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Old Dec 31, 2013, 12:58 PM   #176
alent1234
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Originally Posted by darkplanets View Post
You so sure about that? Last I checked, congress was more or less in the dark when it came to a lot of the aspects revealed by the Snowden leaks. Furthermore, what's to say they can't simply misreport what's actually going on? They only give information on a voluntary basis, and being in "contempt of congress" is simply verbiage. The FISA court rubber-stamped them to collect almost any data, even of US citizens, in "good faith." What's to say that data doesn't contain details of those in congress -- incidents that would threaten their reelection? It creates a very vulnerable relationship where the NSA could more or less do as they please.

Again, these aren't per se accusations of current behavior, since we really have no idea, but they're suggestive of future misuses that are bound to happen in time.

The only one who actually knows what the NSA is up to is themselves.
those committees authorize the NSA budget and congress people have always hung the workers out to dry with full knowledge of what they had done if the press is against them at the moment

if the head of the NSA is trying to blackmail you on knowledge you only gave to a very few trusted people, what does that tell you? what is going to happen next time the next head of the NSA has to be approved by the senate?

the government used to do a lot worse in the 70s to people they didn't like
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Old Dec 31, 2013, 01:31 PM   #177
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It doesn't hurt anything to learn, and God willing it won't come to that.

Best to be prepared is my motto, especially since I'm about to become a father for the first time.
Use a false name/address if you do.

It's a girl.
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Old Dec 31, 2013, 01:39 PM   #178
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Originally Posted by Rogifan View Post
Of course tinfoil hat crowd will claim Apple was allowing it to be installed at Foxconn factories. Too many people in Alex Jones territory these days which is scary.
So now the NSA admits it can listen to you via your phone's camera and microphone, but you're still going to wave the "conspiracy theory" flag?
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Old Dec 31, 2013, 02:07 PM   #179
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Originally Posted by mpantone View Post
The current POTUS took office on January 20, 2009.

This NSA program was likely instigated by the previous administration.
Stop trying to blame it on Bush, think deeper. This goes back to the telecommunications act of 1996 where they leave back doors on all telephone switches and routers. And I'm not blaming it on Clinton, we are in Plato's cave where we only see the shadows on the wall.
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Old Dec 31, 2013, 02:37 PM   #180
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Stop trying to blame it on Bush, think deeper. This goes back to the telecommunications act of 1996 where they leave back doors on all telephone switches and routers. And I'm not blaming it on Clinton, we are in Plato's cave where we only see the shadows on the wall.
That's a good point. But it should also be made that, again, people want a person to point the finger of blame at. Currently, that will be Obama. But it should be expressed that this has existed well before he took office. Could be that it was before Bush took office. Either way, the POTUS is not to officially 'blame' for this, though he will be the scapegoat.

BL.
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Old Dec 31, 2013, 02:39 PM   #181
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Originally Posted by janstett View Post
Stop trying to blame it on Bush, think deeper. This goes back to the telecommunications act of 1996 where they leave back doors on all telephone switches and routers. And I'm not blaming it on Clinton, we are in Plato's cave where we only see the shadows on the wall.
See the movie trackdown about Kevin mcnick (pretty sure I misspelled it). It's based on a true story and surveillance like that existed forever. It's just now with good technology the amount they collect is crazy.
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Old Dec 31, 2013, 02:46 PM   #182
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Originally Posted by aloshka View Post
See the movie trackdown about Kevin mcnick (pretty sure I misspelled it). It's based on a true story and surveillance like that existed forever. It's just now with good technology the amount they collect is crazy.
Now, I'm going to play devil's advocate here. And in no way am I defending the NSA for what they have done.

But it is very easy for any tech-savvy person to collect some of the data they have. Prime example, and this could be done with any desktop or server OS. Linux, OS X, Windows, you name it:
  1. Grab the source code or pre-compiled binary to any webserver software: IIS, Apache, Cherokee, you name it.
  2. Install it (or compile it).
  3. Start it. (at this point, you've pretty much created your own website)
  4. Visit it.
  5. Look at the logs generated. There's your metadata: IP address, time, what page you retrieved, referring URL, number of bytes transferred, browser used.

Now.. if you are the owner of that website/webserver, then you should have that data, and rightfully so. Since the NSA isn't a part involved, they shouldn't be privy to it; and therein lies the problem.

