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Old Jun 20, 2014, 01:51 AM   #101
Southern Dad
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Originally Posted by mrkramer View Post
Abdiwali Abdiqadir Muse Unless the Indian Ocean off of Somalia is all of a sudden US territory.
Good research but, that one attacked a US Flagged ship at sea in international waters. Which, is a whole new set of laws. Again, I'm just looking at this from a defense lawyer's point of view. If you attacked the University of Phoenix campus in Atlanta, can Arizona try you? Wouldn't you be arguing that Georgia laws apply? Think of the evidence that they are going to be able to demand to see, whether they use it in court or not.

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Old Jun 20, 2014, 02:39 AM   #102
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Again, I'm just looking at this from a defense lawyer's point of view.
Are you a defense attorney?

If not, if you have no experience as a defense attorney, how can you even pretend to be "looking at this from a defense lawyer's point of view"?
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Old Jun 20, 2014, 03:34 AM   #103
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Are you a defense attorney?

If not, if you have no experience as a defense attorney, how can you even pretend to be "looking at this from a defense lawyer's point of view"?
No, I'm not a defense attorney. I once watched Perry Mason. There is no requirement that you actually be an attorney to think about it from their point of view. Do you not see any issues that could come up with a prosecution like this using our rules of evidence? Think about it, they are questioning him onboard a ship in international waters, right now. None of what he says can be used against him since he has not yet been Mirandized.

We know that there were drones overhead. Are we going to give the defense attorneys those videos? Will they be allowed to question the operators? What about the survivors? Will they get the names and contact information for those people? Can they take depositions? Can they be subpoenaed?

Our court rules are designed to give a defendant every opportunity to build a defense. All evidence that will be used by the prosecutor is required to be disclosed to the defense in advance. This individual is going to have a defense team to rival OJ's.
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Old Jun 20, 2014, 09:52 AM   #104
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No, I'm not a defense attorney. I once watched Perry Mason. There is no requirement that you actually be an attorney to think about it from their point of view. Do you not see any issues that could come up with a prosecution like this using our rules of evidence? Think about it, they are questioning him onboard a ship in international waters, right now. None of what he says can be used against him since he has not yet been Mirandized.

We know that there were drones overhead. Are we going to give the defense attorneys those videos? Will they be allowed to question the operators? What about the survivors? Will they get the names and contact information for those people? Can they take depositions? Can they be subpoenaed?

Our court rules are designed to give a defendant every opportunity to build a defense. All evidence that will be used by the prosecutor is required to be disclosed to the defense in advance. This individual is going to have a defense team to rival OJ's.
More gish gallop.

And now if you'll excuse me, I'm going to think about bridges from the point of view of a structural engineer ...

How do those things hold up? They're standing in water ... how come they don't sink? What about all of the bridges that have fallen down in the past? Who built them? What's my guarantee that it won't happen again?

Hey, I'm just trying to have a conversation.


Sure you are.
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Old Jun 20, 2014, 10:29 AM   #105
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More gish gallop.

And now if you'll excuse me, I'm going to think about bridges from the point of view of a structural engineer ...

How do those things hold up? They're standing in water ... how come they don't sink? What about all of the bridges that have fallen down in the past? Who built them? What's my guarantee that it won't happen again?

Hey, I'm just trying to have a conversation.


Sure you are.
Really? Do you not have anything to add to the conversation? Do you think that defense attorneys are going to be trying everything that they can to save this client's life?
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Old Jun 20, 2014, 10:37 AM   #106
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Think about it, they are questioning him onboard a ship in international waters, right now. None of what he says can be used against him since he has not yet been Mirandized.
Let me get this straight: You are so besotted with your conviction that Barack Obama is a dreadful President, that you are suddenly all concerned about a terrorism suspect's right to a fair trial?

Yes. I suppose it would be much simpler just to pack him off to Guantanamo Bay. Its sort of the legal equivalent of sweeping dirt under a rug.

I may very well be wrong about this, but I'm pretty sure the Justice Department has enough evidence to convict this guy, regardless of what he says on board ship and before he is Mirandized.

I'll tell you my little theory about this: The Republicans don't want this guy tried in Federal Court because its going to make it pretty obvious that there simply was no Benghazi scandal to begin with. And that they've been wasting everybody's time for the last two and a half years.
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Old Jun 20, 2014, 10:45 AM   #107
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Let me get this straight: You are so besotted with your conviction that Barack Obama is a dreadful President, that you are suddenly all concerned about a terrorism suspect's right to a fair trial?

Yes. I suppose it would be much simpler just to pack him off to Guantanamo Bay. Its sort of the legal equivalent of sweeping dirt under a rug.

I may very well be wrong about this, but I'm pretty sure the Justice Department has enough evidence to convict this guy, regardless of what he says on board ship and before he is Mirandized.

I'll tell you my little theory about this: The Republicans don't want this guy tried in Federal Court because its going to make it pretty obvious that there simply was no Benghazi scandal to begin with. And that they've been wasting everybody's time for the last two and a half years.
I haven't said anything about worrying about Obama or even disagreeing with his decision. My questions come under our federal court rules of evidence this guy's attorneys are going to have a field day. They can ask for anything. If the government refuses to give it to them, a mistrial could quickly be in the works or an overturn on appeal.

This isn't about the scandal, at all. I don't expect anyone will ever come clean on that but this guy is now on trial for his life. In the USA we give the defendant in a trial a lot of rights including the right to examine all evidence, talk to all witnesses and even call witnesses who could help their case.

