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Old Jun 3, 2013, 07:34 AM   #476
deconstruct60
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However the fact remains they cannot keep supporting new graphics cards ad infinitum.
What do you think the rest of the Mac line up uses for graphics? Tiny Oompa Loomps running around on a treadmill ? Largely the same basic graphics architecture updates that are going into the mid-high range mainstream desktop cards is eventually going to go into the mobile versions (if not concurrently). Evolving graphics architectures have to be supported over time or else graphics is dead on the Mac product line.

In short, even if there isn't a new Mac Pro to attach a new graphics card to Apple (and the GPU vendors ) need to keep the driver updates going. If they only work on it when about to release a machine they likely will loose team expertise over time (folks will go off to other projects during lulls ) and/or won't be able to ship without an extended delay when new GPU technology is released. Neither one of those is a good idea for the Mac line up in general or the Mac Pro specifically if want to be competitive in the modern personal computer market.

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he Titan card has PCIe 3 capability so eventually the Mac Pro will refresh.
The entire rest of the Mac product line up is already on PCI-e v3.0. So does the other drivers that have been released already for 2012 era GPUs.

Specific GK-100 work in an OS X beta or release is indicative of a new Mac Pro card since the architecture derivative optimized for workstation/server GPGPU work probably isn't going to evolve into one that will move "mobile"/"mainstream over the short term. A several years from now though the "mobile" GPU that some folks will sneer at being in an iMac will be the equivalent of a Titan. ( maybe not all the double precision throughput but certainly on the single precision side. )
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Old Jun 3, 2013, 08:56 AM   #477
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What do you think the rest of the Mac line up uses for graphics? Tiny Oompa Loomps running around on a treadmill ? Largely the same basic graphics architecture updates that are going into the mid-high range mainstream desktop cards is eventually going to go into the mobile versions (if not concurrently). Evolving graphics architectures have to be supported over time or else graphics is dead on the Mac product line.

In short, even if there isn't a new Mac Pro to attach a new graphics card to Apple (and the GPU vendors ) need to keep the driver updates going. If they only work on it when about to release a machine they likely will loose team expertise over time (folks will go off to other projects during lulls ) and/or won't be able to ship without an extended delay when new GPU technology is released. Neither one of those is a good idea for the Mac line up in general or the Mac Pro specifically if want to be competitive in the modern personal computer market.



The entire rest of the Mac product line up is already on PCI-e v3.0. So does the other drivers that have been released already for 2012 era GPUs.

Specific GK-100 work in an OS X beta or release is indicative of a new Mac Pro card since the architecture derivative optimized for workstation/server GPGPU work probably isn't going to evolve into one that will move "mobile"/"mainstream over the short term. A several years from now though the "mobile" GPU that some folks will sneer at being in an iMac will be the equivalent of a Titan. ( maybe not all the double precision throughput but certainly on the single precision side. )
This is the best one liner I've seen here in quite a while!!
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Old Jun 3, 2013, 10:07 AM   #478
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Mr Wonka

I was referring to the support of desktop (mac pro) cards. I have no experience or interest in laptops. The link i quoted provided info on specific cards that can only be used in a mac pro.


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Old Jun 3, 2013, 01:21 PM   #479
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Nice to see someone with a sense of humor.

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This is the best one liner I've seen here in quite a while!!
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Old Jun 3, 2013, 02:33 PM   #480
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Now if I can get the guy to distill to bullet points I could die a happy man ..

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Old Jun 3, 2013, 03:23 PM   #481
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This is the best one liner I've seen here in quite a while!!
Ah the irony of more than that being quoted.
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Old Jun 3, 2013, 03:34 PM   #482
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Ah the irony of more than that being quoted.
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Old Jun 3, 2013, 03:46 PM   #483
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Not enough bandwidth or speed..

Why does everyone wnat to shrink the thing? What exactly is wrong with it the way it is? It's quiet, cool, and fits under the desk.
Finally. It doesnt even make sense. I would have to buy this iCube AND an iMac? wtf.
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Old Jun 3, 2013, 04:05 PM   #484
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iCube...

