Apple Fined Another $260,000 By Italian Regulators Over AppleCare Practices

bma said:

Erm No - I'm not wrong. It says it comes with a 1 year "Apple Limited Warranty". And it says it, loud and clear, here: http://www.apple.com/uk/legal/statutory-warranty/

You don't have to advertise every single law - if it's implied by law, it's there (i.e. on the motorway, there's not a sign for every motorway law, but the laws are still valid.). Apple's LIMITED warranty is on top of your legal warranty - which is why it always says something like "your statuary rights are not affected". What would you rather happen in month 9 should your iPhone break (remember the burden is on YOU after 6 months)? Apple to replace it (under their limited warranty), or to have to prove that it was faulty at the point of purchase (EU). I know which I'd prefer.

Please check your facts before calling me out like that

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You are wrong, and these are my "facts":
http://images.apple.com/it/legal/warranty/Garanzia_legale_del_Venditore.pdf

I'm sorry about the link, it's Italian, but it shows that NOW apple is reporting a TWO YEARS LEGAL WARRANTY, as prescribed by law, and it is independent by the limited Apple warranty, shown in the same section of the website.

gnasher729 said:

Doesn't matter, because Dell sells longer (2 year) warranty without telling people that they may have the right to a free repair anyway.

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No apples and oranges, Dells sells 2 years of coming to your house and fixing the issue.

Apple sells the standard warrenty once again without any extra's.

That's the whole argument between Italy and Apple: When Apple sells Apple Care, the customer should be told exactly what they are paying for, and they are paying for the difference between their rights through standard manufacturer's warranty plus consumer rights on one side, and Apple Care on the other side.

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This doesnt matter as its already taken care of by law, apple cant just decide what it wants to ignore or not.

If apple wants they can charge for extra's, just like dell nobody would mind that.

The same applies to Dell, you get manufacturer's warranty automatically, and then you can buy for extended warranty. Many people will not care for the "on site" part but just want the extra time, and they get cheated. What I can't quite understand is why you are defending Dell here, who is clearly acting worse than Apple, but apparently nobody in Italy cares. Or they do care, but any fines against Dell don't make the news. Which is also quite possible.

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Actully you dont get europe or dell, dell sells online. Sending it back isnt just taking it to a shop but tediously repackiging it and sending it back. Onsite is a great warrenty.

And defending? I simply point out the flaws in your argument. I own a lot more apple electronics then dell, I doubt I have anything dell that isnt company provided.

If you buy an iPhone, and three days later some thug grabs your phone, throws it hard on the ground, and smashes it, that is clearly not the customer's fault,

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It is period, warrenty is for faults/wear in the device, not these cases.

It's more complicated than that, but not much. First, Apple doesn't have to give any warranty. The _seller_ of a product on the other hand is responsible that products are useful for a reasonable time.

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And thats called the warranty.

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Chlloret said:

And that is correct. The 2year European Waranty is crap and not worth anything. The law gives you 6month, six month that are garanteed. After that, the next 18month, YOU have to prove that the fault was there at the day of purchase. Good luck. First question is, why did you wait 6 month to make a claim?

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Well, I don't know exactly how it works in other EU countries (sometimes things are not always the same) but I live in Italy and I can tell you how it works when you deal with big companies (like Samsung, Sony, etc..) and the two years warranty: you wake up one morning, maybe after 15 months from the purchase, and your iGadget is dead... you go to their nearest official support center with your broken iGadget and a copy of the purchase receipt, they check if the iGadget has been broken by you (phisycally damaged or damaged by water) and they just give you a free replacement.

Apple does exactly the same, but only for 12 months. If you bring your "dead" iGadget after 12 months they just ask if you have the Apple Care, and if the answer is "no, but I should be covered by the 24 months warranty" they just say "There's no 24 months warranty for Apple".

So I hope this is going to change now...

One of the reasons I will stop using Apple products.

In my country they are overpriced (almost twice much then in us) without Apple care, and many other service they charge, and some like the warranty are required by law which is 2 years.
They have great products, but very horrible service here.

AlanFord said:

One of the reasons I will stop using Apple products.

In my country they are overpriced (almost twice much then in us) without Apple care, and many other service they charge, and some like the warranty are required by law which is 2 years.
They have great products, but very horrible service here.

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Does pricing have to do with Apple? It mostly depends on taxes and currency.

Compile 'em all said:

Does pricing have to do with Apple? It mostly depends on taxes and currency.

