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Old Jun 16, 2014, 10:26 AM   #1
citizenzen
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SCOTUS rules against straw purchases

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The case began after Bruce James Abramski, Jr. bought a Glock 19 handgun in Collinsville, Virginia, in 2009 and later transferred it to his uncle in Easton, Pennsylvania. Abramski, a former police officer, had assured the Virginia dealer he was the "actual buyer" of the weapon even though he had already offered to buy the gun for his uncle using a police discount.

Abramski purchased the gun three days after his uncle had written him a check for $400 with "Glock 19 handgun" written in the memo line. During the transaction, he answered "yes" on a federal form asking "Are you the actual transferee buyer of the firearm(s) listed on this form? Warning: You are not the actual buyer if you are acquiring the firearm(s) on behalf of another person. If you are not the actual buyer, the dealer cannot transfer the firearm(s) to you."

http://www.cbsnews.com/news/supreme-...purchaser-law/
Justices voted 5-4 with Kennedy being the swing vote.

Straw purchases are a common way guns are funneled into criminal hands.

It's one small victory may help to reduce the ease with which people can acquire firearms.
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Old Jun 16, 2014, 10:50 AM   #2
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As a supporter of the 2nd Amendment (AKA gun nut to some), I find this to be a good ruling. If you can legally purchase a gun, then you should do it yourself and not have someone else do it for you.
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Old Jun 16, 2014, 10:55 AM   #3
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Originally Posted by ucfgrad93 View Post
As a supporter of the 2nd Amendment (AKA gun nut to some), I find this to be a good ruling. If you can legally purchase a gun, then you should do it yourself and not have someone else do it for you.
Agreed. All to save his Uncle a few bucks under the "blue label" program.
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Old Jun 16, 2014, 10:57 AM   #4
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In the end that will be an expensive discount.
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Old Jun 16, 2014, 11:07 AM   #5
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Originally Posted by ucfgrad93 View Post
As a supporter of the 2nd Amendment (AKA gun nut to some), I find this to be a good ruling. If you can legally purchase a gun, then you should do it yourself and not have someone else do it for you.
interesting
Quote:
The justices ruled 5-4 that the law applied to a Virginia man who bought a gun with the intention of transferring it to a relative in Pennsylvania who was not prohibited from owning firearms.
so HOW would you gift s shotgun/handgun/AR/rifle to your kids?
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Old Jun 16, 2014, 11:13 AM   #6
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Originally Posted by jkcerda View Post
so HOW would you gift s shotgun/handgun/AR/rifle to your kids?
You want to?

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Old Jun 16, 2014, 11:17 AM   #7
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Originally Posted by jkcerda View Post
interesting
so HOW would you gift s shotgun/handgun/AR/rifle to your kids?
Send them a check and let them go get the gun themselves.
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Old Jun 16, 2014, 11:21 AM   #8
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....
so HOW would you gift s shotgun/handgun/AR/rifle to your kids?
I presume you mean your offspring who are now responsible adults, yes?
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Old Jun 16, 2014, 11:24 AM   #9
citizenzen
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Originally Posted by jkcerda View Post
interesting
so HOW would you gift s shotgun/handgun/AR/rifle to your kids?
You fill out the federal form correctly.
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Old Jun 16, 2014, 11:24 AM   #10
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How very sensible of SCOTUS!
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Old Jun 16, 2014, 11:25 AM   #11
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How very sensible of SCOTUS!
Or at least 5 out of 9 of them.
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Old Jun 16, 2014, 11:26 AM   #12
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Or at least 5 out of 9 of them.
Yeah but that's how it usually goes down. Unfortunately.
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Old Jun 16, 2014, 11:40 AM   #13
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Originally Posted by citizenzen View Post
You fill out the federal form correctly.
This is correct.

Also, if you are buying the firearm as a gift, follow state laws (some require FFL for transfer (interstate and intrastate). Abramski used an FFL to transfer the Glock.

The problem was he was not the buyer.


ucfgrad's idea is simpler. Buy them a gift card or give them a check.
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Old Jun 16, 2014, 11:47 AM   #14
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Originally Posted by jkcerda View Post
interesting
so HOW would you gift s shotgun/handgun/AR/rifle to your kids?