Well... the price of the two should be similar to the price of a well equipped MacPro (in golden times) but there will be two separate pieces... Already on sale can be found boxes that allow, through Thunderbolt, to connect external PCI cards... What about CPUs to pass calculations too and RAM to support them...
If we are looking for a JUMP.. something really NEW.. that would be it... A sort of Cray Computing architecture.. modular (buy an extra CPU card and insert it)... just to give calculation powers.. Is not an easy step up.. is a big jump in how you see computers.. but to me is the only way Apple can combine attention to consumers and user interface to pro needs in power and flexibility.

Just as a (ok.. stupid..) example.. I have my speakers on the desk (nice, stylish, etc..) but under the table I keep, almost hidden, the subwoofer.. real engine of the lot... Well..I imagine something like that...

Thunderbolt seems to be fast as PCI interface itself so technically it can be done. But maybe is just science fiction..
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Old Jun 3, 2013, 04:19 PM   #485
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Well... the price of the two should be similar to the price of a well equipped MacPro (in golden times) but there will be two separate pieces... Already on sale can be found boxes that allow, through Thunderbolt, to connect external PCI cards... What about CPUs to pass calculations too and RAM to support them...
If we are looking for a JUMP.. something really NEW.. that would be it... A sort of Cray Computing architecture.. modular (buy an extra CPU card and insert it)... just to give calculation powers.. Is not an easy step up.. is a big jump in how you see computers.. but to me is the only way Apple can combine attention to consumers and user interface to pro needs in power and flexibility.

Just as a (ok.. stupid..) example.. I have my speakers on the desk (nice, stylish, etc..) but under the table I keep, almost hidden, the subwoofer.. real engine of the lot... Well..I imagine something like that...

Thunderbolt seems to be fast as PCI interface itself so technically it can be done. But maybe is just science fiction..
PCI x2/x4

It could probably be done but why? What benefit does it bring?

Sell it make it move my give a **** meter.
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Old Nov 9, 2013, 02:59 PM   #486
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We're almost there!
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Old Nov 9, 2013, 05:54 PM   #487
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People, stay away from the first gen design. Believe me.
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Old Nov 9, 2013, 08:18 PM   #488
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People, stay away from the first gen design. Believe me.
I really wanted to wait till the second generation, but I need it for my current business plan. Apple will of course release the second generation with HDMI 2.0 and various enhancements to get first gen buyers remorse.
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Old Nov 9, 2013, 09:26 PM   #489
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I'm staying away till they bring back dual CPUs.
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Old Nov 9, 2013, 09:44 PM   #490
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Apple will of course release the second generation with HDMI 2.0 and various enhancements to get first gen buyers remorse.
DisplayPort v1.2 doesn't do what that HDMI 2.0 does ? If I recall correctly HDMI 2.0 is simply playing "catch up".

This is only an issue if there is some major blocker to a DisplayPort v1.2 to HDMI 2.0 dongle not being viable.

No doubt there will be improvements that a dongle won't solve (e.g., speed increase with likely DDR4 memory in next iteration) , but not sure this is one of them.