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Old Dec 31, 2013, 03:19 PM   #183
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It took you a while GMX.com will not give access to nobody.
They're linked to 1&1 Internet which I used for a while. Without doubt one of the worst hosting/email experiences I've had. Terrible software, terrible customer service, terrible website templates, terrible email service. Would never go back there again.
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Old Dec 31, 2013, 03:48 PM   #184
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Where did you move your data? If I may ask.
I use www.jottacloud.com for online backup as its servers are based in Norway.

Important documents are stored offline on a USB flash drive.

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Originally Posted by mjoshi123 View Post
This is funny - you are from UK, which is mother of all police state with constant surveillance, your govt knows details about how many dumps you take in morning, even Royals were hacked and you are worried about US
I don't trust the UK government anymore than I trust the US. They have used supposed anti-terrorist laws to roll back freedoms and privacy controls.

The Royals were not hacked by the government, they were hacked by the British newspapers. Several people are currently on trial in the UK regarding this matter so I can't comment further on that.

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Originally Posted by Renzatic View Post
If we were to cut military expenditures alone in half, we could have it paid off in roughly 30 years. Or if we were to use the current amount of taxes collected per year and focused that solely on paying the debt, it could be done in about 3.
Neither of which is likely or practical. The politicians are at deadlock. Nobody seems to have the answer. When the s*** finally does hit the fan and they have to face up to this problem it will cause the biggest financial crisis and worldwide depression in history.
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Old Dec 31, 2013, 03:57 PM   #185
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Originally Posted by Shaun, UK View Post
I don't trust the UK government anymore than I trust the US. They have used supposed anti-terrorist laws to roll back freedoms and privacy controls.

Yes, they said they attacked the US because they hate our freedoms. In response, we got the Patriot Act, NDAA, the TSA, government spying and more of a police state. What did you guys get?
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Old Dec 31, 2013, 04:15 PM   #186
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Originally Posted by alent1234 View Post
in the 80's the NSA was sucking up everyone's phone calls out of the air via the microwave transmissions. in the 90's they were spying on computer users by monitoring the energy from their CRT monitors. in the army the rule was that all monitors that processed classified info had to face away from windows.

the tin foil hat crowd that think the NSA cares about their porn habit or their useless lives are idiots
It isn't about WHAT they are collecting, it's that they are collecting anything at all. It's illegal, and it's total BS. Our government is corrupt as hell and needs to cease to exist in the way it does. Period.
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Old Dec 31, 2013, 05:14 PM   #187
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Originally Posted by rdowns View Post
Yes, they said they attacked the US because they hate our freedoms. In response, we got the Patriot Act, NDAA, the TSA, government spying and more of a police state. What did you guys get?
We've ended up with Big Brother Britain: CCTV everywhere, Expanded GCHQ (the UK equivalent of the NSA) and still nobody knows what they actually do, total compliance with US extradition requests regardless of the evidence, expanded police and security service powers to watch every aspect of our lives.

If it was Al-Qaeda's intention to destroy our long cherished freedoms and civil liberties I would say they have succeeded.
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Old Dec 31, 2013, 08:35 PM   #188
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Originally Posted by synergy View Post
So you don't think they could remove the tape without you noticing it? Leave that alone, do you think they could open a box with tape and then reseal a product in a new box with new tape?
It is true software design is imperfect. It is also possible people working for Apple and other companies are on two payrolls as well. Where there is a will there is a way.
You've never used tape and cardboard before, have you? And you didn't even read everything I wrote. Do that first, then attempt to mock me. Maybe you'll succeed one day.

----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by MyopicPaideia View Post
Just a couple more points while I'm at it.

Assets mean real physical assets, like your house, car, the food in your fridge, etc. Those have real, inherent value.

Secondly, paper money is NOT widely used today, that's the whole point. In first world countries it is almost completely displaced by non-cash and digital forms. On average, only 1-3% of the money supply in the world is in the form of paper notes.
So, you didn't understand a word of my post, eh? Yes, I know what "asset" means, and if I wasn't an accountant, I could have looked the damn word up on 2000000 different websites. But maybe I said something else, genius.

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Quote:
Originally Posted by tdream View Post
Because the NSA would be foiled by tape? Listen to yourself.
And another non-reader. I spoke of shrinkwrap, in response to a post about it. Pay attention.
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Old Jan 1, 2014, 03:06 AM   #189
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So, you didn't understand a word of my post, eh? Yes, I know what "asset" means, and if I wasn't an accountant, I could have looked the damn word up on 2000000 different websites. But maybe I said something else, genius.
You seem to be very angry over this. Does it's truth devalue your chosen vocation for you or something? Remember your talking to a fellow accountant.

