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Old Jun 29, 2014, 07:02 AM   #876
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Those answers are much more difficult. For example we know how gravity works and that is appears to be consistent, based on known factors, but we don't know why it works do we?
Well, it all depends on how far down the rabbit hole you want to go. Or even which rabbit hole you want to look at. Relativity? Then it's mass. QM? You're looking at the graviton, as mentioned. But if you go deep enough then the answers become 'just because'. One of my favourite laws (yes, I have one) is conservation of angular momentum, because you can spin on a chair with your arms and legs spread out and then, almost miraculously, you speed up by simply bringing in your arms and legs. And this isn't down to friction, heat transfer, air resistance or anything like that. It's simply a law written in to the fabric of the Universe. Now, whether you invoke intelligent design to explain why those laws are there in the 1st place is up to you, but it isn't a given. And technology like the LHC is probing deeper in to these questions to try to find the answers to 'why?'

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Old Jun 29, 2014, 07:33 PM   #877
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British academic philosopher Simon Blackburn addresses arguments for/against the existence of God and discusses the value of religion.

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Old Jun 29, 2014, 07:47 PM   #878
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Can you honestly answer these questions:

Yes, as a free thinking Atheist I feel this should be no problem
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1. How did you become aware of your God?
I never was, I called this whole " god " thing out when I was about 8 years old as a bunch of nonsense.

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2. How did you become aware of your God's expectations and rules?
Hard to become aware when the God is not real.

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3. How did you decide that God is perfect?
Something that only exists in peoples imagination is easy to make perfect.

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4. How did you decide God is omnipotent?
God is not real, therefore this so called God cannot be omnipotent

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5. How did you decide you owe God your allegiance?
I don't feel like denying human rights based on a magic man. So no allegiance.

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6. How did you decide that God demands obedience and especially worship?
Don't worship/

But I think people who did, have had it pounded into their heads from birth

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6. How did you decide you don't have the right to question God?
Not until he makes me pizza.
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Old Jun 29, 2014, 09:24 PM   #879
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I never was, I called this whole " god " thing out when I was about 8 years old as a bunch of nonsense.



Hard to become aware when the God is not real.



Something that only exists in peoples imagination is easy to make perfect.



God is not real, therefore this so called God cannot be omnipotent



I don't feel like denying human rights based on a magic man. So no allegiance.



Don't worship/

But I think people who did, have had it pounded into their heads from birth



Not until he makes me pizza.
You are not a theist. Do you have some feelings that could be attributed to spirituality or philosophy regarding the meaning of life. This might be something you attribute to your life.
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Old Jun 30, 2014, 05:51 PM   #880
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I never was, I called this whole " god " thing out when I was about 8 years old as a bunch of nonsense.
I've never seen a better description of forum atheism!

A bunch of folks who are, maybe, just barely adults deciding they are smarter and wiser than billions of people over thousands of years in every corner of the world.

Forum atheists should elect an eight year old Pope for their religion!
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Old Jun 30, 2014, 06:11 PM   #881
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I've never seen a better description of forum atheism!

A bunch of folks who are, maybe, just barely adults deciding they are smarter and wiser than billions of people over thousands of years in every corner of the world.

Forum atheists should elect an eight year old Pope for their religion!
I expect there have always been disbelievers too in every corner of the globe, and besides, there is no reason to assume that the ignorance and credulity of a mass of invested superstitious primitives is likely to produce a smarter or wiser choice than that of a thoughtful and observant child.
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Old Jun 30, 2014, 07:13 PM   #882
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there is no reason to assume that the ignorance and credulity of a mass of invested superstitious primitives
Billions of your fellow human beings, over thousands of years, in every corner of world, most of the people who have ever lived, dismissed and insulted with a casual wave of the hand. Childlike.
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Old Jun 30, 2014, 07:26 PM   #883
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Billions of your fellow human beings, over thousands of years, in every corner of world, most of the people who have ever lived, dismissed and insulted with a casual wave of the hand. Childlike.
You may dislike the style of presentation...but I, for one, cannot disagree with the concept expressed in the post.
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Old Jun 30, 2014, 08:03 PM   #884
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Billions of your fellow human beings, over thousands of years, in every corner of world, most of the people who have ever lived, dismissed and insulted with a casual wave of the hand. Childlike.
Most of them also thought the sun revolved around the earth as well.
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Old Jun 30, 2014, 08:21 PM   #885
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I've never seen a better description of forum atheism!

A bunch of folks who are, maybe, just barely adults deciding they are smarter and wiser than billions of people over thousands of years in every corner of the world.
Can you explain this concept of wisdom in numbers? There have been some very smart people who debated the topic, but saying that many people believed it before you isn't very meaningful. It's hard not to see the harm religion has done over the centuries. It's used to control people by assigning a set of rules supposedly put forth by one deity or another.
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Old Jul 1, 2014, 02:13 AM   #886
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... A bunch of folks who are, maybe, just barely adults deciding they are smarter and wiser than billions of people over thousands of years in every corner of the world. ...
What exactly was it that you believe they were much smarter and wiser about?
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Old Jul 1, 2014, 02:39 AM   #887
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What exactly was it that you believe they were much smarter and wiser about?
You know, their historicalness....

