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Old Feb 28, 2013, 12:37 PM   #301
BaldiMac
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Originally Posted by GermanyChris View Post
Actually I'd call it less stable.
I'd call that statement crazy. Both companies basically had all their revenue tied to one product line at any time.

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Those two based their existence on the business market, Apple generates a vast majority of their income in the consumer market. The consumer market changes quickly based on what is cool right now this of course is subject to change at any moment
Apple is doing pretty well in enterprise right now.
http://venturebeat.com/2013/02/26/ap...nes-and-ipads/

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What Apple has not done is to spread their revenue flow out.
Sure they have to a far, far greater extent than the two companies we are comparing them to.

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If someone comes out with the next "cool" phone or tablet where does that leave Apple, it leaves them with a 70% reduction in revenue.
Which would still be how many time bigger than either RIM or Palm at their peak?

But back to your point here. Why would Apple lose all of their iPhone sales simply because another "cool" phone comes out? In case you haven't heard, Apple users are pretty loyal.

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iTunes is great but not being monetized all that well, Mac sales while better than the industry can't keep Apple afloat alone. There is no "must have" in the Apple lSW or HW line up other than tabs and phones. This is there problem, then need a must have in every sector they compete in not just one.
All things are relative, I guess. Mac sales kept Apple afloat when the were selling 10-15% of what they are now.
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Old Feb 28, 2013, 12:52 PM   #302
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Martin Scorcese directed for Apple? You kidding me? Now there's a director with name recognition!

Seriously though, I'm just not that up-to-date on Hollywood these days. And I'm probably not in Samsung's target demographic for that matter.
Tim Burton has been making films for the past 25 years or so. Batman? Nightmare Before Christmas? Edward Scissorhands?
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Old Feb 28, 2013, 01:21 PM   #303
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Originally Posted by BaldiMac View Post
Neither of those thing is an indication of market interest.



Maybe you are arguing something different than what you said.

Yes, Apple's rate of growth is slowing. But sales are still increasing. Which pretty clearly indicates that market interest is still increasing. "Increasing slower" does not equal "decreasing".

No, I don't think it is because of product quality, but because of the law of large numbers. It simply gets progressively harder to double your sales every year.
Im arguing the same thing I'm saying. If you want to believe everything is gravy and Apple can continue with product launches like they have been and continue to prosper indefinitely, so be it.

----------

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Apple is doing pretty well in enterprise right now.
http://venturebeat.com/2013/02/26/ap...nes-and-ipads/
Yeah, so was RIM...
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Old Feb 28, 2013, 01:34 PM   #304
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Im arguing the same thing I'm saying. If you want to believe everything is gravy and Apple can continue with product launches like they have been and continue to prosper indefinitely, so be it.
How do you explain the fact that more people are buying Apple products if less people are interested in them?

But there's no reason to put words in my mouth. It's silly to think that Apple can continue to do the same thing and prosper indefinitely. It's also silly to think that they will.

They idea that Apple has had spectacular innovations every year in the past is just a myth created to set the bar so high that they can never reach it.

(And with the iPhone specifically, people compare this year's model to last year's model, and just call the differences minor. However, it's pretty clear to me, that Apple's strategy is based on a two year upgrade plan for iPhones. The iPhone 5 is a spectacular upgrade over the iPhone 4.)

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Yeah, so was RIM...
Maybe you missed the rest of the conversation.
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Old Feb 28, 2013, 01:38 PM   #305
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Bring back the Mac/PC guys, but replace the PC guy with an "Android" guy.

Loved those commercials...
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Old Feb 28, 2013, 02:00 PM   #306
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Originally Posted by BaldiMac View Post
I think the real argument against built in styluses (as opposed to the oversimplified, hack of the argument that you responded to ) is that if you include a stylus with the device, lazy developers (including first-party) will build their UI with a stylus as a fall back rather than making tough design choices to better support finger-based input.

While I do appreciate a stylus for sketching and OCR type input, I would not want any apps to literally or practically require one.
While I can't say it won't happen, I think it'd be the rare exception rather than the rule for two reasons.

