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Old Feb 4, 2013, 11:30 PM   #51
snberk103
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pprior View Post
Ok mr Smartie pants:


transitive verb
1
archaic : curse
2
: to prohibit especially by legal means <ban discrimination>; also : to prohibit the use, performance, or distribution of <ban a book> <ban a pesticide>
3
: bar 3c <banned from the U.N.>


What part of "prohibit by legal means the distribution of" does not apply here?

The EU is prohibiting the distribution of these products due to their sissy girl rules after a certain date. Yes, apple can change to meet their rules, but then it's not the same product, now is it? The BOTTOM LINE is the there is a LEGAL RESTRICTION on the mac pro as it currently exists, and that, Mr. Semantics, is a FREAKING BAN.

You now may return to your girly man life.
...
Yes it is a ban. Bans are not good or bad in themselves...they are tool and the use of the ban is either seen as positive or negative. No it is not a ban on Apple's Mac Pros. It is a ban on products that don't meet certain regulations. Apple was not specifically named in the ban. They chose to not meet the regulations.

In the US there is a ban on chocolates that contain toys inside. The rest of the world does not ban Kinder Surprises. It is not technically a ban on Kinder Surprises - just a ban on dangerous chocolates... because we all know more children die by toys inside a chocolate than by guns.

I think the US also bans raw cheeses, that global plague... am I mistaken in that?
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Old Feb 5, 2013, 03:18 AM   #52
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Originally Posted by slughead View Post
Recently several countries introduced a requirement that even internal fans need to have grills on them to prevent you from hurting your wittle fingers.

Question: When in the vicinity of the Mac Pro, do you often fear for your safety and the safety of those around you in light of the lack of fan guards?

Question2: Are you satisfied European governments are protecting customers from this product by making it illegal to sell it there? Should they introduce those requirements here in the US?

Question3: Is it not clearly Apple's fault they are not in compliance and should they not be ashamed to have endangered customers by not protecting the mentally-challenged against obvious potential finger injury?

For the Lulz.
1) My Mac Pro is sitting on the floor behind me under a table. I had a lock on the Mac Pro, so no I do not have the fear that I will touch the fans nor do I have any concerns a child may open it since it's locked.

2) I think European governments spend way too much on non-essential regulation; no there is reason why we are recovering from the recent depression whereas half of Europe is going bankrupt.

3) Perhaps we should suggest Apple introduce a screening for possible stupid buyers.
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Old Feb 5, 2013, 09:49 AM   #53
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Originally Posted by snberk103 View Post
Argue with adults much?

Yes it is a ban. Bans are not good or bad in themselves...they are tool and the use of the ban is either seen as positive or negative. No it is not a ban on Apple's Mac Pros. It is a ban on products that don't meet certain regulations. Apple was not specifically named in the ban. They chose to not meet the regulations.

In the US there is a ban on chocolates that contain toys inside. The rest of the world does not ban Kinder Surprises. It is not technically a ban on Kinder Surprises - just a ban on dangerous chocolates... because we all know more children die by toys inside a chocolate than by guns.

I think the US also bans raw cheeses, that global plague... am I mistaken in that?
So we're slowly walking back the stupidity. First it's "not a ban", now you admit it is.

The point made, and one that the estrogen enhanced among this thread have yet to debunk, is that this BAN is absolutely ludicrous. While I would argue that raw milk and cheese should be available to individuals, certainly a counterpoint could be made that people HAVE died from these. On the contrary, those of you supporting the nanny state have not only been unable to provide a single incident where someone was hurt, but not even a plausible mechanism for any injury whatsoever.

You could put ANY part of your body (use your imagination) into the fans on the mac pro and not sustain any injury beyond a slight red mark. And to even encounter a situation where contact would be made, you have to be mucking about inside, and in case you've forgotten to read your manual, there is a huge WARNING already in there about your chance of death if you dare to open it.

How far we have sunk. Our forefathers dare to explore the world, conquer the elements, build new lands. And people like you think it's fine to continue to sink the whole world deeper into regulation and governmental control in the asinine attempt to eliminate any possible tiny risk to our lives.

Grow a pair.
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Old Feb 5, 2013, 11:15 AM   #54
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Originally Posted by snberk103 View Post
...
In the US there is a ban on chocolates that contain toys inside. The rest of the world does not ban Kinder Surprises.
This isn't a Europe vs US thing. I think that ban is stupid too.

