MBP too slow or can I make it work?

[mantic]

Here are my specs

Macbook Pro
2.33GHz core duo
2Gb of ram
256 Graphics card
Lion 10.7.5

I need to be able to edit 1080p at 60fps from my gopro 3. I've tried it on my laptop, but it's very choppy and dropping frames. An external drive might help a little but I'm concerned that my machine is just to slow to process the data. I would rater not go through with a costly update if possible. Can I make this work or am I too outdated?

[matteusclement]

can you upgrade the ram to 4GB?

is it the white macbook or the aluminum?

[simsaladimbamba]

What editing application do you use?
Can you revert back to Mac OS X 10.6 Snow Leopard, since it is less resource hungry than Mac OS X 10.7 Lion, as you only have 2 GB RAM?

And is the footage properly transcoded?

And yes, an external Firewire 400 or 800 HDD would help a lot.

Video Compression
Why It Matters & How To Make The Most Of It

which includes the following sections:

• GOPs, Macroblocks & Wavelets
• Acquisition Formats
• Editing & Post Formats
• Final Cut Pro
• Avid Media Composer
• Adobe Premiere Pro
• Which Codec Should I Edit With?
• Conclusion
• Camera Codec Summary
• Apple ProRes Variations
• Avid DNxHD Codecs

----------

Originally Posted by matteusclement

is it the white macbook or the aluminum?

It is a MacBook Pro, which never came in white. It is probably this MBP, and that one can support 4 GB of 200-pin DDR2 SO-DIMM RAM.

Upgrading RAM in MacBooks and MacBook Pros

Performance Tips For Mac OS X

[mantic]

So seems that my options boil Dow to two upgrades. An external drive (I only have fw400) and upgrading my ram. I wish I knew just how much of an improvement it would make.

[simsaladimbamba]

Originally Posted by mantic

So seems that my options boil Dow to two upgrades.

Have you read the video compression links I provided or can name the application you want to use?

An external drive (I only have fw400)

If it is the machine I linked to, it has Firewire 800.

I wish I knew just how much of an improvement it would make.

Probably not that much, since the CPU is the important part for transcoding the video to a proper format. More RAM will help the Mac react faster with multiple applications open and such.
And downgrading to Mac OS X 10.6 Snow Leopard will also help tremendously, as Mac OS X 10.7 Lion is more resource hungry than Mac OS X 10.6 Snow Leopard, but I may have already posted that.

"How to maximise your MacRumors troubleshooting experience" created by mad jew in 2006

[mantic]

Originally Posted by simsaladimbamba

Have you read the video compression links I provided or can name the application you want to use?

If it is the machine I linked to, it has Firewire 800.

Image

Probably not that much, since the CPU is the important part for transcoding the video to a proper format. More RAM will help the Mac react faster with multiple applications open and such.
And downgrading to Mac OS X 10.6 Snow Leopard will also help tremendously, as Mac OS X 10.7 Lion is more resource hungry than Mac OS X 10.6 Snow Leopard, but I may have already posted that.

"How to maximise your MacRumors troubleshooting experience" created by mad jew in 2006

I have read about file compression. I will likely fool around with that when I get a larger external HD. From what I've read, decompressing the files would help lighten the load in my machine when rendering the video. I just don't have the space on my current HD to do much of that right now.

You're right, I do have Fw800. I'm looking for a good 1tb portable HD right now. As far as reverting back to 10.6, I could if I could find my old disks. I've hated upgrading since day one. My laptop use to be much quicker.

[thekev]

Originally Posted by mantic

I need to be able to edit 1080p at 60fps from my gopro 3. ?

You know 60fps is extremely high for video right? Video and gaming are nothing alike. Is anything even filmed at 60fps?

[simsaladimbamba]

Originally Posted by mantic

I have read about file compression. I will likely fool around with that when I get a larger external HD. From what I've read, decompressing the files would help lighten the load in my machine when rendering the video. I just don't have the space on my current HD to do much of that right now.

You're right, I do have Fw800. I'm looking for a good 1tb portable HD right now. As far as reverting back to 10.6, I could if I could find my old disks. I've hated upgrading since day one. My laptop use to be much quicker.

It is not recommended to use the internal HDD with the OS on for storing video in an editing codec for use in editing application.
If you do not find your Mac OS X 10.6 Snow Leopard Upgrade/Retail DVD (the grey Restore DVDs will only have Mac OS X 10.4 Tiger on them), you could buy the Mac OS X 10.6 Snow Leopard Upgrade DVD from the Apple Online Store for 19 USD and do a clean install.

To create a Clean Install (formerly known as Erase & Install) of Mac OS X 10.6 Snow Leopard (the 29 USD Upgrade DVD is a fully working retail version of Mac OS X and does not need a prior installation of Mac OS X on the Mac), follow one of the following guides:

• Short version: Clean Install of OS X 10.6 Snow Leopard
• Long version: Mac OS X v10.6 Snow Leopard: How to Erase and Install

As for what HDD to get, you could either get a Firewire 800 2.5" enclosure (50 USD or so via Newegg or OWC or other vendors) and the 2.5" S-ATA HDD of your choice or buy a prepackaged HDD like the WD My Passport Studio, which comes in many variants. I have the 1 TB one for my mobile needs and it allows me to edit 1080p HD video, properly transcoded, on a 2007 iMac and 2009 MacBook Pro via Avid Media Composer.

