found on both legit Windows and Mac operating systems, those company's have maga bucks to find those holes patch and close. So Hackintosh is my opinion is risky especially if you plan on using credit card details online or on the App store. This makes it more appealing to the cyber criminal.

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Originally Posted by MagicThief83 View Post
A properly configured Hackintosh is every bit as secure as a regular Mac
It might be properly configured Hackintosh, but it's not a properly configured Mac. So no, it's NOT every bit as secure as a regular Mac.

Last edited by glasgood; Jul 8, 2013 at 03:44 AM.
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Old Jul 9, 2013, 08:22 AM   #82
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I also liked the minimal desk space of the iMac, so I'm one of the people who actually switched to a Apple hardware because of trying a Hackintosh and loving the experience of the iLife suite.
All my iMacs have ended up with so many cables and extensions hanging off them, the minimal form doesn't really count for much. In the Hackintosh I've got six hard drives and a ridiculous amount of USB ports, all in the box - no hubs or external enclosures. All that's on the desk is a monitor, mouse and keyboard.

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Originally Posted by iSayuSay View Post
You want the best of both world? Here's some advices:

1. Build your own Windows PC, say for $1200 you'll get a nice powerful tower for years to come. For hardcore gaming, video editing and so on. Don't forget to include SSD though. No surprise it's much cheaper than buying SSD/Fusion for your deary iMac.

2. Get a 27" display to match 27" iMac/Thunderbolt Display, say something like Dell Ultrasharp 2713HM, it's a 2560x1440 and you can get it for around $700 or even less.

3. Lastly, if you have some more $$ to spare, get a Macbook Air, a 11" high end model or 13" base model would suffice for around $1100. You can connect it through DisplayPort to your monitor. Voila, you get a Mac, and mobile computer to be on the go.
Alternatively, have it all in one computer - the OP was about replacing an iMac, not a Mac Pro and laptop.

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Originally Posted by glasgood View Post
It might be properly configured Hackintosh, but it's not a properly configured Mac. So no, it's NOT every bit as secure as a regular Mac.
Scaremongering. If the Mac market is so small that hackers can barely be bothered to attack it (and that's the only reason there are few viruses on Mac) then the Hackintosh market is a tiny subset of that.
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Old Jul 9, 2013, 08:49 AM   #83
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All my iMacs have ended up with so many cables and extensions hanging off them, the minimal form doesn't really count for much. In the Hackintosh I've got six hard drives and a ridiculous amount of USB ports, all in the box - no hubs or external enclosures. All that's on the desk is a monitor, mouse and keyboard.



Alternatively, have it all in one computer - the OP was about replacing an iMac, not a Mac Pro and laptop.



Scaremongering. If the Mac market is so small that hackers can barely be bothered to attack it (and that's the only reason there are few viruses on Mac) then the Hackintosh market is a tiny subset of that.
Exactly! This is why I decided against the new Mac Pro, with no room for internal expansion and all peripherals external-based, kind of defeats the purpose of minimalism and design. Everything I need is neatly placed and installed in my tower. I don't understand the basis of this flawed notion about Hackintoshes not being secure. Any PC/Mac/Hackintosh is vulnerable to security threats; it's all about what you install and do on your system that exposes it to exploits. If you use reputable guides and sources to setup your system, there should be no issue security wise. If you're fishing the net for drivers and install files, then you're asking for trouble.

----------

I also had several wires/cables protruding from my iMac, so there is also clutter associated with an all-in-one; my Hack isn't any messier, and I love it now how towers have built-in cable management features.
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Old Jul 9, 2013, 11:21 AM   #84
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You can get an "A+" WQHD monitor from Monoprice for under 400 dollars. If you want a bunch of hookups they are about 450.

They use the exact same LG panels that current iMacs use. Your list is basically way off, you compared an essentially "used" iMac to new PC parts, that are higher than they really are anyway.

Apples are more expensive period. They make a 40% margin on their stuff, and no one else does. I don't get this constant need to say "but Apple stuff is the same price!" among Apple fans. It's just not true. Just buy Apple stuff because you want it, you don't have to try and justify the price.

http://www.monoprice.com/products/pr...seq=1&format=2

http://www.monoprice.com/products/pr...seq=1&format=2



More misinformation. Parts used for builds are, generally speaker, higher quality than ANY OEM made computers, including Apple. Builders know what they are doing, so the companies that are putting out boards have to compete via quality on the high end. When you start getting into PCB layer quality, and types of Caps, MOSFETs etc., used on the boards...you know you are dealing with customers who know their stuff.

Open up any Apple and all you see is a pretty average quality board. Apple's are about very basic parts in fancy cases with high margins. Any well done "slapped together" PC (by the way, have you seen how amazing these builds can be?) would likely outlast any Mac Pro they sell.
Yeah... speaking of misinformation. The quality of parts provided by supplier X to OEM Y is of great concern to the OEM. They want the highest quality components they can squeeze from the supplier. What gives them the right? The ability to guarantee payment for X million units/year. Supplier X can't get such a guarantee obviously from the general PC builder market. OEMs like Apple, Dell, etc get components for minimal markup. They drive the suppliers hard. Suppliers are forced to mark up their consumer products as a result, and the quality may or may not be as well-controlled as shipments to the OEM, since consumers don't typically ask to see quality metrics like Ppk and Cpk.