Quote:
Originally Posted by snberk103 View Post
I think the US also bans raw cheeses, that global plague... am I mistaken in that?
There is no ban at the Federal level. There are some city, county, or state-wide laws that either ban or restrict it. In my area it is legal.
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Old Feb 5, 2013, 11:47 AM   #55
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So we're slowly walking back the stupidity. First it's "not a ban", now you admit it is.
1) First time I've weighed in on the "ban" thing... so I "admit" nothing.... or I "admit" everything. However, it means I have not changed my mind.
2) You do actually, occasionally make, a good point. But because you bury them in insulting language they are not taken seriously. Your debating style makes it appear to be that of an immature student.
3) I edited out my "argue with adults" comment because .... well, it was childish.
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Originally Posted by pprior View Post
The point made, and one that the estrogen enhanced ...
Are you insulting women here? tsk tsk
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Originally Posted by pprior View Post
among this thread have yet to debunk, is that this BAN
Yep - it's a ban. Never said otherwise. It is a tool that can be used for good or bad. It is not a ban on Apple's Mac Pro - it is a ban on products that don't meet a certain standard. They also ban all sorts of other things. Like food that is not labeled as being genetically modified. (Which, btw, effectively 'bans' a lot of US made food products.)
Quote:
Originally Posted by pprior View Post
is absolutely ludicrous.
Why do you care? The EU is a democracy. They do what they want, and you do what you want. It's called a "free world".
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Originally Posted by pprior View Post
While I would argue that raw milk and cheese should be available to individuals, certainly a counterpoint could be made that people HAVE died from these.
Yes, they do, sometimes. Everything kills somebody sometimes. But these products just co-incidentally were imported foods that were taking sales from domestic production in states with strong lobbies.
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Originally Posted by pprior View Post
On the contrary, those of you supporting the nanny state have not only been unable to provide a single incident where someone was hurt, but not even a plausible mechanism for any injury whatsoever.
Not the point. In a perfect world the safety certification people will make a product safe before anybody is hurt. This is called 'proactive' (rather than 'reactive'). Check the bottom of any of your appliances. If you are in North America, you should see either a UL or a CSA sticker - the two biggest safety standard organizations. It means that appliance was checked for safety before it was put up for sale.

Not the EU regulation does not ban the sale of Mac Pros. It bans the importation of Mac Pros after a certain date. Not having a UL or CSA (or similar) sticker in facts bans the sale of a device.... a much harsher ban.

btw the US bans the importation of certain lumber products from Canada despite a free trade deal - how ludicrous is that, eh?
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Originally Posted by pprior View Post
You could put ANY part of your body (use your imagination) into the fans on the mac pro and not sustain any injury beyond a slight red mark. And to even encounter a situation where contact would be made, you have to be mucking about inside, and in case you've forgotten to read your manual, there is a huge WARNING already in there about your chance of death if you dare to open it.
Not the point. The EU, with lots of warning and chances for appeal from all makers, enacted a regulation. Apple chose not certify their product. My suspicion is that the modification is trivial, but the certification is expensive. Other makers chose to certify at least some of their products. Apple chose not to. It's a free world, and free market, they can do what they want.
Quote:
Originally Posted by pprior View Post
How far we have sunk. Our forefathers dare to explore the world, conquer the elements, build new lands.
On someone else's land, but that is another debate. I refer you to #IdleNoMore....
Quote:
Originally Posted by pprior View Post
And people like you think it's fine to continue to sink the whole world deeper into regulation and governmental control in the asinine attempt to eliminate any possible tiny risk to our lives.

Grow a pair.
oooohh... another adult quip.... they just come fast and furious ...

Government regulations also banned the use of child labour; sixty hour work weeks; drinking while driving; the use of uncalibrated scales in stores; using untempered glass that cut people to shreds in cars; the use of lead in paint (young children were licking paint); the use of lead in your drinking water pipes; the use of toxic materials in children's toys and clothing; etc etc

Safety standards are a tool - like bans - that often do good. Sometimes the people we elect go a bit too far. Is that their fault, or the people who gave them the job in the first place?

So... instead of "growing a pair" (a pair of what? - the mind boggles at the possibilities...) I will just carry on... thanks....

----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by ActionableMango View Post
This isn't a Europe vs US thing. I think that ban is stupid too.
No, it's not. But the poster I'm responding to is trying to paint the EU in a negative way, which implies that another nation is 'better'. I agree that this regulation needs to be looked at in a European context, to understand it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ActionableMango View Post
There is no ban at the Federal level. There are some city, county, or state-wide laws that either ban or restrict it. In my area it is legal.
Are you sure? I will have to look into this. My understanding may be outdated.
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Old Feb 5, 2013, 12:28 PM   #56
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They should just ban all things with moving parts. You can't be too careful!
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Old Feb 5, 2013, 12:30 PM   #57
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sorry can noo type correctly. lost ttoo many fingers in mmac pro fans ...
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Old Feb 5, 2013, 01:04 PM   #58
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Old Feb 5, 2013, 01:21 PM   #59
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Are you sure? I will have to look into this. My understanding may be outdated.
100% certain. It is legal in Washington State, where I live.
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Old Feb 5, 2013, 01:36 PM   #60
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100% certain. It is legal in Washington State, where I live.
You're right, it's state law that makes raw milk illegal.... And rightly so; people who drink raw milk should be shot (for their own protection!)
http://youtu.be/ioN0ehlyyXI
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Old Feb 5, 2013, 08:20 PM   #61
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Originally Posted by snberk103 View Post
...
I think the US also bans raw cheeses, that global plague... am I mistaken in that?
Raw milk and raw milk products are legal in something like 30 of 50 states. Their sale across state lines on the other hand is banned.