You asked what the video or the maker of the video thinks has actual value if money doesn't as is suggested, and then scoffed off the mention of assets as an abstract that just assumes the viewer knows what is implied. I just gave you some examples of the kinds of assets/commodities that would qualify, since it appeared that was the problem you had.

Your initial argument, if I have interpreted it right, was that the maker of the video had some sort of ulterior personal motive for presenting the explanation of the monetary system (your elephant in the room) because he may have been invested in a physical commodity that may have fallen in value, like scarce commodities such as oil or precious metals. Really bad examples, because these items have skyrocketed in value due to the modern monetary system because of the built in inflation into it.

Also, just a quick comment on the whole packaging thing you are also so adamant about. Are you referring to the outer delivery packaging, or the actual product box?

Every Apple device I have ever purchased has had a plastic wrapping around it, but of course the brown box delivery packaging is sealed with tape. The only Apple products I have ever received that didn't have the plastic wrap have been accessories, like thunderbolt or display port adapters.

Not at all out of the realm of possibility that the delivery packaging could be fully replaced and you wouldn't know the difference, same with the actual product box. However, I do agree with you that the simplest answer is usually the closest to the truth.
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Last edited by MyopicPaideia; Jan 1, 2014 at 03:08 AM. Reason: Typos (iPhone ;))
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Old Jan 1, 2014, 10:40 PM   #190
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Was.......!

Your 6 years too late.... Thanks for telling us about what they got.... :P.

I wish people moved as fast as technology did.
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Old Jan 1, 2014, 11:03 PM   #191
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Old Jan 2, 2014, 04:47 AM   #192
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Every time i see those "top secret" ppt slides i wonder
why the technologies are obfuscated under bizarre names oposed to goals that are very explicit lol...are those secret agents receiving formation dumb.?
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Old Jan 2, 2014, 08:09 AM   #193
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Originally Posted by MyopicPaideia View Post
You seem to be very angry over this. Does it's truth devalue your chosen vocation for you or something? Remember your talking to a fellow accountant.

You asked what the video or the maker of the video thinks has actual value if money doesn't as is suggested, and then scoffed off the mention of assets as an abstract that just assumes the viewer knows what is implied. I just gave you some examples of the kinds of assets/commodities that would qualify, since it appeared that was the problem you had.

Your initial argument, if I have interpreted it right, was that the maker of the video had some sort of ulterior personal motive for presenting the explanation of the monetary system (your elephant in the room) because he may have been invested in a physical commodity that may have fallen in value, like scarce commodities such as oil or precious metals. Really bad examples, because these items have skyrocketed in value due to the modern monetary system because of the built in inflation into it.

Also, just a quick comment on the whole packaging thing you are also so adamant about. Are you referring to the outer delivery packaging, or the actual product box?

Every Apple device I have ever purchased has had a plastic wrapping around it, but of course the brown box delivery packaging is sealed with tape. The only Apple products I have ever received that didn't have the plastic wrap have been accessories, like thunderbolt or display port adapters.

Not at all out of the realm of possibility that the delivery packaging could be fully replaced and you wouldn't know the difference, same with the actual product box. However, I do agree with you that the simplest answer is usually the closest to the truth.
Oh, holy ****. Look, if you don't like my style, maybe you should ignore it.

Yes, I was making light of the fact that this video blogger or whatever isn't about truth or wonderfulness, he/she has their own agenda which I also don't trust. I made no commentary about the paper money system, just their comments. Unless you wrote it, I fail to see where YOUR ire originates when I make fun of them. (btw, I assume as an accountant you understand that people want their assets higher, higher, higher...not just happy because there's been an increase lately, or are you just tweaking me?)

And I pointed out about packaging to someone who clearly hadn't thought it through. If you go back and actually read what I posted, it's about the same as what you just said. So...thanks for agreeing?
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Old Jan 3, 2014, 11:13 AM   #194
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Oh, holy ****. Look, if you don't like my style, maybe you should ignore it.

Yes, I was making light of the fact that this video blogger or whatever isn't about truth or wonderfulness, he/she has their own agenda which I also don't trust. I made no commentary about the paper money system, just their comments. Unless you wrote it, I fail to see where YOUR ire originates when I make fun of them. (btw, I assume as an accountant you understand that people want their assets higher, higher, higher...not just happy because there's been an increase lately, or are you just tweaking me?)

