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Old Oct 31, 2012, 01:29 PM   #1
Kryptik.Kode
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Question TRIM Question

I put an OCZ Vertex 4 SSD in my 2012 Mac Mini. I have heard mixed reviews about TRIM. Some people say use it, some people say don't. Some say use TRIM Enabler. Some say TRIM Enabler is risky and you should run the terminal commands to enable TRIM yourself. I am looking for some feedback on this topic.
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Old Oct 31, 2012, 01:31 PM   #2
maflynn
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I believe the OCZ Vertex uses the Sandforce controller and so it handles the garbage collection on the controller so TRIM is not needed.

I had enabled TRIM on my older MBP without any ill-effects, but YMMV
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Old Oct 31, 2012, 02:29 PM   #3
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My 2 cents…..I enable trim because Apple enables trim on the SSD's that it provides. I currently use Grant Pannell's trim enabler, here:

http://digitaldj.net/2011/07/21/trim-enabler-for-lion/

On his web page he describes how the trim enabler application used to use an older version kext to provide this functionality and that this method is dangerous. The trim enabler application does have a new version (2.0 versus the one that Grant references 1.1 and 1.2), but I do not know what mechanism it uses and until I find out I will not use it. Trim enabler, here:

http://www.groths.org/?page_id=322

More recently I have been reading another thread on the subject where the person has expanded on Grant's work, here:

http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?t=1409151

Essentially what this person found was that if you replace the APPLE SSD string in the appropriate kext file, with the 9-character text string of your drive, it will enable trim.
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Old Nov 12, 2012, 01:41 PM   #4
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Not trying to hijack this post but I recently bought the Samsung 830 256GB and don't know much about TRIM and its purpose. Will I need it with this drive or does it just make it faster?

Thanks
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Old Nov 12, 2012, 02:54 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kryptik.Kode View Post
I put an OCZ Vertex 4 SSD in my 2012 Mac Mini. I have heard mixed reviews about TRIM. Some people say use it, some people say don't. Some say use TRIM Enabler. Some say TRIM Enabler is risky and you should run the terminal commands to enable TRIM yourself. I am looking for some feedback on this topic.
For the last time: TRIM IS NOT NEEDED IN SANDFORCE-ENABLED SSDs!

Forget the bad advice by some people here - even OWC itself has already explained that TRIM is NOT only redundant but also potentially harmful to your SSD's performance.

Don't bother about it; just use your Vertex just like I do, without any performance or reliability hits.
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Old Nov 12, 2012, 02:57 PM   #6
lixuelai
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For the last time: TRIM IS NOT NEEDED IN SANDFORCE-ENABLED SSDs!

Forget the bad advice by some people here - even OWC itself has already explained that TRIM is NOT only redundant but also potentially harmful to your SSD's performance.

Don't bother about it; just use your Vertex just like I do, without any performance or reliability hits.
Except the Vertex 4 doesn't use a Sandforce controller.
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Old Nov 12, 2012, 03:20 PM   #7
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Except the Vertex 4 doesn't use a Sandforce controller.
I thought it did, as said by someone else above. In this case, the case is less clear, although I would still assume that garbage-collection tech is a given in the new Everest 2 model...

http://www.anandtech.com/print/5719
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Old Nov 12, 2012, 03:41 PM   #8
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I thought it did, as said by someone else above. In this case, the case is less clear, although I would still assume that garbage-collection tech is a given in the new Everest 2 model...

http://www.anandtech.com/print/5719
All modern SSD controllers have garbage collection. The Vertex 4 uses a Marvell controller and OCZ just rebranded it. Trim is still beneficial nonetheless.

btw you are right trim isn't absolutely "needed". It is more an issue of you can have the cake and eat it too and 99% of the time (osx trim issues were mostly Sanforce 12xx related which is really old), you can.

Last edited by lixuelai; Nov 12, 2012 at 03:50 PM.
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Old Nov 24, 2012, 12:07 AM   #9
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I have a Vertex 4 too and I feel like the issue is still fuzzy. So enabling TRIM would help because it isn't using Sandforce? Or is the firmware garbage collection just as good?

If I do decide to enable trim what is the best method to use? Trim Enabler was rewritten. Is the new way it works the "safe" way?

On a related note do I need to turn off spotlight? Or the other tricks i've heard to extend the ssd life like disabling noatime flags, local timemachine snapshots, and hibernation? Are these not problems on Apple's SSDs because Mountain Lion detects them as SSDs?

I doubt I'll get the exact answers I want because it seems like there is a lot of speculation going on.

