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Old Jul 29, 2013, 03:21 PM   #151
Statelymwhite
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In five years, all of us "office" types will be walking around our cube farms with convertible hybrid laptop/tablets running Windows 8, versus the cumbersome Win7 laptops we have now.

I would really like to see Apple create some sort of laptop/tablet hybrid, but since that's more of a business solution, it's probably not going to happen.
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Old Jul 29, 2013, 03:35 PM   #152
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Microsoft's problem is that they can't really copy anymore to stay competitive. That was MS modus operandi. They did it in the beginning to Apple, Mozilla, Novel, and quite a few others. This time they can't because now we are talking about ecosystems and stickiness. When your competitors are making great products and services that lock in consumers and developers, you have to bring something fresh and attractive to the table to get market share. Copying nowadays will not get it done. Look to Bing as further proof of my point especially considering they were caught using Google for their search results.

Microsoft is now forced to display their creative and innovation chops. How does a company that built its brand and culture on copying turn around and become an innovative company all of a sudden? Leadership change.

In Microsoft internal meetings this week, Balmer was supposedly discussing Surface RT 2. Apparently Balmer will not be satisfied until Microsoft hits that iceberg. Forcing crap to the market that nobody wants is his idea of an effective strategy.
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Old Jul 29, 2013, 03:54 PM   #153
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Microsoft's problem is that they can't really copy anymore to stay competitive. That was MS modus operandi. They did it in the beginning to Apple, Mozilla, Novel, and quite a few others.
Ignoring the rest of your blatantly wrong and horribly skewed post...how the hell did they copy Mozilla? Do you mean Netscape? Yeah, IE came out about half a year after Navigator did, but the project was started a few months before it's initial release.

MS' crime wasn't copying Netscape, it was using their position to keep it's market share down by tying IE in deeply with Windows.
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Old Jul 29, 2013, 03:57 PM   #154
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What's really shocking is that Balmer actually thought RT would sell. Those of us who are familiar with how the average consumer thinks have predicted its failure from the moment it was announced. Most people do not use Windows out of a sense of loyalty or trust. They use it because that's what most software and hardware run on. Compatibility is Windows' #1 strength, and RT completely threw that out.
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Old Jul 29, 2013, 04:01 PM   #155
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What's really shocking is that Balmer actually thought RT would sell.
He was projecting a positive attitude.
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Old Jul 29, 2013, 04:01 PM   #156
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Ignoring the rest of your blatantly wrong and horribly skewed post...how the hell did they copy Mozilla? Do you mean Netscape? Yeah, IE came out about half a year after Navigator did, but the project was started a few months before it's initial release.

MS' crime wasn't copying Netscape, it was using their position to keep it's market share down by tying IE in deeply with Windows.
I figured you would chime in a pick a small piece of the entire post to harp on like usual.

IE copied Mozilla features and integrated IE into the OS. Ok, even if I am wrong and removed Mozilla/Netscape from the post, it's still a valid argument because the point remains the same.
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Old Jul 29, 2013, 04:24 PM   #157
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Originally Posted by Black Magic View Post
I figured you would chime in a pick a small piece of the entire post to harp on like usual.

IE copied Mozilla features and integrated IE into the OS. Ok, even if I am wrong and removed Mozilla/Netscape from the post, it's still a valid argument because the point remains the same.
What features did they copy? Did Netscape copy Mosaic to get to the point that MS could copy Netscape? How far down does the ripping off go?

Did MS rip off Apple after ripping off PARC over the concept of a GUI? Does it count that a bunch of PARC employees responsible for the creation of the GUI went to work for both Apple and Microsoft? Were they copying themselves?

How did MS copy Novell? With Office? The Office suite came out in 1989. I think the first version of Wordperfect came out around 1993 or so. What did they do? Fly into the future and steal from them?

Course there was a patent dispute, I think. And of course MS using underhanded tactics to maintain their lead against a competitor. But that's not copying now, is it?

Has everyone always hated MS? Nope. The MS hate train we're all riding on now didn't start until they established a monopoly and started throwing their weight around during the early 2000's. Beforehand, they were considered one of the best software houses in the industry. In fact, they still are by just about everyone except platform pundits overly attached to whatever company happened to woo them with their marketing spiel first, and posting crap on blogs and messageboards.

Listen. It all comes down to one very simple, sad fact: the copying argument is stupid, and the true originators of the industry are barely spoken about at all. Apple has had their moments. They're currently riding high on their most recent one. But if you look back at their history, you'll see they're about as bad as MS. Everyone copies at some point. MS and Apple both have stolen just as much as they've contributed.
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Old Jul 29, 2013, 04:38 PM   #158
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Originally Posted by Renzatic View Post
What features did they copy? Did Netscape copy Mosaic to get to the point that MS could copy Netscape? How far down does the ripping off go?