Also, who makes better PC builders, hundreds of the top electrical, electronic, and mechanical engineers working together with the finances to buy millions of dollars of new tools or people with various levels of skill working individually using universally-designed parts?

As for the point about margin, sure Apple probably has the highest margins. But it's not all reflected in the final price. They drive components prices down as well, so in the end the consumer is still getting the best components for a similar price as a PC slapped together.
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Old Jul 9, 2013, 03:48 PM   #85
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All my iMacs have ended up with so many cables and extensions hanging off them, the minimal form doesn't really count for much.
Then it sounds like a Hackintosh was a better choice for you. Everything I have hooked up to my 27" iMac fits in its footprint, with no additional space needed for a box. I'll also add that my computer desk is an aluminum frame with frosted glass, so the iMac matches wonderfully with it.

Yes, design *is* important to me... that's why we have color coordinated rooms, the rims on my car are aftermarket, and we ripped out the carpet in our house and replaced it all with hardwood and tile.
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Old Jul 9, 2013, 04:50 PM   #86
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Also, who makes better PC builders, hundreds of the top electrical, electronic, and mechanical engineers working together with the finances to buy millions of dollars of new tools or people with various levels of skill working individually using universally-designed parts?

As for the point about margin, sure Apple probably has the highest margins. But it's not all reflected in the final price. They drive components prices down as well, so in the end the consumer is still getting the best components for a similar price as a PC slapped together.
What about the Macbooks with Nvidia GPUs not so long ago? Those clearly weren't the best build quality. And the G5 iMacs with capacitors that would routinely burst. And the newer iMac screens with ghosting or yellow patches.

You can buy better quality components than the ones Apples uses.

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Yes, design *is* important to me... that's why we have color coordinated rooms, the rims on my car are aftermarket, and we ripped out the carpet in our house and replaced it all with hardwood and tile.
But carpet feels so much *nicer* under your feet.
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Old Jul 9, 2013, 06:28 PM   #87
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But carpet feels so much *nicer* under your feet.
Agreed, and that's why we have replaceable area rugs.
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Old Jul 9, 2013, 08:55 PM   #88
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What about the Macbooks with Nvidia GPUs not so long ago? Those clearly weren't the best build quality. And the G5 iMacs with capacitors that would routinely burst. And the newer iMac screens with ghosting or yellow patches.

You can buy better quality components than the ones Apples uses.
They're all made in china or with parts from china at the lowest cost they can get... Every brand, not just Apple.
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Old Jul 10, 2013, 04:21 AM   #89
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Hello All,
I consider myself an avid gamer, however, I won't be able to enjoy the latest titles because the GPU is a huge bottleneck. I've been contemplating building myself a Hackintosh
Hi MagicThief83

It's been great reading this and all the replies. So many approaches.

I was in a similar boat as you. I'm a long time Mac AND PC user and have been gaming on the PC for years.

I loved the gaming power of my self built PC and the stability, simplicity and elegance of the MacBook Pro.

Recently switched to MBP for my fulltime creative work and hooked up to a 24" Dell monitor I've never had any problems.

But what to do for "proper" gaming?? My solution was to strip down my self-built mega PC tower and squeeze the GPU and PSU into the tiny Dell Inspiron mini tower we had.

Works great. I can't say that little Dell would win any prizes for it's internal airflow but it really is a great solution.

Anyway, good to read another gamers perspective. I'd never thought of going down the Hackintosh route.
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Old Jul 10, 2013, 04:24 AM   #90
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They're all made in china or with parts from china at the lowest cost they can get... Every brand, not just Apple.
Forgetting spec for a moment, you can't be suggesting that the GTX 680 soldered to the motherboard of the top of the range iMac is anywhere near as solid and well made as this comparably priced 680. Also, if this one burns itself out, it won't take your entire computer and monitor with it.
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Old Jul 10, 2013, 06:53 AM   #91
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Forgetting spec for a moment, you can't be suggesting that the GTX 680 soldered to the motherboard of the top of the range iMac is anywhere near as solid and well made as this comparably priced 680. Also, if this one burns itself out, it won't take your entire computer and monitor with it.
In either case the chance of getting a bad card is about the same. Both card goes through the same piss poor quality controls that is used today.
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Old Jul 10, 2013, 09:18 PM   #92
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What about the Macbooks with Nvidia GPUs not so long ago? Those clearly weren't the best build quality. And the G5 iMacs with capacitors that would routinely burst. And the newer iMac screens with ghosting or yellow patches.

You can buy better quality components than the ones Apples uses.
Well your last item, iMacs with ghosting screens, never heard of that. I have a 2012 iMac and the screen is great, better than any other I've used. There my be a few OCD types on here who've returned 3 iMacs, but I want to see Apple's data on whether or not these were customer dissatisfactions or product flaws.