As it should be. Raw milk is considerable source of food related disease outbreaks. Pasteurization is right up there with "Clean water".

Mainly, I'm finding this thread surreal. I've entered some weird alternate universe where consumer protections are too *strong*, and haven't been under attack for a decade or two.

What color is the sun in this strange place?
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Old Feb 5, 2013, 11:30 PM   #62
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ActionableMango View Post
...
There is no ban at the Federal level. There are some city, county, or state-wide laws that either ban or restrict it. In my area it is legal.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ActionableMango View Post
100% certain. It is legal in Washington State, where I live.
Quote:
Originally Posted by FluJunkie View Post
Raw milk and raw milk products are legal in something like 30 of 50 states. Their sale across state lines on the other hand is banned.
...
Did some reading up... and... I was not entirely correct:

The US does not ban the sale of raw milk, except when it does.

Quote:
Interstate commerce : No[t permitted]
Intrastate commerce (state legislation) :
26/50 States ban the sales of raw milk
for human consumption:
...The other states allow the sale of raw
milk for human consumption, but
severely restrict sales by quantity, by
type, or by requiring physician approval
or warning labels...
Wisconsin allows only the "occasional"
or "incidental" purchase of raw milk for
personal use directly from a farmer. …
The US does not ban the manufacture of raw milk cheeses, except when it does. Raw cheeses must be aged for at least 60 says. Which is fine if you like cheddar, but not so much for many other cheeses.

The US does not ban the importation of raw cheeses, except when it does. Imported cheeses must meet the 60 day requirement. Which if fine if you like cheddar…. Many cheeses peak at about 30 days, btw.

Link

So, why not stop bashing the EU as the nanny state villain here. Many countries, including my own, have rules that may appear stupid. There is no monopoly on stupid rules.
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Last edited by snberk103; Feb 6, 2013 at 10:48 AM.
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Old Feb 6, 2013, 03:12 AM   #63
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sorry can noo type correctly. lost ttoo many fingers in mmac pro fans ...
You made me LOL x2, you poor sot.

EDIT: x3
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Old Feb 6, 2013, 03:34 AM   #64
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1) My Mac Pro is sitting on the floor behind me under a table. I had a lock on the Mac Pro, so no I do not have the fear that I will touch the fans nor do I have any concerns a child may open it since it's locked.

2) I think European governments spend way too much on non-essential regulation; no there is reason why we are recovering from the recent depression whereas half of Europe is going bankrupt.

3) Perhaps we should suggest Apple introduce a screening for possible stupid buyers.
There are countries in europe that are going bankrupt just like there are states in the U.S. that either are or very close. If this is non-essential then does someone want to explain the ban on überraschungsei?
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Old Feb 6, 2013, 11:51 AM   #65
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So, why not stop bashing the EU as the nanny state villain here. Many countries, including my own, have rules that may appear stupid. There is no monopoly on stupid rules.
If you are referring to me, I specific said it's not a EU vs US thing and I agree with your sentiment.

In any case, this whole thread is completely derailed now. I'm out.
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Old Feb 6, 2013, 12:42 PM   #66
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If you are referring to me, I specific said it's not a EU vs US thing and I agree with your sentiment.

In any case, this whole thread is completely derailed now. I'm out.
No... it wasn't you. There was an element of red-white-blue chest-thumping creeping into the thread.

And yes.. the thread was derailed....

-----------------------------

But in other news....

There is a report on Mac Rumours about a French source that says new Mac Pros are being released in Spring of 2013. Link
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Old Feb 6, 2013, 02:27 PM   #67
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Originally Posted by slughead View Post
Recently several countries introduced a requirement that even internal fans need to have grills on them to prevent you from hurting your wittle fingers.

Question: When in the vicinity of the Mac Pro, do you often fear for your safety and the safety of those around you in light of the lack of fan guards?

Question2: Are you satisfied European governments are protecting customers from this product by making it illegal to sell it there? Should they introduce those requirements here in the US?

Question3: Is it not clearly Apple's fault they are not in compliance and should they not be ashamed to have endangered customers by not protecting the mentally-challenged against obvious potential finger injury?

