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Old Jan 4, 2014, 05:28 PM   #51
bradl
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Technarchy View Post
Immigrating to the USA is not a god given right. It doesn't happen for everyone. For those that don't, get over it and enjoy life somewhere else.
nobody said it was a god-given right. But then again, So sayeth the Statue of Liberty:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_New_Colossus#Contents

Quote:
Originally Posted by New Colossus
The title of the poem and the first two lines refer to the Colossus of Rhodes, one of the Seven Wonders of the Ancient World. The poem talks about the millions of immigrants who came to the United States (many of them through Ellis Island at the port of New York).
The "air-bridged harbor that twin cities frame" refers to New York City and Brooklyn, not yet consolidated into one unit in 1883.
Not like the brazen giant of Greek fame,
With conquering limbs astride from land to land;
Here at our sea-washed, sunset gates shall stand
A mighty woman with a torch, whose flame
Is the imprisoned lightning, and her name
Mother of Exiles. From her beacon-hand
Glows world-wide welcome; her mild eyes command
The air-bridged harbor that twin cities frame.
"Keep, ancient lands, your storied pomp!" cries she
With silent lips. "Give me your tired, your poor,
Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free,
The wretched refuse of your teeming shore.
Send these, the homeless, tempest-tost to me,
I lift my lamp beside the golden door!"
So again: slap in the face to this guy, who worked his arse off to get to where he is at. Our immigration system let him down, and it says a lot about how much of an isolationist you want this country to be.

EDIT:And you still haven't answered my question. How long is too long to wait for legal immigration status? This guy has nearly waited half his life. How long do you think he should have to wait, especially if he is contributing more to this society and economy than others in his situation?

BL.
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Old Jan 4, 2014, 05:30 PM   #52
macmesser
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Originally Posted by ucfgrad93 View Post
Agreed



Agreed. He should not be allowed to practice law until he is here legally.
I'd say he is just as cynical as he is hypocritical. I don't know too many Americans who would illegally enter and live in a foreign country, then complain that they are not afforded every right and privilege enjoyed by it's citizens. People like him think the USA is an economic opportunity zone rather than a country. I wonder what field of law he intends to practice in?
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Old Jan 4, 2014, 05:34 PM   #53
Technarchy
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Originally Posted by bradl View Post

EDIT:And you still haven't answered my question. How long is too long to wait for legal immigration status? This guy has nearly waited half his life. How long do you think he should have to wait, especially if he is contributing more to this society and economy than others in his situation?

BL.
He can wait until he is dead and buried. Immigration is a privilege not a right.
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Old Jan 4, 2014, 05:35 PM   #54
macmesser
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Maybe he can do that but who is he going to represent? Other illegals? Who would want to be represented by someone who is not here legally?
Exactly. That most likely is is plan.
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Old Jan 4, 2014, 05:42 PM   #55
bradl
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Originally Posted by Technarchy View Post
He can wait until he is dead and buried. Immigration is a privilege not a right.
wow. very sad and pathetic.

Perhaps you should kick yourself out; you're an immigrant too, you know.

BL.
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Old Jan 4, 2014, 06:07 PM   #56
Technarchy
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Originally Posted by bradl View Post
wow. very sad and pathetic.

Perhaps you should kick yourself out; you're an immigrant too, you know.

BL.
Not quite, but whatever helps you sleep at night.

You knows what's pathetic, calling yourself a lawyer and being here illegally. It's also ironic...and sad.
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Old Jan 4, 2014, 07:27 PM   #57
mrkramer
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Originally Posted by Technarchy View Post
What happens when there is a Chinese illegal, or Russian, or African?

Will they be given a pass too?
There are quite a few illegal immigrants from those areas. My guess is it would be less of an issue if the guy was from one of those places especially if he was white from Eastern Europe. I don't know that for sure but it's somewhat implied in what I quoted below which seems to be a fairly common view among people who want to deport all of these people.