I see the prosecutor having a difficult time just getting to trial.
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Old Jun 20, 2014, 10:56 AM   #108
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They can ask for anything. If the government refuses to give it to them, a mistrial could quickly be in the works or an overturn on appeal..
They can ask for the moon. But a Judge isn't going to give it to them.

Johnny Cochrane isn't going to get the job of representing this guy. This trial isn't going to end up headlining Entertainment Tonight. And there will be exactly zero Khardashians associated, in any way whatsoever, with the legal proceedings.

In all probability, the legal defense team will negotiate a sentence of (relatively) reduced severity in exchange for the defendant's cooperation with US intelligence and legal authorities. And yes - that will most likely involve some sort of a plea bargain.

We've tried terror suspects before without violating national security. And without the proceedings turning into a circus. We'll do it again.
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Old Jun 20, 2014, 11:24 AM   #109
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Really? Do you not have anything to add to the conversation? Do you think that defense attorneys are going to be trying everything that they can to save this client's life?
My addition to this thread was pointing out that you pretending to see through the eyes of a defense attorney is as ridiculous as me pretending to be a structural engineer.

All of your questions can be answered by simply being patient and letting the proceedings take place. Nobody knows exactly what's going to happen. It's the beauty of the process, it's a free trial, it's not dictated, unexpected twists and turns will occur.
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Old Jun 20, 2014, 11:27 AM   #110
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My addition to this thread was pointing out that you pretending to see through the eyes of a defense attorney is as ridiculous as me pretending to be a structural engineer.

All of your questions can be answered by simply being patient and letting the proceedings take place. Nobody knows exactly what's going to happen. It's the beauty of the process, it's a free trial, it's not dictated, unexpected twists and turns will take place.
The members of our Congress had trouble getting the names of the survivors, let alone getting to speak to them. Our government didn't secure the crime scene for weeks. You think a defense team is not going to have discovery problems? This case is going to be huge IF it goes to trial.
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Old Jun 20, 2014, 11:31 AM   #111
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This case is going to be huge IF it goes to trial.
So?

And?

Why don't you answer your own question.

What do you think will happen?
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Old Jun 20, 2014, 11:40 AM   #112
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So?

And?

Why don't you answer your own question.

What do you think will happen?
I think they'll play "Let's make a deal..." There is no way, they'll give the defense everything that they need to defend this case. Of course, right now he's on a "Slow boat to the USA..." being questioned prior to reaching US soil and being read his rights.

We're two years after the fact. I'd say most of the evidence such as the scene is long destroyed. I wouldn't be surprised if we give him back to Libya to serve his time.
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Old Jun 20, 2014, 11:44 AM   #113
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Originally Posted by vrDrew View Post
Let me get this straight: You are so besotted with your conviction that Barack Obama is a dreadful President, that you are suddenly all concerned about a terrorism suspect's right to a fair trial?

Yes. I suppose it would be much simpler just to pack him off to Guantanamo Bay. Its sort of the legal equivalent of sweeping dirt under a rug.

I may very well be wrong about this, but I'm pretty sure the Justice Department has enough evidence to convict this guy, regardless of what he says on board ship and before he is Mirandized.

I'll tell you my little theory about this: The Republicans don't want this guy tried in Federal Court because its going to make it pretty obvious that there simply was no Benghazi scandal to begin with. And that they've been wasting everybody's time for the last two and a half years.


You know what? If Obama's plan were to bring him to Guantanamo, Southern Dad would be in here posting how Barack H. Obama promised to close down Guantanamo and here he is adding people there. He's all about Obama bashing. Obama Derangement Syndrome one might say.
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Old Jun 20, 2014, 11:45 AM   #114
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You know what? If Obama's plan were to bring him to Guantanamo, Southern Dad would be in here posting how Barack H. Obama promised to close down Guantanamo and here he is adding people there. He's all about Obama bashing. Obama Derangement Syndrome one might say.
You love to say what I would do if... but you don't know until it happens.
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Old Jun 20, 2014, 11:50 AM   #115
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You love to say what I would do if... but you don't know until it happens.
The best predictor of future behavior is past behavior...
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Old Jun 20, 2014, 11:52 AM   #116
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You love to say what I would do if... but you don't know until it happens.
That's exactly what I think about this trial.
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Old Jun 20, 2014, 12:06 PM   #117
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You love to say what I would do if... but you don't know until it happens.
Scary, isn't it?
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Old Jun 20, 2014, 12:23 PM   #118
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You love to say what I would do if... but you don't know until it happens.

Really? Do you want me to dig up all your posts bashing Obama when he wasn't even the subject of the thread?


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The best predictor of future behavior is past behavior...

BOOM!
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Old Jun 20, 2014, 12:31 PM   #119
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Really? Do you want me to dig up all your posts bashing Obama when he wasn't even the subject of the thread?

BOOM!
I don't hide the contempt that I feel for our amateur President. We elected a first term senator to the White House who had zero leadership experience. Of course, by the same token we can pull up the numerous Bash Bush posts from the left. But when I don't even mention him in a thread, I can count on some to go ahead and post if for me.
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Old Jun 20, 2014, 01:33 PM   #120
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We elected a first term senator to the White House who had zero leadership experience.
Yeah, we know: Barack Obama never was a 2nd Lt in the army or assistant manager at a paint store, so he has "zero leadership experience."

According to a standard that apparently only people like you seem to understand.

Give it a rest.
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