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Old Aug 16, 2013, 12:06 AM   #76
maxosx
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Originally Posted by JoEw View Post
I have a feeling it is more about securing content. That is pretty much what is holding it back.
I have a feeling you're 100% correct
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Old Aug 20, 2013, 05:48 PM   #77
jettredmont
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Originally Posted by VanillaCracker View Post
You're kidding me right? Does anyone even know anything about statistics? A 10k sample is more than enough to represent something like this in statistical value. You get a smaller sample for more precise things like politics, and they even consider that to be a good size. 10k doesn't need to be 330 million if it accurately represents the demographic. That's the whole point of statistics.

Stop trying to bad mouth the results, because if you and other people haven't realized, Roku is actually a better product. Many people want to like the ATV more, but they don't. I'm sure in a few years apple will actually take the time to develop the product. But until then it is going to have to settle for second place. And we'll see where Google's Chromecast comes into play in a few months
Not to nit-pick, but the relevant sample size is 1,400, because you are starting from the 14% subset of that 10,000.

According to the first Margin of Error calculator Google gave me, if we assume 100M households with broadband (that number is likely high though) a sample size of 1,400 gives +/- 2.62% with 95% confidence. So, on its face, the percentages (37% for Roku and 24% for ATV) are well outside the maximal margin of error.

More important, though, is the underlying methodology (which is not freely published). In most cases of fishy results, the results get skewed due to poor question phrasing or non-random sampling.

I've had an AppleTV for many years, and also used a Roku. The survey results certainly don't jibe with my experience except in one narrow aspect. The Roku is downright frustrating to use, slow, and fidgety. The AppleTV just works. Add to this a huge install base advantage from sales numbers for the AppleTV, and the survey results don't seem likely to be explained by relative price (there is too large of a portion which must have both).

The only rational explanation I can see here is diversity of content. AppleTV is a great device to stream my own library (since that library is already in iTunes), Hulu Plus, and Netflix. Roku rounds that out with a passable implementation of Amazon Prime streaming (I have yet to see a "good" implementation of Amazon Prime; its like Amazon doesn't know what it is doing with streaming). Apple's interface is starting to get rather cluttered with for-pay services and services tied to a cable subscription, which I think is a mistake all around. But, the same has always been true of Roku, so I don't think that is a reason for the use differences.

Which leaves me with Amazon Prime. Are there enough Amazon Prime subscribers who actually use the streaming video service to tilt the balance so far in favor of Roku?

I don't know. It just doesn't smell right. I'd need to see the underlying methodology and questions to put any trust in the results of this survey. Extraordinary claims need extraordinary evidence and all that.

----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by JamesInLA View Post
You're kidding, right? A national random sample of 10,000 gives you a margin of error of about +/- 1%, at the 95% confidence level (as is typically reported for national election polls, for example).

A sample one-fourth that size would give you a margin of error of about 2%.

It's plenty big enough.
Just to reiterate what I said to the previous statistician: the relevant subsample size is 1,400 broadband users who had broadband and use a media console device, if the free abstract / press release is to be believed. The MoE is 2.62%.

Still statistically valid, but if you're going to correct someone's misunderstanding of stats, don't miss the rather important subsample effect.

I should note: I am taking the "survey of 10,000" blurb in the abstract to indicate that there were 10,000 responses, not just 10k broadband users contacted. The details of the survey would be necessary to determine if there is further subsampling (random or directed) involved.

Last edited by jettredmont; Aug 20, 2013 at 05:58 PM.
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Old Aug 20, 2013, 06:05 PM   #78
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Originally Posted by arkmannj View Post
if the AspleTV 3 could have had a corefire style hack/jailbreak applied to it then I would have purchased several new AppleTV devices, instead I didn't buy any.
If you do a simple Google search for "Apple TV 3 jailbreak" you'll see dozens of links leading to 2-3 good jailbreak mechanisms specifically for the latest AppleTV.

Personally, I'm really happy with the stock AppleTV, and so I can't vouch for any of the mechanisms. But, if you want a cheap pretty-powerful little set-top computer, jailbreaking appears to be quite straightforward these days.


Sorry, after looking into this more, it seems there are top-level links saying AppleTV 3 is covered, but the mechanisms themselves only claim support for ATV 1 and 2. So, probably still not a viable option.

Last edited by jettredmont; Aug 20, 2013 at 06:12 PM. Reason: I was wrong :)
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Old Aug 20, 2013, 06:24 PM   #79
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Originally Posted by PracticalMac View Post
ATV needs to either get more service or drop in price.

Apple could sell the ATV for $29, and recoup costs from all the iTunes streaming sales. It can be a terrific loss-leader for Apple.
I think they should go the other way: offer more services, and keep the buy-in price high. This is the traditional Apple business model, and works great. It allows Apple TV to be a hub instead of yet another single-purpose device.
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Old Aug 20, 2013, 06:35 PM   #80
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Old Aug 21, 2013, 02:05 PM   #81
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jettredmont View Post
If you do a simple Google search for "Apple TV 3 jailbreak" you'll see dozens of links leading to 2-3 good jailbreak mechanisms specifically for the latest AppleTV.

Personally, I'm really happy with the stock AppleTV, and so I can't vouch for any of the mechanisms. But, if you want a cheap pretty-powerful little set-top computer, jailbreaking appears to be quite straightforward these days.


Sorry, after looking into this more, it seems there are top-level links saying AppleTV 3 is covered, but the mechanisms themselves only claim support for ATV 1 and 2. So, probably still not a viable option.
It takes a good [wo]man to admit when they are wrong. (especially on the interwebs) we can still be friends...maybe even share a pint while watching something on a Jailbroken AppleTV 4

but my portion of the Pint will need to be lemonade or something since I don't drink... but you may have whever you like
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Old Aug 21, 2013, 03:29 PM   #82
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Originally Posted by jettredmont View Post
I think they should go the other way: offer more services, and keep the buy-in price high. This is the traditional Apple business model, and works great. It allows Apple TV to be a hub instead of yet another single-purpose device.
That's what I said.

Quote:
ATV needs to either get more service or drop in price.
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