1. Touch interfaces are now the expected norm these days. It's what everyone has become used to, and hell...we've already got an entire generation of people growing up around it. Even if styluses were to become a secondary norm among tablets and phones, I doubt they'd replace touch completely.

and...

2. Designing a stylus based interface isn't necessarily any harder or easier than making one based around touch. Just different. I don't see it becoming a path of least resistance for lazy developers to take. Rather, I think we'll see more stylus-centric UIs with smaller icons for apps that heavily lean on stylus usage (Photoshop et al.), and touch for everything that doesn't.

While you'll have tons of these lazy developers releasing poorly thought out shovelware apps, it's usually the good developers that drive the platform. They'll design their apps around the interface that best works with their idea. We'll likely see a healthy mix of the two.
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Old Feb 28, 2013, 02:11 PM   #307
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Originally Posted by BaldiMac View Post
How do you explain the fact that more people are buying Apple products if less people are interested in them?

But there's no reason to put words in my mouth. It's silly to think that Apple can continue to do the same thing and prosper indefinitely. It's also silly to think that they will.

They idea that Apple has had spectacular innovations every year in the past is just a myth created to set the bar so high that they can never reach it.

(And with the iPhone specifically, people compare this year's model to last year's model, and just call the differences minor. However, it's pretty clear to me, that Apple's strategy is based on a two year upgrade plan for iPhones. The iPhone 5 is a spectacular upgrade over the iPhone 4.)

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Maybe you missed the rest of the conversation.
I explained how already. I can't control whether or not you choose not to read or ignore it. In the interest of not thread crapping further, I won't repeat myself, but you are more than welcome to re-read previous posts.

Like I said, if you are free to believe what you want to believe. I've explained why I disagree with you but I'm not going to waste my time trying to convince you. I suggest you not waste your time trying to convince me. I've read your arguments and disagree with your assessment.
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Old Feb 28, 2013, 03:06 PM   #308
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Originally Posted by Renzatic View Post
While I can't say it won't happen, I think it'd be the rare exception rather than the rule for two reasons.

1. Touch interfaces are now the expected norm these days. It's what everyone has become used to, and hell...we've already got an entire generation of people growing up around it. Even if styluses were to become a secondary norm among tablets and phones, I doubt they'd replace touch completely.

and...

2. Designing a stylus based interface isn't necessarily any harder or easier than making one based around touch. Just different. I don't see it becoming a path of least resistance for lazy developers to take.
I don't think you understood what I said. I don't think it's a question of touch interfaces going away. I think it will lead to problems such as developer shrinking their touch targets in certain applications because they assume you have a stylus available. I don't want "Photoshop et al." to shrink the UI with the assumption that a stylus is available.

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Rather, I think we'll see more stylus-centric UIs with smaller icons for apps that heavily lean on stylus usage (Photoshop et al.), and touch for everything that doesn't.
That's exactly what I was arguing would happen. I just think it's a bad thing!
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Old Feb 28, 2013, 03:10 PM   #309
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Originally Posted by BaldiMac View Post
I don't think you understood what I said. I don't think it's a question of touch interfaces going away. I think it will lead to problems such as developer shrinking their touch targets in certain applications because they assume you have a stylus available. I don't want "Photoshop et al." to shrink the UI with the assumption that a stylus is available.



That's exactly what I was arguing would happen. I just think it's a bad thing!
I think this is a bad example. Because something like Photoshop would absolutely benefit from having a more precise input device than a finger. And there's nothing stopping Adobe from doing a "lite" version which is for fat fingers
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Old Feb 28, 2013, 04:41 PM   #310
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Originally Posted by 2IS View Post
Apple has enough cash reserves to keep it afloat for quite some time and while the stocks are going down, their revenue stream still remains quite strong, but Apple would be wise to see these as a warning sign that the market is at least starting to lose interest in their products. If they wait too long, it could easily be a case of too little, too late. Just look at what happened to Palm, and more recently, RIM.

I can tell you as an owner of multiple Apple devices, I've started to lose interest even though I've continued buying their products. When I got my iPhone 4, choosing a different phone wasn't even a consideration by any stretch of the imagination. It was by far and away the most exciting/best phone on the market IMO.