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Originally Posted by Technarchy View Post
We don't have an immigration problem. We have a Central and South America immigration problem because those areas have some strange notion that the rule of law should not apply to them in the United States.
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Old Jan 4, 2014, 07:28 PM   #58
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Originally Posted by Technarchy View Post
You knows what's pathetic, calling yourself a lawyer and being here illegally. It's also ironic...and sad.
If he just popped up over the border, I could maybe understand your point. But...jesus, man. He's been living here for a majority of his life, and has been trying to get citizenship for 20 years now. By this point, him NOT being a hardworking, tax paying American is more a failure of the system than any fault of his end.

What else do you want him to do? Move back to Mexico, where he has nothing waiting for him? Get a low paying job flipping hamburgers until he gets a green card, likely using welfare to support himself because he won't be able do it on that hourly wage he's been forced into? Hell, he was educated here, has gone farther than most. He now has a useful skill to contribute to society. He should get citizenship based on that alone.
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Old Jan 4, 2014, 07:42 PM   #59
bradl
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If he just popped up over the border, I could maybe understand your point. But...jesus, man. He's been living here for a majority of his life, and has been trying to get citizenship for 20 years now. By this point, him NOT being a hardworking, tax paying American is more a failure of the system than any fault of his end.

What else do you want him to do? Move back to Mexico, where he has nothing waiting for him? Get a low paying job flipping hamburgers until he gets a green card, likely using welfare to support himself because he won't be able do it on that hourly wage he's been forced into? Hell, he was educated here, has gone farther than most. He now has a useful skill to contribute to society. He should get citizenship based on that alone.
Agreed. And it isn't even citizenship at this point; it is mere RESIDENCY. 20 years to just get that, and he'd still have another 7-10 tears for that...

And yet we've had Nazi war criminals take less time to get both residency and citizenship in this country. That is sad and pathetic,

BL.
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Old Jan 4, 2014, 08:00 PM   #60
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Originally Posted by bradl View Post
Agreed. And it isn't even citizenship at this point; it is mere RESIDENCY. 20 years to just get that, and he'd still have another 7-10 tears for that...
Exactly. It common sense that if you've been here for a large percentage of your life, residency should be a default.

Then again, my solution to the immigrant problem would be to round any illegals up who have been here for 3+ years, take them to a local school gym, and start handing out social security cards. As they leave with their newly granted citizenship, they see a big banner hung over the exit door. "Bienvenidos Taxpayers"!

Cuz let's face the reality of the situation, they want to be here, and the vast majority of them end up finding a way to stay here. Preventing millions of people from coming across a very large border would cost roughly 100,000x more than it would having them living here undocumented. They might as well make themselves comfy, and directly support the system they so desperately want to be a part of.

"But what about jobs? What if some Mexican comes over here, goes to school, becomes a lawyer, and takes business away from a legal, born and raised resident"?

...guess that born and raised resident should've done more to compete in the marketplace. You know, bootstraps and all that. It's a double edged sword.

Quote:
And yet we've had Nazi war criminals take less time to get both residency and citizenship in this country. That is sad and pathetic,
Well, at least Wernher Von Braun wasn't a bad Nazi...
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Old Jan 5, 2014, 12:42 AM   #61
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Originally Posted by mrkramer View Post
There are quite a few illegal immigrants from those areas. My guess is it would be less of an issue if the guy was from one of those places especially if he was white from Eastern Europe. I don't know that for sure but it's somewhat implied in what I quoted below which seems to be a fairly common view among people who want to deport all of these people.
Because and Haitians are Chinese are known for being from Eastern Europe. Please...
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Old Jan 5, 2014, 01:05 AM   #62
bradl
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Originally Posted by Technarchy View Post
Not quite, but whatever helps you sleep at night.
Unless your descendants were part of one of the Indian tribes that inhabited this land prior to Columbus or Leif Ericcson, you're the descendant of an immigrant; one who stepped off the boat into this country.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Renzatic View Post
Well, at least Wernher Von Braun wasn't a bad Nazi...
I was actually thinking of Michael Karkoc, among at least four others, but Von Braun will suffice as well.

So homework assignment, Technarchy: Justify these. Justify how these people, who are known to be Nazis, were granted US residency and citizenship, despite the crimes and atrocities they have committed, and compare that to what Garcia has done.