Everyone in the before-times was smart and wise.

----------

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Billions of your fellow human beings, over thousands of years, in every corner of world, most of the people who have ever lived, dismissed and insulted with a casual wave of the hand. Childlike.
Don't worry, you'll be dismissed with a casual wave of the hand not too many years from now as well. We know nothing today compared to what people even in 100 years will know. Will you be insulted from the grave? Up to you. That would be pretty childlike.
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Old Jul 1, 2014, 03:05 AM   #888
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You know, their historicalness....

Everyone in the before-times was smart and wise ...
I thought maybe it had something to do with ancient astronauts...
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Old Jul 1, 2014, 04:08 AM   #889
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I'll standby patiently until the clever quip storm passes....
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Old Jul 1, 2014, 04:21 AM   #890
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Can you explain this concept of wisdom in numbers? There have been some very smart people who debated the topic, but saying that many people believed it before you isn't very meaningful. It's hard not to see the harm religion has done over the centuries. It's used to control people by assigning a set of rules supposedly put forth by one deity or another.
Well, as a place to start, involving lots of actually smart people might give us the wisdom to have the very basic understanding that there's much more to religion than just ideological assertions.

People on forums tend to be interested in ONLY the ideological assertions part of religion, because they aren't actually interested in learning anything about religion at all, but are seeking a debate experience and assertions are the easiest thing to debate.

Speaking to no one in particular, it's not really worth it to spoon feed this subject to readers whose only interest is in having something to burp back up.
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Old Jul 1, 2014, 09:24 AM   #891
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Well, as a place to start, involving lots of actually smart people might give us the wisdom to have the very basic understanding that there's much more to religion than just ideological assertions.
I'd suggest it is somewhat hypocritical of you to use an appeal to authority logical fallacy here when less than a page ago you were undermining an incredibly intelligent man with a terrible strawman argument;

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I saw Stephen Hawking doing this dance on Netflix the other day, trying to explain away God with a mechanical diagram of the big bang.
The intelligence of people that believe X does not give it weight. The weight of the reasoning behind X is what gives something it's weight.
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Old Jul 1, 2014, 05:45 PM   #892
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For the record, here's what Steven Hawkins has to say about the absurd question "Did a god create the universe?"...

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Old Jul 1, 2014, 06:12 PM   #893
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Yes, good link, I just watched that video and it's educational and entertaining. Cool science, junky theology. Been discussing it on another forum, and we've more or less decided that the God angle is just Hawkings way of boosting sales. Not a crime, but not really science either.
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Old Jul 1, 2014, 06:20 PM   #894
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Yes, good link, I just watched that video and it's educational and entertaining. Cool science, junky theology. Been discussing it on another forum, and we've more or less decided that the God angle is just Hawkings way of boosting sales. Not a crime, but not really science either.
And "Intelligent Design" isn't really science, is it? And yet, theologists seem to rely on it, quite heavily at times, to support their claims.
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Old Jul 1, 2014, 08:33 PM   #895
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Contains Substantial Spoilers regarding the movie Oblivion and The Island






Several days ago there was a post by Localoid regarding Carl Jung and collective consciousness. Then I watched Oblivion a story where a form of collective consciousness exists between clones, residual memories. This concept was also presented in The Island another scifi movie. I wonder if Jung's writings have an impact on these stories? This got me interested enough to read about Carl Jung. I'll report back.
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Old Jul 1, 2014, 08:38 PM   #896
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Contains Substantial Spoilers regarding the movie Oblivion and The Island






Several days ago there was a post by Localoid regarding Carl Jung and collective consciousness. Then I watched Oblivion a story where a form of collective consciousness exists between clones, residual memories. This concept was also presented in The Island another scifi movie. I wonder if Jung's writings have an impact on these stories? This got me interested enough to read about Carl Jung. I'll report back.
Just a note that while Jung may be of historical interest, he certainly is not a hot topic in psychology, as his theories are more more closely related to philosophy, or perhaps theology. As a psychological theory...not so much.
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Old Jul 1, 2014, 08:45 PM   #897
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... This got me interested enough to read about Carl Jung. I'll report back.
Just looking at Jung's paintings in his "Red Book" can be mind-blowing enough -- little or no reading required!

Thumb resize.

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Just a note that while Jung may be of historical interest, he certainly is not a hot topic in psychology, as his theories are more more closely related to philosophy, or perhaps theology. As a psychological theory...not so much.
And yet wasn't he a pioneer of analytical psychology?
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