When I got my iPhone 5, I felt like I got the best built phone, but that's about the only area that I felt the iPhone 5 was superior to it's competition. By the time it rolled around, I felt like I got it merely because of preference and the fact that I'm already part of the Apple/iTunes ecosystem, not because I felt it was that much more superior to other devices on the market.

Apple will only get so much mileage out of me based on the above factors. I'm liking what Microsoft is doing personally. If Apple continues its path of mediocre updates to both it's hardware and software lines, I will eventually bite the bullet and transition elsewhere. And while I may just be a single person, I assure you there are plenty of other like minded individuals.
Apple will from time to time make a stellar product. After that they continue to refine the product.

The latest Macbook Air I own is a good example of refinement.

I buy Apple for several factors;

1/ great design/look
2/ great feel
3/ great hardware (in the context of integration with it's software to perform reliably)
4/ great software (in terms of reliability, connectivity and it just works)
5/ great new innovative product (this occurs from time to time)
6/ great customer service.

Clearly 5/ does not apply to each new release. And doesn't for most companies.

Unlike you I haven't considered switching back to MS. I did buy office two weeks ago and bugger me if in editing the first document ( a training manual) the damn thing hung itself and the programme had to be shut down and restarted. I so don't miss that about MS. Sure it has far more functions in word than pages but pages just works. And works well.

If I run down the list 1-6 for MS the result isn't pretty. It's much better for Samsung. They are really closing the gap. Staying cheaper while building market as the Japanese did with cars seems a good strategy. The Japanese initially copied then led. Will Samsung do the same. The worlds also changing with employees being more mobile and companies being more mobile. Samsung has US bases.

It was clear when Kodak took their eye of the ball and there was a clear turning point. I'm not seeing that with Apple yet. They seem to be firmly on track. MS on the other hand are completely oblivious to what's happening. Pity really because they used to be so good at copying and running smoke and mirror shows till they got a product to market. I'd like to see them lift their game but they seem to be leaving that to google.
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Old Feb 28, 2013, 04:57 PM   #311
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I think this is a bad example. Because something like Photoshop would absolutely benefit from having a more precise input device than a finger. And there's nothing stopping Adobe from doing a "lite" version which is for fat fingers
I understand what you are saying, but you are missing my point. The benefit from a "more precise input device" is in the actual drawing area. The way current paint programs work is great. Use your finger if you want, or use a stylus for more precise control.

The problem, in my opinion, is if the controls are shrunk to make room for more features with the assumption that you always have a stylus available. More specifically, I don't think the UI should ever assume the presence of a stylus in any app. But I think it's great if it can take advantage of the stylus for more precise control in writing or drawing. Especially, the ability to ignore palm input while you are using the stylus.
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Old Feb 28, 2013, 11:14 PM   #312
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I'd suggest you not try to interpret posts without some help next time, because youre reply has no corellation to my post you quoted.
The point I was trying to get across was that in advertising (as in life) you can get your point across much better in an understated precise manner rather than in a very obvious heavy handed manner. Seems your abstract thinking is what needs a little help. BTW, it's your not youre and it's correlation not corellation.

Have a nice day.
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Old Mar 1, 2013, 01:37 AM   #313
2IS
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The point I was trying to get across was that in advertising (as in life) you can get your point across much better in an understated precise manner rather than in a very obvious heavy handed manner. Seems your abstract thinking is what needs a little help. BTW, it's your not youre and it's correlation not corellation.

Have a nice day.
Your correcting my spelling errors doesn't change the fact that the point you're trying to get across still has no "correlation" to the post you quoted. I can correct my problem with spell check, how will you correct yours?
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Old Mar 1, 2013, 05:53 AM   #314
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Originally Posted by jchase2057 View Post
Tim Burton has been making films for the past 25 years or so. Batman? Nightmare Before Christmas? Edward Scissorhands?
I stand corrected.