Did MS rip off Apple after ripping off PARC over the concept of a GUI? Does it count that a bunch of PARC employees responsible for the creation of the GUI went to work for both Apple and Microsoft? Were they copying themselves?

How did MS copy Novell? With Office? The Office suite came out in 1989. I think the first version of Wordperfect came out around 1993 or so. What did they do? Fly into the future and steal from them?

Course there was a patent dispute, I think. And of course MS using underhanded tactics to maintain their lead against a competitor. But that's not copying now, is it?

Has everyone always hated MS? Nope. The MS hate train we're all riding on now didn't start until they established a monopoly and started throwing their weight around during the early 2000's. Beforehand, they were considered one of the best software houses in the industry. In fact, they still are by just about everyone except platform pundits overly attached to whatever company happened to woo them with their marketing spiel first, and posting crap on blogs and messageboards.

Listen. It all comes down to one very simple, sad fact: the copying argument is stupid, and the true originators of the industry are barely spoken about at all. Apple has had their moments. They're currently riding high on their most recent one. But if you look back at their history, you'll see they're about as bad as MS. Everyone copies at some point. MS and Apple both have stolen just as much as they've contributed.
Just to be clear, MS copied Novell when it came to Active Directory.

Back to the point. Yes, everyone copies from time to time. Microsoft copies ALL the time. They are known for copying. When you look at Google, they are mostly an innovative company with copying sprinkled in. When you look at Apple, they are known as an innovative company with copying sprinkled in.

If you sit here and try to proclaim Microsoft as an innovative company, you are fooling yourself.
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Old Jul 29, 2013, 05:28 PM   #159
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Originally Posted by IGregory View Post
He was projecting a positive attitude.
If Ballmer didn't want his company to release RT, he could have terminated the project it before it was even announced.
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Old Jul 29, 2013, 05:29 PM   #160
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Originally Posted by Black Magic View Post
Just to be clear, MS copied Novell when it came to Active Directory.

Back to the point. Yes, everyone copies from time to time. Microsoft copies ALL the time. They are known for copying. When you look at Google, they are mostly an innovative company with copying sprinkled in. When you look at Apple, they are known as an innovative company with copying sprinkled in.

If you sit here and try to proclaim Microsoft as an innovative company, you are fooling yourself.
Microsoft's problem is branding. Their brand has eroded so much over the years that for most of the public, they can do no right, even when they are being innovative. Kinect, XB1, Windows 8, x86 tablets, converged laptop/tablets, WP8's infocentric UI are all bold innovations geared toward disruption but they suffer from poor marketing execution. Because MS's marketing department sucks

And most successful companies copy existing products with incremental innovations. Google didn't invent search or webmapping - they just had a better algorithm and implementation. The stuff they are innovating (IE X Labs) has no clear monetization path. Amazon ripped off the online bookstore from Charles Stack. Apple had Palm copy their Newton, yet they made a ton of money by putting out an MP3 player with incremental improvements. Then a smartphone, then a tablet. Xerox and Bell Labs were ripped off by everyone, the former by both Apple and MS.

Copying is normal in the tech world. Most innovations come from startups or academia, not Fortune 500 companies. There's a book out there called Fast Second that explains why
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Old Jul 29, 2013, 05:57 PM   #161
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Originally Posted by Liquorpuki View Post
Microsoft's problem is branding. Their brand has eroded so much over the years that for most of the public, they can do no right, even when they are being innovative. Kinect, XB1, Windows 8, x86 tablets, converged laptop/tablets, WP8's infocentric UI are all bold innovations geared toward disruption but they suffer from poor marketing execution. Because MS's marketing department sucks
It's not just marketing. One also needs considerable software support for a new platform to have any chance of succeeding in an already saturated market. Otherwise people will just stick to the platforms that already run all the programs they want. That's why no other desktop OS has ever come close the ubiquity of Windows.

To that end, the best thing Microsoft can probably do moving forward is to drop RT and put an Atom processor in the next-generation [low-end] Surface tablets. Atoms have been getting better when it comes to battery life, and while desktop applications are still a poor substitute for touch optimized ones, it's better than nothing.
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Old Jul 29, 2013, 06:00 PM   #162
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It is the best solution for the amount of RAM contained in current iOS devices.

As for smooth it works well enough on my iPad 3. The key is to close out unused but frozen apps. Again it comes back to memory, 1GB isn't really a lot and each frozen app apparently eats into that a little bit.

By the way I know the app when frozen is sent to flash but apparently some state information is maintained in RAM often leading to lose of RAM for the primary app.

In any event I don't know of a better way to do multitasking on an iPad with the current OS. Between the side swips and the up swipe you can get to any app you need pretty quick.
Or they could just do multi window like the Galaxy Tab/Note/S4.