[mantic]

Originally Posted by thekev

You know 60fps is extremely high for video right? Video and gaming are nothing alike. Is anything even filmed at 60fps?

It's great for slow motion, and really does help smooth out video sometimes. I want to be able to edit and play back video up to this standard without issues.

[thekev]

Originally Posted by mantic

It's great for slow motion, and really does help smooth out video sometimes. I want to be able to edit and play back video up to this standard without issues.

Well if your machine is not current performing up to par and you don't get lots of pageouts when you attempt this right after a reboot, you're never going to be happy with it. Depending on the application, it may be able to leverage the gpu for some of the heavy lifting. You may want to do a little research prior to purchasing a new machine, but I doubt you're going to get anywhere with that. Core2 duo didn't necessarily feel that slow on a desktop. The notebooks of that era can still be painful for any heavy lifting. We've also got 64 bit applications today, so usable ram is sometimes much higher. Going from 2GB to 4 today is nothing.

[mantic]

Originally Posted by simsaladimbamba

It is not recommended to use the internal HDD with the OS on for storing video in an editing codec for use in editing application.
If you do not find your Mac OS X 10.6 Snow Leopard Upgrade/Retail DVD (the grey Restore DVDs will only have Mac OS X 10.4 Tiger on them), you could buy the Mac OS X 10.6 Snow Leopard Upgrade DVD from the Apple Online Store for 19 USD and do a clean install.

To create a Clean Install (formerly known as Erase & Install) of Mac OS X 10.6 Snow Leopard (the 29 USD Upgrade DVD is a fully working retail version of Mac OS X and does not need a prior installation of Mac OS X on the Mac), follow one of the following guides:

• Short version: Clean Install of OS X 10.6 Snow Leopard
• Long version: Mac OS X v10.6 Snow Leopard: How to Erase and Install

As for what HDD to get, you could either get a Firewire 800 2.5" enclosure (50 USD or so via Newegg or OWC or other vendors) and the 2.5" S-ATA HDD of your choice or buy a prepackaged HDD like the WD My Passport Studio, which comes in many variants. I have the 1 TB one for my mobile needs and it allows me to edit 1080p HD video, properly transcoded, on a 2007 iMac and 2009 MacBook Pro via Avid Media Composer.

I think I'm just going to stick with my current OS and upgrade the ram. Also, i'm looking at the g-tech 1 and 2tb external drives. I pretty much have to purchase a new HDD anyway. I'm also considering running two 500gb drives in raid configuration, or a 1tb for storage and a 500gb to edit from.

[OrganMusic]

I've edited 720p 30fps without too much pain a PowerBook G4 which is a good bit slower than your rig. Are you expecting perfect playback or just to be able to edit and export to play on something Else? 60fps 1080p playback is probably asking a lot.

[mantic]

Originally Posted by OrganMusic

I've edited 720p 30fps without too much pain a PowerBook G4 which is a good bit slower than your rig. Are you expecting perfect playback or just to be able to edit and export to play on something Else? 60fps 1080p playback is probably asking a lot.

Well, I want perfect playback, but I know that's asking too much on this machine--especially mp4 format. I have been reading up on converting files and such, and have had decent success converting to less compressed formats and playing/editing them on my laptop. The issue is that I have no where to store those huge files. My internal HHD is only 120gb and only has lik 3-4 gigs left unused, which i'm sure is causing issues in and of its self.

Given that I just went on vacation and shot all my video in 720 @60fps and am not entirely happy with the results, I'd like to try shooting in 1080 @ 60fps and see if that gives me what i'm looking for. However, I know that my computer will not handle those files, so i'm just kinda stuck shooting videos in 720 because those are the ones that I can watch and edit with a little foot work.

[treatment]

Nobody mentioned this yet, so I'll pipe in:

When SATA harddrives get close to about 80% full capacity they slow right down to a crawl.
Video performance RELIES on that data stream being consistent, so guaranteed you are going to drop frames like crazy.

Definitely get a new harddrive, and definitely consider transcoding your GoPro files before you even begin to edit.
I have no idea about why or how the operating system comes into play, I edit 1080/60 FPS stuff in Final Cut 7 on OS 10.5 from the internal drive flawlessly.
My MBPro is from 2007. 4 GB ram.

Another thing you might consider for the future is replacing the CD-Drive with an SSD drive. That is on my "to do" list, and everyone tells me how great it is.

[mantic]

Just to follow up with this thread.