If it were up to me, the purchasing adult would be responsible for that weapon until the minor turned 18, at which point they would need to pass a background check.
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Old Jun 16, 2014, 12:18 PM   #15
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If it's a gun you own, say one that you have purchased for yourself, you can sell it or transfer it with the proper paperwork. I wonder what will constitute ownership? Will there be a set time limit put on a firearm after purchase before it can be sold or transferred to another individual. Because they'd have a different battle on their hands if someone purchased the gun, shot it once, and transferred it with the excuse that they did not like it.
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Old Jun 16, 2014, 12:22 PM   #16
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allow me to re-phrase.
based on article
Quote:
The case began after Bruce James Abramski, Jr. bought a Glock 19 handgun in Collinsville, Virginia, in 2009 and later transferred it to his uncle in Easton, Pennsylvania. Abramski, a former police officer, had assured the Virginia dealer he was the "actual buyer" of the weapon even though he had already offered to buy the gun for his uncle using a police discount
right now some guns that ARE bought by LEO are later sold in the private market GLock 42 as an example, can this be consider a "straw purchase" IF the gun is legally bought & later sold?

Glock 42 & a few others are considered "off roster" here in CA.
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Old Jun 16, 2014, 12:29 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jkcerda View Post
allow me to re-phrase.
based on article

right now some guns that ARE bought by LEO are later sold in the private market GLock 42 as an example, can this be consider a "straw purchase" IF the gun is legally bought & later sold?

Glock 42 & a few others are considered "off roster" here in CA.
you've wandered way far away from the definition of a straw purchase with your example
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Old Jun 16, 2014, 12:35 PM   #18
VI™
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Originally Posted by jkcerda View Post
allow me to re-phrase.
based on article

right now some guns that ARE bought by LEO are later sold in the private market GLock 42 as an example, can this be consider a "straw purchase" IF the gun is legally bought & later sold?

Glock 42 & a few others are considered "off roster" here in CA.
I don't know. I think it would be up to the courts to decide. Did the person buy a weapon with the intent to own it and then later sell it? If so, then probably not, but if they bought it with the intent of purchasing it for someone else, then most definitely.

----------

In fact, there is apparently a national campaign aimed at preventing straw purchases, which will have to rethink what they're telling people.

http://www.dontlie.org/straw_purchasing.cfm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Don't Lie Campaign
Buying a gun for someone who is prohibited by law from possessing one or for someone who does not want his or her name associated with the transaction is a "straw purchase."

They state that a straw purchase is one that is made for an individual that can't legally purchase a firearm, which is the opposite of what the SCOTUS just ruled.
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Old Jun 16, 2014, 12:41 PM   #19
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Quote:
If you are not the actual buyer, the dealer cannot transfer the firearm(s) to you.
Honest question, how would you buy a gun as a gift? Is it even possible?
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Old Jun 16, 2014, 12:50 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jkcerda View Post
allow me to re-phrase.
based on article

right now some guns that ARE bought by LEO are later sold in the private market GLock 42 as an example, can this be consider a "straw purchase" IF the gun is legally bought & later sold?

Glock 42 & a few others are considered "off roster" here in CA.
I don't think the BATFE cares about the California firearms roster, it is a state issue. From my understanding, if the "off roster" firearm was registered legally in California, it can be transferred.

Your example is not a straw purchase.

----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by thejadedmonkey View Post
Honest question, how would you buy a gun as a gift? Is it even possible?
Posted above.

Quote:
Originally Posted by webbuzz View Post
This is correct.

Also, if you are buying the firearm as a gift, follow state laws (some require FFL for transfer (interstate and intrastate). Abramski used an FFL to transfer the Glock.

The problem was he was not the buyer.


ucfgrad's idea is simpler. Buy them a gift card or give them a check.
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Old Jun 16, 2014, 01:02 PM   #21
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Gifting is not a straw purchase. Though you have an issue if that person could not pass a background check which is required by law for all purchases made from a federally licensed dealer.

Giving someone money to buy a gun on your behalf is a straw purchase.

Buying a gun with the intent to sell it later is dealing firearms without a license, not a straw purchase.

----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by VI™ View Post
If it's a gun you own, say one that you have purchased for yourself, you can sell it or transfer it with the proper paperwork. I wonder what will constitute ownership? Will there be a set time limit put on a firearm after purchase before it can be sold or transferred to another individual. Because they'd have a different battle on their hands if someone purchased the gun, shot it once, and transferred it with the excuse that they did not like it.
This is legal to do in most cases, but expect a visit from the ATF if you have a pattern of buying firearms and selling them. This can be regarded as dealing without a license. Just depends on the circumstances being investigated.

In Utah, private gun sales are typically handled with a bill of sale, and showing of a CCW, Military or LEO ID.
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