What proof do you have that Apple's quality failures are worse than industry average? Based on Apple's numerous awards like JD Powers for their iPads and iPhones, I tend to think Apple's product quality is the among the best in the business.
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Old Jul 11, 2013, 04:26 AM   #93
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Well your last item, iMacs with ghosting screens, never heard of that. I have a 2012 iMac and the screen is great, better than any other I've used. There my be a few OCD types on here who've returned 3 iMacs, but I want to see Apple's data on whether or not these were customer dissatisfactions or product flaws.
There was loads of stuff on here and elsewhere about that problem. Search iMac image retention / ghosting. Here's a video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x2dafvZZC7Y. Some may say it's OCD, others may say that when you're buying one of the most expensive home computers available, you'd expect it to be flawless. You'll never see any Apple data about it because they rarely acknowledge flaws until somebody hits them with a class action suit.

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What proof do you have that Apple's quality failures are worse than industry average?
I didn't say that, I was responding to the assertion that by buying Apple you get the very best quality components. I don't think that's the case. You just get a load of average parts crammed into a very sleek box.
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Old Jul 11, 2013, 06:47 AM   #94
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All my iMacs have ended up with so many cables and extensions hanging off them, the minimal form doesn't really count for much. In the Hackintosh I've got six hard drives and a ridiculous amount of USB ports, all in the box - no hubs or external enclosures. All that's on the desk is a monitor, mouse and keyboard.



Alternatively, have it all in one computer - the OP was about replacing an iMac, not a Mac Pro and laptop.



Scaremongering. If the Mac market is so small that hackers can barely be bothered to attack it (and that's the only reason there are few viruses on Mac) then the Hackintosh market is a tiny subset of that.
Yeah well .. been there, tried that. That's what I thought about having all my computing needs (gaming, working, Mac, Windows, both) on one sexy package called iMac.

But I have this endless problem with the display, notoriously acknowledged as smudged display. It's annoying, it keeps coming back. Apple replaced my old iMac with the new late 2012 iMac (how kind of Apple, huh) but guess what? The old problem, it's coming back again. So of course I'd need to bring back my whole machine for repair instead of only the monitor (so I can keep using my CPU box).

What good an iMac without a reliable display? That's right, nothing. If I have to get another external display and let the built-in display dying or not crystal clear, getting an iMac is just ridiculous.
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Old Jul 11, 2013, 08:51 PM   #95
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There was loads of stuff on here and elsewhere about that problem. Search iMac image retention / ghosting. Here's a video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x2dafvZZC7Y. Some may say it's OCD, others may say that when you're buying one of the most expensive home computers available, you'd expect it to be flawless. You'll never see any Apple data about it because they rarely acknowledge flaws until somebody hits them with a class action suit.



I didn't say that, I was responding to the assertion that by buying Apple you get the very best quality components. I don't think that's the case. You just get a load of average parts crammed into a very sleek box.
Your video shows a real problem. However, I've never seen it that bad. On mine, I've never seen it at all. Also, Apple has a tech tip to get rid of it. It involves showing a white screen for a few minutes on high brightness then you're good to go. Problem fixed. If not, AppleCare fixed. I'm not sure what's the big deal? Apple doesn't have zero warranty claims, I defy you to show me a company that does.

Those machines in service that *are* working without issue, those are comprised of the best components your money can buy. I know this because I work for an OEM. You can't afford to let very many crappy products out the door, so you check the quality as much as possible and demand the supplier give you the best ones.... sometimes it results in low yields like the problems they were having with screens before. Sometimes things still get missed, even with Apple.

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Yeah well .. been there, tried that. That's what I thought about having all my computing needs (gaming, working, Mac, Windows, both) on one sexy package called iMac.

But I have this endless problem with the display, notoriously acknowledged as smudged display. It's annoying, it keeps coming back. Apple replaced my old iMac with the new late 2012 iMac (how kind of Apple, huh) but guess what? The old problem, it's coming back again. So of course I'd need to bring back my whole machine for repair instead of only the monitor (so I can keep using my CPU box).

What good an iMac without a reliable display? That's right, nothing. If I have to get another external display and let the built-in display dying or not crystal clear, getting an iMac is just ridiculous.
Your display problems seem to be the vast minority. Check out the other thread of satisfied 2012 iMac customers. Scaremongering at its best. Sorry about your problems though, perhaps take advantage of Applecare?
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Old Jul 11, 2013, 09:02 PM   #96
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Your display problems seem to be the vast minority. Check out the other thread of satisfied 2012 iMac customers. Scaremongering at its best. Sorry about your problems though, perhaps take advantage of Applecare?
Oh wow you made it sounds easy. Since we seems to own an identical iMac (27", i7, 680MX, 3TB Fusion) How about we exchange unit? I get to use your machine and you, mine. I'd do the whole Time Machine transfer for you, I really would.

You seems so fond of Apple products, so let's see what would you say after spend some time of use with my iMac, taking it back and forth a few times for the same repair jobs over and over.

Let's see your comments after that.

My problem is with the product, not the sales service and support. But Apple is taking care of you, always, right?
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