More concern over how well this new, never been widely deployed and used, thermal/power system works has a much bigger "version 1" question mark on it that this.
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Old Nov 9, 2013, 09:49 PM   #491
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I really wanted to wait till the second generation, but I need it for my current business plan. Apple will of course release the second generation with HDMI 2.0 and various enhancements to get first gen buyers remorse.
Of course, but I'm in the same boat as the author of this thread. My Mac Pro 1,1 must be replaced. I need something that can run a 4K monitor. I'll regret it in 14 months and continue to regret it for then next 2-3 years, but I'm upgrading now. The only questions are which options and how much can I afford?
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Old Nov 9, 2013, 10:41 PM   #492
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Of course, but I'm in the same boat as the author of this thread. My Mac Pro 1,1 must be replaced. I need something that can run a 4K monitor. I'll regret it in 14 months and continue to regret it for then next 2-3 years, but I'm upgrading now. The only questions are which options and how much can I afford?
Worrying about HDMI is dumb when displayport is still superior. The problem with it on macs was that thunderbolt didn't support the displayport 1.2 spec, which was finalized close to 4 years ago. Aside from design flaws related to component failures, what is your concern? It could be close to 2 years before you see another refresh. Apple isn't always the first out the door with these things, and you must remember that Xeon EP isn't exactly on a 12 month refresh. It's more like 16-18 months. Tack on 2-3 after official launch for Apple to ship. It will drop quads in favor of 6 cores minimum, but if you get by with a 1,1, even in the next mini would be way faster if not bandwidth limited. I would have to check if the current macbook pros support thunderbolt 2. It's important because that was the spec to add displayport 1.2 support.
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Old Nov 9, 2013, 11:31 PM   #493
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Of course, but I'm in the same boat as the author of this thread. My Mac Pro 1,1 must be replaced. I need something that can run a 4K monitor. I'll regret it in 14 months and continue to regret it for then next 2-3 years, but I'm upgrading now. The only questions are which options and how much can I afford?
nah.. you'll have an awesome computer for two years.. a good computer for two years.. then (and this part varies) you have two years worth of "i need to start thinking about a new computer"
doesn't matter when or what version you buy..
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Old Nov 10, 2013, 07:38 AM   #494
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I'm excited for the new Mac Pro, I'm just still not sure if I can really afford one, so I'll probably be waiting to see if a new Mac Mini surfaces and will decide then (unless my dying machine decides for me).

Thunderbolt 2 has all the bandwidth I'm likely to need, though I won't be buying into it straight away (far too expensive). This is why I'm self-building a RAID enclosure, so that I can use much cheaper USB 3 controllers for now, and swap for Thunderbolt in future. Plus with a 9x 5.25" bay case I can accommodate up to 15x 3.5" drives, or up to 36x 2.5" drives; that ought to keep my needs covered for the next hundred years or so


But yeah, I know lots of people are disappointed that Apple is dropping the workstation form factor, and I initially was too, but I've fallen in love with the new form factor as it's such a neat little machine, and even with external storage will take up a lot less space than my current Mac Pro. If it's close to as quiet and powerful as Apple are suggesting then it should be a perfect upgrade.

I'm also very much of the opinion that OpenCL is the future for high performance individual computing, and I do like gaming when I should be working, so solid GPUs, even if they're not really for gaming, is worth paying for IMO. But if I can crunch through video, rendering etc. when I need to then that's not a bad thing either!
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Old Nov 10, 2013, 07:49 AM   #495
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Worrying about HDMI is dumb when displayport is still superior. The problem with it on macs was that thunderbolt didn't support the displayport 1.2 spec, which was finalized close to 4 years ago. Aside from design flaws related to component failures, what is your concern?
My concern is monitor size and resolution. I'm really ignorant about issues like HDMI and display port 1.2. I've been getting educated here for the past two weeks. Buying the Seiki looks like a workable short-term solution. I'll probably hedge my bet by waiting a few months. I'd like to have some confidence that in a couple of years when better monitors are available at reasonable prices $1K-$2K I'll be able to upgrade to one (or two). I think the new Mac Pro provides that assurance, but I'm far from certain.

In the past I've stayed away from first-generation designs. I waited a year till the fat Mac came out before buying my first Mac in 1985. Now I've painted myself in a bit of a corner so I'm going to buy a nMP probably before the end of the year.

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Old Dec 19, 2013, 03:36 AM   #496
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Ta daaa!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

It's here!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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Old Dec 19, 2013, 03:56 AM   #497
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Ta daaa!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

It's here!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
way to keep this thread alive and kicking, although it seems we're all going to be waiting at least a couple more weeks, if not longer before we get our hands on it.
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