Not really my genre, however. Probably explains it.
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Old Mar 1, 2013, 11:02 AM   #315
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Originally Posted by 2IS View Post
Your correcting my spelling errors doesn't change the fact that the point you're trying to get across still has no "correlation" to the post you quoted. I can correct my problem with spell check, how will you correct yours?
By ending this conversation. Have a nice day.
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Old Mar 1, 2013, 11:42 AM   #316
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By ending this conversation. Have a nice day.
Sounds like ignoring the problem to me, but you enjoy the rest of your day as well.
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Old Mar 1, 2013, 04:36 PM   #317
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That's exactly what I was arguing would happen. I just think it's a bad thing!
Meeehhhh...it depends. I'm more in line with what Samcraig said. For example, I've been playing around with this app called Artstudio. It's about the closest thing I've seen to a touch friendly Photoshop app on the iPad. Even better than actual Photoshop Touch. Everything is laid out all nice and neat, the big buttons are easy to hit with your fingers, and it's just...yeah...pretty nice. It's almost the perfect example of how a touch based app doesn't necessarily have to be dumbed down.

...almost.

See, right now it offers up, maybe, about 20% of Photoshop's feature set. Right now, things are nice. But what if the developers start adding features to try and bring it up to parity with PS? That currently nice touch based UI is gonna start getting crowded. Eventually, they're gonna have to start hiding features offscreen, requiring multiple clicks to get to what you want. You'll end up with the touch equivalent of nested menus within nested menus.

I hate that. Think it's the worst thing in the world.

The best compromise would be to make the icons a little smaller. Something easy to hit with a stylus, which you'll be using more likely than not anyway, than it would be with your finger.

I agree that I don't want everything to become centered around the stylus. Touch works great for some things. But it doesn't work for everything. Where it doesn't, I have no problem with developers targeting their UI around a different input method. As long as it makes sense, I'm good with it.
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Old Mar 2, 2013, 02:52 PM   #318
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Meeehhhh...it depends. I'm more in line with what Samcraig said. For example, I've been playing around with this app called Artstudio. It's about the closest thing I've seen to a touch friendly Photoshop app on the iPad. Even better than actual Photoshop Touch. Everything is laid out all nice and neat, the big buttons are easy to hit with your fingers, and it's just...yeah...pretty nice. It's almost the perfect example of how a touch based app doesn't necessarily have to be dumbed down.

...almost.

See, right now it offers up, maybe, about 20% of Photoshop's feature set. Right now, things are nice. But what if the developers start adding features to try and bring it up to parity with PS? That currently nice touch based UI is gonna start getting crowded. Eventually, they're gonna have to start hiding features offscreen, requiring multiple clicks to get to what you want. You'll end up with the touch equivalent of nested menus within nested menus.

I hate that. Think it's the worst thing in the world.

The best compromise would be to make the icons a little smaller. Something easy to hit with a stylus, which you'll be using more likely than not anyway, than it would be with your finger.

I agree that I don't want everything to become centered around the stylus. Touch works great for some things. But it doesn't work for everything. Where it doesn't, I have no problem with developers targeting their UI around a different input method. As long as it makes sense, I'm good with it.
Fair enough, but I think that there is still innovation to be found before developers have to resort to choosing between "nested menus" and stylus-only targets. All of the same problems that you brought up will exist in apps that you don't want to use a stylus for as well.
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Old Mar 13, 2013, 10:37 AM   #319
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I will take the product based ads over poor attempts at comedy using celebrities and mocking the user base in which you want to capture.
Me, too. However...

The recent Samsung advertisements do not intend to mock the user base they are trying to capture, they are instead attempting to legitimize themselves as a valid iPhone competitor.

In the past, people pulling out their non-iPhone might feel a tinge of being inadequate, or not as cool. The new Samsung ads are trying to make these cheapskates feel better about their phone, and legitimize their choice, turning the whole thing on its head and making these folks feel proud of their non-iPhone instead.

I wish it weren't so, but this strategy appears to be working!

_________

And by the way, the Apple genius ads were derided as making Apple users look dumb. I'm sure a bunch of twentysomething douche bags drawing x's on their unicorns and debating about how unicorns look "in real life" appear very intelligent. /s
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