For the Lulz.
Any bureaucracy will have the tendency to get bigger by coming up with more regulations (bureaucratic entropy?). Simultaneously you have societies going towards Idiocracy which necessitates a nanny state trying to protect the stupid masses from hurting themselves. Increasing regulations lead to the need for more bureaucratic enforcers and regulators who come up with more inane regulations. Get used to it ...
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Old Feb 6, 2013, 02:33 PM   #68
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Old Feb 6, 2013, 02:57 PM   #69
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Is this the same Europe that gave the world 180 mph cars like the Ferrari and built a road where one can actually drive that fast legally?

Or the Europe that gave the world the Smart Car?

What are the fan restrictions on the AirBus 300?

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Old Feb 6, 2013, 03:36 PM   #70
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Is this the same Europe that gave the world 180 mph cars like the Ferrari and built a road where one can actually drive that fast legally?

Or the Europe that gave the world the Smart Car?

What are the fan restrictions on the AirBus 300?

Dale
Hey!! We love our Smart Cars! (His and Hers in this household...) And the dealer even put the safety grill on the hamster wheels for us, as part of the warranty coverage.....
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Old Feb 7, 2013, 05:57 AM   #71
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Any bureaucracy will have the tendency to get bigger by coming up with more regulations (bureaucratic entropy?). Simultaneously you have societies going towards Idiocracy which necessitates a nanny state trying to protect the stupid masses from hurting themselves. Increasing regulations lead to the need for more bureaucratic enforcers and regulators who come up with more inane regulations. Get used to it ...
Exactly. As the government monopolizes and destroys education, it must make sure to take care of all the newly created dunderheads and keep them from harm. What good is a warning label if you're unable to read?

They should just make the stupid things illegal for everyone.
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Old Feb 8, 2013, 09:16 AM   #72
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Exactly. As the government monopolizes and destroys education, it must make sure to take care of all the newly created dunderheads and keep them from harm. What good is a warning label if you're unable to read?

They should just make the stupid things illegal for everyone.
Keeping in mind of course that most politicians have been given the reins of power by the dunderheads, by running on a platform of making the world safer for the d/hs. The politicians are not to blame here, it is the d/hs who are frightened to deal with the world on their own. We puts 'em in power, and we votes 'em out. Ultimately - the buck stops with the d/hs.... us.
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Old Feb 9, 2013, 11:25 AM   #73
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2) I think European governments spend way too much on non-essential regulation; no there is reason why we are recovering from the recent depression whereas half of Europe is going bankrupt.
How is California doing today after it managed to almost bankrupt itself because companies like Enron could milk them dry?

The USA has been bankrupt for decades now and is definitely not recovering. China is the biggest shareholder of the USA. If they would not help the USA than China itself would also go bankrupt.
The Dollar is still behind the Euro and for a reason. The EU itself has regulations regarding company debts and most companies are following them. These are far more strict than the USA which is far better in the long run. EU has always regulated it's national debts, the USA started that after 2008. They may have done something similar in the 1930s after the Great Depression. That's when the Wallstreet Crash happened and the entire country went bankrupt. A situation worse than what's Greece in atm (although not that much worse). For countries like these we also have something called the EFSM which will help them out. What does the USA have for states that might go bankrupt?

In other words: every government does silly things but this isn't the reason why we are in such trouble worldwide. There also isn't much of a recovery from that anywhere in the world, not even in the USA. What we see now are things that are short term. Recovery is something that is long term. Obama has to take a lot of other budget cuts just like nearly any other country in the world (if you followed the elections you'd have known this).

Quote:
3) Perhaps we should suggest Apple introduce a screening for possible stupid buyers.
That would leave out most people here on macrumors since they seem to be easily fooled by companies such as Apple into thinking it is some kind of regulation that is the reason why they are stopping the Mac Pro. It isn't. Apple is the one who is stopping it and cleverly uses some kind of regulation in some part of the world as an excuse. Nearly everybody in this thread falls for it. Steve wasn't the one with the reality distortion field...his company is.

As far as regulations go: why on earth would an American citizen care about this EU regulations? They are only stopping the sale in the EU, not in the USA. The other thing is that most people here have no clue about how regulations in the EU actually work. Regulations in the EU are merely guidelines that EU member states have to implement partially (!!!!!!!!!) in their own regulations (there are specific rules about this). They don't have to implement every part and in some cases they can't because their own law forbids it (Germany has had quite a few lawsuits with the conclusion that implementing the EU regulation is unlawful). There are even cases where the member states own implementation goes beyond the EU regulation (such as warranty in .nl).

So there you have it: this regulation is nothing but a handy excuse Apple used to cut back on the Mac Pro.

Quote:
Originally Posted by slughead View Post
Exactly. As the government monopolizes and destroys education, it must make sure to take care of all the newly created dunderheads and keep them from harm. What good is a warning label if you're unable to read?
Warning labels only make sense if they warn for something that isn't obvious, something that somebody couldn't have thought up beforehand. Only stupid people need warning labels to warn them from obvious things.
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