In fact, Garcia has been the epitome of libertarian:
  1. He has asked for nothing to fund his education. Not a single cent from anyone. That would make both Blues and Reds happy.
  2. He has followed the law in regards to his application for residency; something to make the most staunch immigration complainer applaud.

He pulled his own weight; something a lot of natural born citizens in this country can't and don't do.

Perhaps what we are seeing in this thread is jealousy; the mere fact that someone who doesn't have what others here have has made better for himself, and it really must stick in their craw that they haven't done as much, especially with something they take for granted.

BL.
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Old Jan 5, 2014, 01:46 AM   #63
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Because and Haitians are Chinese are known for being from Eastern Europe. Please...
I can't really make sense of your sentence here... Are you trying to say that there aren't illegal immigrants from places other than Central and South America?
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Old Jan 5, 2014, 07:34 PM   #64
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Originally Posted by chrono1081 View Post
And I'm sure you would feel just the same if you were in his shoes...
If I were in his shoes I would have the integrity to comply with the law, rather than violate it.
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Old Jan 5, 2014, 07:46 PM   #65
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Originally Posted by bradl View Post
Unless your descendants were part of one of the Indian tribes that inhabited this land prior to Columbus or Leif Ericcson, you're the descendant of an immigrant; one who stepped off the boat into this country.
If you are going to be reductionist at least do it properly. Native Americans come from Russia.
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Old Jan 5, 2014, 08:19 PM   #66
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If you are going to be reductionist at least do it properly. Native Americans come from Russia.
That's only a hypotheses based on similar genetic mutations found.
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Old Jan 5, 2014, 08:32 PM   #67
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If I were in his shoes I would have the integrity to comply with the law, rather than violate it.
That's the hallmark of an ethical lawyer.

There may have been a statement on his bar application that said something like I am not violating any laws of this state currently in force, or something to that effect. The bar application is signed under penalty of perjury (or notarized), which may have been the sticking point. If it was untrue, and it appears it was, he could not complete the form.
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Old Jan 5, 2014, 10:18 PM   #68
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I was actually thinking of Michael Karkoc, among at least four others, but Von Braun will suffice as well.
Comparing Karkoc and the rest to Von Braun is a little difficult, since it wasn't like we welcomed the former into the country with open arms. They came onshore when getting your citizenship wasn't nearly as stringent a process, and they lied to have it granted to them. We didn't exactly put our best effort forward to get rid of them, but we made it well known that we didn't want them around either.

Von Braun? We practically threw a ticker tape parade for him when he arrived, and for good reason. He all but built our space program for us. Whether this was justifiable or not depends on how you look at it. For one, not all Nazis were terrible people, and Von Braun wasn't exactly a popular member of the party. But he was the mind behind the V2 rocket, which were responsible for a great many deaths in London during The Blitz.

Von Braun lies in a dark grey area. He wasn't the worst around, and he wasn't a flat out war criminal, but he does have blood on his hands, at least indirectly.
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Old Jan 5, 2014, 11:00 PM   #69
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Originally Posted by edk99 View Post
Your title is misleading. An immigrant is someone who came to this country through the legal channels and became a permanent resident and either has a green card or when through the process to become a US citizen.
Actually, no. An immigrant is a person who has come to live in different country from their birthplace.

Quite trying to change the language to suit your argument.

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Originally Posted by Technarchy View Post
Seems like a lawyer should know the laws of land and comply with them 100%.
You're right. A lawyer should never have sexual intercourse with a rodeo clown on a Tuesday, nor should female lawyers wear pants since that's also illegal.

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Originally Posted by Tomorrow View Post
Why not? I'm a licensed engineer, if I'm incarcerated my license gets revoked. You can also have your application denied if you have a felony conviction. A law license shouldn't be any different.
Your entire idea hangs around the word "conviction." That's an important distinction.

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Originally Posted by tgara View Post
That's the hallmark of an ethical lawyer.