And I pointed out about packaging to someone who clearly hadn't thought it through. If you go back and actually read what I posted, it's about the same as what you just said. So...thanks for agreeing?
Alright, your style is angry, I'll choose to ignore it

Regardless of any agenda you trust or don't trust on the part of the creator of the video, that is a very correct and accurate portrayal of how the monetary system works. 100% of the money in the global system was/is created by taking a loan from a bank (whether that be a federal treasury bank or the local credit union down the street), who created the money out of thin air by making a credit entry to the loanee's transaction account (whether that be a national or regional government, a corporate body, or another private person or legal entity) and a debit entry to a loan receivable account for the bank. The deliverable is printed piece of paper in the form of a legally binding note of some kind (A bond in the case of the gov't or a promissory note in private transactions). Add the attached interest rate to that loan, and it is easy to understand how there is always more debt than actual money in the system.

It is actually thanks to the invention of the double entry accounting system of debits and credits (dating back to at least the 13th century) that this is even possible. Good to know the history and origin of your chosen vocation, I think.

The supply of paper money in the system, the interest rate, as well as the reserve requirements banks have to adhere to are arbitrary and artificial, tools used to regulate the money market and keep it under control.

Secondly, scarce and non-renewable commodities such as crude oil and precious metals and gems have consistently gone up in value over time if you take a long term view. As you say, we're not talking short term gains and losses here, are we?

http://inflationdata.com/Inflation/I...ices_Chart.asp
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Old Jan 3, 2014, 06:43 PM   #195
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I've never received an Apple product shrinkwrapped, only taped. Tape is impossible to remove from cardboard without me seeing that it has been done. So, they would have to have entire re-packaging systems, with new "Apple" boxes, to do this.

I've hardly ever received any product shrinkwrapped. That is mainly used on a pallet of items, so they don't fall off the pallet, not on an individual item which is all that is sent to my house. And products I have received with this also have other packaging that would have to be opened/replaced. Shrinkwrap is not in question.
And I gotta say, it's still easier to think that Apple's software and design is imperfect than they have been working with governments to check my messages.
So when you buy an iPhone, yours comes taped and not shrink wrapped? Maybe you are being targeted. Because even in retail stores, their packages come shrink wrapped.
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Old Jan 6, 2014, 02:54 AM   #196
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Dated? After less than 250 years? The Roman Empire lasted over 2000 years. Will the American Empire last that long?

What exactly is it about "The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures..." that you think is "dated"?

It was actually incredibly well-written to apply just as precisely today as it did then.
It was well written, for a republic and not an empire.
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Old Jan 6, 2014, 03:40 AM   #197
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Originally Posted by Patrick J View Post
No one has yet found the perfect political system.

Creating a solid system for billions of people will be hard.

A group of 150-250 people is a normal sized tribe which will tend to regulate itself. We have seen this in the few remaining tribal groups, and behavioural studies by Dunbar, Killworth and Bernard.

Above this number multiple issues like crime and abuse start to slowly get out of hand.

It's an interesting dilemma for our modern society. I take comfort in knowing we are in a better position that ever before to fix this mess because of the amazing communication the tool the internet is. This is why we must protect internet privacy.
Excellent insight regarding the size of a "normal sized tribe" being 100-150. Creating a solid system for billions (even millions) of people? Depends on what solid means! Trusting any system that is so completely beyond what we're wired to handle is delusional. I like your optimistic take that we are in a better position to fix things because of the internet.

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Old Jan 6, 2014, 07:20 AM   #198
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Okay, this is actually coherent. If you really want to define our current situation realistically, upward mobility has become burdened by a group of people who suddenly discovered they really like making a lot of money, and have managed to successfully game the system in order to continue making money unhindered. There's no deep seated attempts at mass population brainwashing, no attempts to crash the economy in order to subject us to abject poverty so we're easier to control, nothing of the sort. They just want more money, and are willing to go to great lengths to get it.
I used to feel that way... And rationalize that they wouldn't want to destroy a system they are profiting off of.

However, once you have so much money that it no longer matters, what is left to motivate such a person? Power and control.
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Old Jan 9, 2014, 07:33 AM   #199
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[QUOTE=JAT;18574914]You've never used tape and cardboard before, have you? And you didn't even read everything I wrote. Do that first, then attempt to mock me. Maybe you'll succeed one day.[COLOR="#808080"]

Maybe you should read what I wrote and what others wrote. New box, new tape . . . Or swap phones w/ box completely. Not hard to do. Was not mocking you either, though you seem to do a good job of doing that to yourself.
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