Last edited by hadees; Nov 24, 2012 at 12:13 AM.
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Old Nov 24, 2012, 01:42 AM   #10
davidlv
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Check this link out: http://chameleon.alessandroboschini.it/index.php
I used this without any issues on an Intel 335 SSD MBP late 2011.
It also allows you set other functions, noatime, etc.
The Trim Enabler app has been revised and now patches the related kext file rather than using an old version, so it works well too.
The issues with Sandforce controllers largely depends on the firmware employed, and you can get info on each model here on the forums or other sources on the web. Judging from their web site info, OWC obviously has done enough testing to confirm that trim shouldn't be used on their SSDs, but I have had no problems with my Intel SSD, which also uses a Sandforce controller, but with Intel's firmware.
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Old Nov 30, 2012, 03:27 AM   #11
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Hey guys, I've been using a Crucial M4 512GB SSD for almost 2 months now. I still have about 300GB of free space left and I'm contemplating enabling TRIM.

But before I do so, should I do anything else? I think I read somewhere that you should TRIM the free space first or something?
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Old Nov 30, 2012, 05:43 AM   #12
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You should trim the free space after you enable trim. Which just means write stuff over all the free space and delete it with Trim enabled so the SSD knows that all these stuff is actually free space.

What a lot of people don't seem to understand is that all SSDs have some form of garbage collection but that only works best with Trim enabled. Without the Trim one effectively runs an SSD that is constantly filled up 100% except for the spare area. GC can otherwise only try to work with the spare area (which drives like the M4 have almost nothing of), it can only collect stuff that has been overwritten.
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Old Nov 30, 2012, 07:53 AM   #13
jon08
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How exactly do I trim the free space once I've enabled TRIM?
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Old Nov 30, 2012, 08:31 AM   #14
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[QUOTE=jon08;16396536]Hey guys, I've been using a Crucial M4 512GB SSD for almost 2 months now. I still have about 300GB of free space left and I'm contemplating enabling TRIM.[QUOTE]You don't need TRIM hacks enabled for the Crucial.

I have the exact same drive. 18 months now, no TRIM and no change in speed. This drive is used heavily too.
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Old Nov 30, 2012, 10:03 AM   #15
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How exactly do I trim the free space once I've enabled TRIM?
Start in single user mode then type "fsck -fy" (without the quotes) at the command line.
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Old Nov 30, 2012, 10:19 AM   #16
lukester
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I just put in a Vertex 4 in my mid 2010 MBP and I am using Trim enabler.
It says it is working fine.
should I use it or not?
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Old Nov 30, 2012, 11:14 AM   #17
greenbreadmmm
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Originally Posted by jon08 View Post
Hey guys, I've been using a Crucial M4 512GB SSD for almost 2 months now. I still have about 300GB of free space left and I'm contemplating enabling TRIM.

But before I do so, should I do anything else? I think I read somewhere that you should TRIM the free space first or something?
Crucial has its own cleaning software that runs in the background when system is idle, no need to enable trim.
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Old Nov 30, 2012, 11:28 AM   #18
jon08
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Crucial has its own cleaning software that runs in the background when system is idle, no need to enable trim.
I know it has a garbage collection thing, but I'm just not convinced if that's enough...
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Old Nov 30, 2012, 11:43 AM   #19
Krazy Bill
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I know it has a garbage collection thing, but I'm just not convinced if that's enough...
Like I said... my 18 month old "never-been-on-trim" Crucial disagrees. What is convincing you otherwise?
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Old Nov 30, 2012, 12:42 PM   #20
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Should trim be enabled after formatting and before the old drive is cloned to the SSD?
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Old Nov 30, 2012, 01:39 PM   #21
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I know it has a garbage collection thing, but I'm just not convinced if that's enough...
Look at it this way... even if you do not enable TRIM and two years later you notice write speeds have dropped due to no TRIM, all you do is enable TRIM then run "fsck -fy" from single user mode and this erases all free space making the drive like new again. So there is not danger/damage to any SSD by not running TRIM.

I fall on the conservative side of not hacking core system files, but that's just me.

----------

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Should trim be enabled after formatting and before the old drive is cloned to the SSD?
You would need to do it after the clone with the OS on the SSD.
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Old Nov 30, 2012, 06:50 PM   #22
Krazy Bill
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Look at it this way... even if you do not enable TRIM and two years later you notice write speeds have dropped due to no TRIM, all you do is enable TRIM then run "fsck -fy" from single user mode and this erases all free space making the drive like new again. So there is not danger/damage to any SSD by not running TRIM.
I tried this once when my system did slow down a tad after reverting back to Snow Leopard. It didn't do any good. To get back to fast SSD speeds I:

1.) Cloned my SSD to an external
2.) Did a normal 10 second erase of the SSD
3.) Cloned the external back to the SSD.

Normal SSD speeds came back. No problems since.
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