There may have been a statement on his bar application that said something like I am not violating any laws of this state currently in force, or something to that effect. The bar application is signed under penalty of perjury (or notarized), which may have been the sticking point. If it was untrue, and it appears it was, he could not complete the form.
As I understand it, he wasn't violating any laws of the United States when he took the bar because he was in the United States with a green card, but has yet to receive a visa number.

So, as far as DHS is concerned, he's in the country legally.
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Old Jan 6, 2014, 12:38 AM   #70
bradl
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If you are going to be reductionist at least do it properly. Native Americans come from Russia.
Actually, while correct, they came from Africa, as we all did. But furthermore, they walked to the Americas, via the land bridge that separated the Americas from Russia.

Fast forward a couple thousand years: that land bridge is now the Bering Sea, causing everyone else not here to take a boat.

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Actually, no. An immigrant is a person who has come to live in different country from their birthplace.

Quite trying to change the language to suit your argument.
Well said.

Quote:

As I understand it, he wasn't violating any laws of the United States when he took the bar because he was in the United States with a green card, but has yet to receive a visa number.

So, as far as DHS is concerned, he's in the country legally.
That is pretty much how the courts summed it up as well, and is another good point that those vocal against it (they know who they are in this thread) have completely ignored.

Again, their anger and dismay are misplaced; they should be directed at DHS, ICE, and INS, not Garcia.

BL.
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Old Jan 7, 2014, 10:39 AM   #71
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http://news.yahoo.com/immigrant-figh...081031894.html

I think this is a very interesting situation. The man came here as a child, worked hard, and followed the true American Dream. Isn't this exactly what the American Dream is all about? He worked his a*s off, working in the fields and at a local grocery store to pursue his dream and education. He passed the California BAR on his first try.

I'd like to hear the thoughts of the MacRumor's community and your reasons for or against him getting his license to practice law.
That's a tough one. On one hand the guy worked through the requirements to pass the BAR and he should be a licensed lawyer, period.

On the other hand, California is unlike a lot of states and have four basic paths to becoming a lawyer:

1) get four year degree, go to ABA law school, and pass the BAR

2) self study under a lawyer, the way it had been done for hundreds of years, and pass

3) go to non-ABA school, and depending on particular school's requirements, pass the baby BAR in first year and full BAR after graduation (but some non-ABA schools are California accredited and don't require the baby BAR)

4) a combination of the above criteria

After one passes the requirements, it has to be determined that the candidate is not somebody who breaks the law, well, like an illegal immigrant.

The arguments for or against this person will rage on but eventually, especially due to the large number of illegal immigrants who have done well in many other fields, such a person will become a lawyer without any controversy.

Last edited by 63dot; Jan 7, 2014 at 02:04 PM.
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Old Jan 8, 2014, 10:07 AM   #72
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I'd like to hear the thoughts of the MacRumor's community and your reasons for or against him getting his license to practice law.
Because he isn't here legally.

Let him finish his immigration and then let him be a lawyer.

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Originally Posted by 63dot View Post
T

After one passes the requirements, it has to be determined that the candidate is not somebody who breaks the law, well, like an illegal immigrant.
Well there ya go.
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Old Jan 8, 2014, 10:11 AM   #73
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Because he isn't here legally.

Let him finish his immigration and then let him be a lawyer.



Well there ya go.
Quote:
Originally Posted by hulugu
he wasn't violating any laws of the United States when he took the bar because he was in the United States with a green card, but has yet to receive a visa number.

So, as far as DHS is concerned, he's in the country legally.
Well there ya go.

Thank you for proving my point about those who are against this completely ignoring the above point.

BL.
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Old Jan 8, 2014, 10:42 AM   #74
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When you enter law school, at least in California, you have to register with the California Bar in SF and pay a "fee".

But this $92 dollar fee is not for no reason. This enters you as starting the system and becoming an officer of the court (law studnets, bailiffs, court reporters, lawyers, paralegals, judges, etc all have to be on file as officers of the court). They then check you out so you are deemed legal and not a felon or some uber smart 10 year old and that you actually exist.

So when it comes time to take the bar, they already should know you took the LSAT, got accepted and entered law school and paid the California bar fee, got into your second and third years, graduated, and then applied for the exam.
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