After much reading and trial an error... I've made the process of watching and editing my video much smoother by converting my media to Apple ProRes 422. My computer seems to be able to render this format ok.. it's still a bit choppy when editing, but much better than what I was experiencing before. I just have to face that my MBP is old and outdated. I did place an order for a g-tech 2tb external drive, it should be here today. I also bought a 2gb stick of ram (my MBP can only utilize 3gb of ram )... I'm hoping the new drive will smooth it out a little more. My internal HD only has 3gigs free left. I'll let you guys know how it goes, it seem there are quite a few members on here with older Macbook Pros trying to iron out the same issues.

[mantic]

Update

I got my new drive and connected it with fw800 and maxed out my ram. Things are running pretty well editing 720hd @ 60fps, but I think that's about the max my system will handle without dropping frames.

Great looking drive btw.

[treatment]

Originally Posted by mantic

update

i got my new drive and connected it with fw800 and maxed out my ram. Things are running pretty well editing 720hd @ 60fps, but i think that's about the max my system will handle without dropping frames.

Great looking drive btw.

image

nice!

[Chad3eleven]

You need to transcode that footage.

I edit daily with all sorts of footage, and even on a 16 core macpro, RAW go pro, or 5d footage needs to be rendered for playback.. which still takes some time. of course once its rendered its fine, but every little edit or effect needs to be re-rendered.. Now if we transcode that to an Apple Pro Res flavor of QT. then I have much better throughput (editing on FCP7 FYI)

I may have missed it, but what are you editing on? iMovie? FCP?

The main reason why you they have frame rates above 24 or 30 is for slowing it down.. called over cranking. If you shoot at 60, then play it back at 24. then it will be slowed down 2.5 times. Higher end cameras go up to 96, 128, and then there are the phantom cameras that shoot 1000's of frames per second.

Also, the higher of framerate you shoot, the more home video/amateur it will look. If you shoot at 24, that is more cinematic. But different cameras handle those frame rates differently. My Canon 5D at 24 fps is amazing... my little Canon Vixia at 24 sucks.

[mantic]

Originally Posted by Chad3eleven

You need to transcode that footage.

I edit daily with all sorts of footage, and even on a 16 core macpro, RAW go pro, or 5d footage needs to be rendered for playback.. which still takes some time. of course once its rendered its fine, but every little edit or effect needs to be re-rendered.. Now if we transcode that to an Apple Pro Res flavor of QT. then I have much better throughput (editing on FCP7 FYI)

I may have missed it, but what are you editing on? iMovie? FCP?

The main reason why you they have frame rates above 24 or 30 is for slowing it down.. called over cranking. If you shoot at 60, then play it back at 24. then it will be slowed down 2.5 times. Higher end cameras go up to 96, 128, and then there are the phantom cameras that shoot 1000's of frames per second.

Also, the higher of framerate you shoot, the more home video/amateur it will look. If you shoot at 24, that is more cinematic. But different cameras handle those frame rates differently. My Canon 5D at 24 fps is amazing... my little Canon Vixia at 24 sucks.

The video I shoot is from my gopro hero 3 black, its output is mp4 format. Before editing, I convert these files to Apple ProRes 422 and edit them in Final Cut Pro 7. This camera maxes out at 120fps in 720 HD, but I have yet to play with that setting.

I'm very new to this. This is my first ever video in FCP 7, and unfortunately, even though It was shot at 60fps, I was not aware of the correct way to attain slow motion when I made it. So, the slow motion used in this clip was done using FCP 7's speed adjustment.

http://youtu.be/o8bcMaLQf0I

[Chad3eleven]

Good that you transcoded to APR.. 422 is just fine.. you could go with LT and save space, and you wont notice a difference.

There are a few steps to get the footage shot at 60 to playback at 24 or 30.. yet be in slow mo.. and it is not using the built in speed adjustment.

Yes will it look slowed down? of course.. but to do it properly there are steps involved.

heres one video that may help:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BZGsTp4V9IY

the other route is to take your raw mp4 into compressor, then somewhere in the settings you set it to PLAYBACK at 24, but really its still 60fps.

I'll have to dig around and find a link to show you how to do it in compressor.

I know you made a comment on the youtube page about quality.. how did you prep the file that was then uploaded? No matter what, YT will compress it a bit, so you wont be able to see the same quality on your edit and then see it on youtube..

[mantic]

Originally Posted by Chad3eleven

Good that you transcoded to APR.. 422 is just fine.. you could go with LT and save space, and you wont notice a difference.

There are a few steps to get the footage shot at 60 to playback at 24 or 30.. yet be in slow mo.. and it is not using the built in speed adjustment.

Yes will it look slowed down? of course.. but to do it properly there are steps involved.

heres one video that may help:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BZGsTp4V9IY

the other route is to take your raw mp4 into compressor, then somewhere in the settings you set it to PLAYBACK at 24, but really its still 60fps.

I'll have to dig around and find a link to show you how to do it in compressor.

I know you made a comment on the youtube page about quality.. how did you prep the file that was then uploaded? No matter what, YT will compress it a bit, so you wont be able to see the same quality on your edit and then see it on youtube..

Thanks.. I have read into changing the playback fps, and am now familiar with it. I'm pretty sure that I exported the video into ProRes 422.

The loss in quality really is noticeable on youtube.