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Taxes and others are not different then other. I am not talking about few dolars diferences. I could easily buy a reverse plane ticket to us, buy a laptop plus basic ipad, and it would be slightly cheaper then laptop itself. Lets say rmbp basic 15.
I dont know why apple is approving this, and why is it happening, but if you look example i told you plus Apple is not doing things by the law, and some of the things like apple care cant buy, then it is a horrible respect to customers.
Shure i believe in us it is great, here not. Do have ipad and last year mbp and they are great, best i had, but comparing to what i pay and with what i get, and other manufactures the decision its made. If things are diferent like you guys have i would be more then happy apple customer again. I just wonted to say for some us guys who dont understand us european why are we upset, and why Italy demands something that things are not that much great from Apple in some other countrys.

bma said:

It's correct. It comes with a 2 year warranty, but a 1 year "Apple Limited Warranty".

The two are very different things - the EU warranty is similar to the warranty provided by the Sale of Goods Act in the UK - we're covered for 6 years, but you try claiming anything after 6 months - it's near on impossible, takes ages, and requires you to "prove" there was an inherent fault.

That's the key different - Apple's warranty (1 year) provides cover for all faults that develop - the EU warranty provides coverage for 2 years for faults that were present at the time of purchase. I think the italian regulator just needed some $$$.

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Maybe you don't know italian laws
Italian law says that the first year is covered by manufacturers. The second one is covered but vendors.
By the way, when you buy on the online store, or on a Apple Store, Apple is manufacturer and vendor in the same time. It HAVE to give 2 years, but it wasn't until last march.
When I called online store 3 years later, i had the free replacement of a battery (it had an anomaly bloating) of my old macbook 13". At the first time they denied me it (I call after 21 months), but after I named the EU law and Italian law, they agreed the free replacement.
Laws are laws. Apple must respects them.

cole83it said:

Maybe you don't know italian laws
Italian law says that the first year is covered by manufacturers. The second one is covered but vendors.
By the way, when you buy on the online store, or on a Apple Store, Apple is manufacturer and vendor in the same time. It HAVE to give 2 years, but it wasn't until last march.
When I called online store 3 years later, i had the free replacement of a battery (it had an anomaly bloating) of my old macbook 13". At the first time they denied me it (I call after 21 months), but after I named the EU law and Italian law, they agreed the free replacement.
Laws are laws. Apple must respects them.

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Yes, but there is a massive difference between Apple's Limited warranty, and the warranty provided by EU law. If you're using the EU warranty, after 6 months, Apple has no obligation to repair it at all, unless you can prove that the fault was present at the point of purchase.

And yes I do know the law . The information about what I'm talking about is in Article 132, Paragraph 3 of Codice del consume.

k995 said:

No apples and oranges, Dells sells 2 years of coming to your house and fixing the issue.

Apple sells the standard warrenty once again without any extra's.

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The point is that Dell has to fix the issue anyway, because they are the seller. So Dell _claims_ that you pay for 2 years coming to your house and fixing the issue, but what you actually get is 2 years coming to your house. That's misleading the customer.

lavrishevo said:

2 year warranties and universal health care... Yep, the US is doing really good taking care their own.

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+1 however I will say this, it costs more in other countries to get certain things.

That being said, a universal 2 year warranty would be great across the board, but we will see what happens when Apple starts producing products back in the USA, however I do not think the iPhone will make it to the USA.

gnasher729 said:

The point is that Dell has to fix the issue anyway, because they are the seller. So Dell _claims_ that you pay for 2 years coming to your house and fixing the issue, but what you actually get is 2 years coming to your house. That's misleading the customer.

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No it isnt unlike apple dell hasnt got any images that pretend that without the apple care you dont get any warranty beyond 90 days.

You get what dell advertises for: your warranty at your place of choice.

Glideslope said:

Don't be a fool. This is nothing but an Italian money grab in order for EU Bankers to to see they are serious about bringing in outside assets.

So what if Apple uses language Apple Legal feels is adequate? You really expect a country like Italy to not twist any language into an opportunity to generate funds?

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How completely ignorant of you.

Firstly, the size of this fine is truly minuscule when compared to the overall size of the economy, or of the debt. It wouldn't even appear on normal "rounded to the closest .1 billion" governmental accounts.

Secondly, it is levied by an independent judiciary at the request of a consumer protection agency, not a governmental organisation bent on recovering the national debt.

Third, if that were really the point of the exercise, why not simply expropriate all of Apple's locally-owned property??!

qubex said:

How completely ignorant of you.

Firstly, the size of this fine is truly minuscule when compared to the overall size of the economy, or of the debt. It wouldn't even appear on normal "rounded to the closest .1 billion" governmental accounts.

Secondly, it is levied by an independent judiciary at the request of a consumer protection agency, not a governmental organisation bent on recovering the national debt.

Third, if that were really the point of the exercise, why not simply expropriate all of Apple's locally-owned property??!

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ROFLOL. Too much Vino.

Glideslope said:

ROFLOL. Too much Vino.

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You're just a racist.

My statement was retorical.

I'm not reading anything by you.