But that would still probably be a couple years down the road once Apple can figure out how to market it like it's some new phenomenon or innovation.
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Old Jul 30, 2013, 02:18 AM   #163
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I accidentally read that as "We sold more devices than we could build", and was like "Wait... what?!"
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Old Jul 30, 2013, 06:56 AM   #164
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After seeing what happened to Blackberry and Windows tablets it clear to say that the competition should not be trying to compete with Apple, they should find a different niche that need filling.
As opposed to their current strategy of looking for a 'landfill' that needs filling
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Old Jul 30, 2013, 07:39 AM   #165
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I accidentally read that as "We sold more devices than we could build", and was like "Wait... what?!"
Microsofts sales department would like to hire you , your job will be liasing between reality and what Balmer reads.

It would appear your already good at it
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Old Jul 30, 2013, 07:08 PM   #166
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While I would still buy an iOS device, I think they make some valid points. I would like to be able to switch to having two apps run side by side at times. Hell, even if it was just two phone apps, that are intended for the small size, running side by side on the tablet. I can't count the number of times I have to switch back and forth between two apps to accomplish a single task. And to make matters worse, the double button click, then find the app and click method is annoyingly time consuming when you just want to go back to the previous app.
Try using 4 fingers to swipe left/right to switch apps. It's faster.
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Old Jul 30, 2013, 07:53 PM   #167
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To everyone commenting that m$ came to the party too late, not only are you wrong, but you are off by over two decades.

I don't know exactly when m$ began dumping millions of dollars in to table research and attempting to push tables on end users, but I know from personal observation that m$ has been pushing tablets since at least the mid 1990's. And they have failed at tablets time and time again.

It took Apple to show the industry how to do a tablet. The Surface tablet is just m$'s latest tablet failure, and not a "too late to the party to succeed" device.
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Old Aug 16, 2013, 08:41 PM   #168
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I'm running 8.1 (blue) beta at work.

No, it still sucks.
Im a hypocrite, but I actually like windows 8. Those animations have turned me haha. I heard 8.1 has even smoother animations etc, so even if it still sucks, It wont suck as much.
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Old Aug 16, 2013, 09:41 PM   #169
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"We're not selling as many Windows devices as we want to."

Gosh, 'Windows 8' ring out as a possible reason, genius? Um, just asking...

Remember 'Windows Millennium Edition'? 'Windows Vista'? Now 'Windows 8'? 'Windows RT'?

I'm surprised Balmer still has a job! Bill Clinton was impeached for a stained blue dress*.

*And, ironically, lying to a room full of professional liars.

----------

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Im a hypocrite, but I actually like windows 8. Those animations have turned me haha. I heard 8.1 has even smoother animations etc, so even if it still sucks, It wont suck as much.
I can see the commercials now: 'Buy Windows 8.1. It sucks less...'

After Vista, I wonder how people can put up with it... Seriously...

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Old Aug 26, 2013, 05:55 AM   #170
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Originally Posted by PinkyMacGodess View Post
"We're not selling as many Windows devices as we want to."

Gosh, 'Windows 8' ring out as a possible reason, genius? Um, just asking...

Remember 'Windows Millennium Edition'? 'Windows Vista'? Now 'Windows 8'? 'Windows RT'?

I'm surprised Balmer still has a job! Bill Clinton was impeached for a stained blue dress*.

*And, ironically, lying to a room full of professional liars.

----------



I can see the commercials now: 'Buy Windows 8.1. It's sucks less...'

After Vista, I wonder how people can put up with it... Seriously...
Apparently windows 8.1 is a free upgrade from windows 8.
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Old Aug 26, 2013, 06:30 AM   #171
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Apparently windows 8.1 is a free upgrade from windows 8.
When is it due? This could be interesting.

Funny that Microsoft announces Balmer's impending retirement and the stock price spikes up. Clue that you aren't doing a great job, they are happy that you are leaving. I wonder how soon the stockholders will start trying to push him out the door.

There's 'innovation', and then there's Windows 8...
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Old Oct 11, 2013, 01:49 PM   #172
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I would like to thank the 13 posters who mentioned the 4 or 5 finger swiping

It's really my fault that I wasn't clear about the exact nature of where I was coming from. I only own an iPhone 4, and so that's a frustration with it. And when I consider owning a tablet, I wish it could show apps side by side, even if that meant I had to launch a universal binary in an iPhone/iPod mode. But I'm grateful to find out that if I do get an iPad, the app switching is much faster.

Comparing the costs of a 2012 Nexus 7 to an iPad mini, I haven't convinced anyone switching from a PC to a tablet to go the Apple route though... It seems that only people I know who are already Apple users are getting iPads. For me, the high cost just means I haven't gotten any tablet, since my MacBook Air does everything I want.
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Old Oct 17, 2013, 11:40 AM   #173
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"We thank everyone for their patience, we're making iPads as fast as we can." - Steve Jobs
Forgot about that quote.

Nice one.
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