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Old Oct 31, 2012, 02:07 PM   #26
KALLT
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The pricing absolutely doesn't feel right. While the iOS app is almost a no-brainer with its low-end pricing for its attractiveness, the Mac app doesn't even get close. That price requires a bit of consideration first and to me, this looks almost the same as the iOS app, with more intuitive controls for the Mac. I'd rather see a price up to $7.99, but nothing more.
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Old Oct 31, 2012, 02:18 PM   #27
Saladinos
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nikf View Post
Disclaimer: I work at Realmac Software, makers of Clear.

Thanks for your feedback, guys. It's interesting to hear your thoughts on the app and pricing. Pricing it is always tricky, and whilst some folks may think that pricing is something that is simply determined at the last moment, that's not the case with us. We gave the Clear pricing a **lot** of thought (and continue to do so). We think great apps are worth paying for, and we want to ensure that we can always continue to build apps that people want to use.

Thanks again, I hope you enjoy using Clear for Mac and iPhone w/iCloud when it launches next week.

—Nik

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Not enough, by the looks of it.

I'm totally against the way these Mac apps totally rip their users off - as a developer myself, I know there is very little difference in creating an iOS or OSX app. In fact, in many respects it's easier on OSX because users don't hold the screen close to their faces to notice every little thing. The artwork on OSX is a similar or even lower resolution to that needed on iOS devices. Some things are a little more involved due to the less modern AppKit framework, but overall it doesn't justify the price.

Clear is even worse - the minimalist look means that it doesn't have lots of fancy artwork they need to pay designers to remake. It's just solid colours.

Clear on iOS was a nice concept app, but it was clearly built for the UI demo and not the function it supposedly is for (todos). It's a rudimentary todo manager at best. I know lots of people who were attracted by the video and bought it; none of them still use it.

I could go further - I don't think the hyper-gesture approach of Clear on iOS even makes sense on OSX. What am I supposed to do, drag an item with my mouse pointer to create a new one? How is that any easier or more intuitive than clicking a simple "+" button? The flaw with the (admittedly attractive) Clear UI concept is that it totally relies on direct manipulation. Once you're pointing at things indirectly by using a mouse cursor, I can tell it won't be nearly as fun.

My prefrontal cortex is telling me this app will be awkward to use, and that I'll likely still not use it even with iCloud sync (FYI, Notes does it for free). The price means I'm not even going to take a punt on it.

Honestly, what I think is that Clear on iOS has run out of steam: it was always a UI demo more than an app, and it's not exciting any more. You'd like a similar cash cow, so you've settled on the cheapest, laziest option: bring it to the Mac (and that's even useful for todo syncing, but that wasn't why you did it. Or you would have done it ages ago. Even now you could also implement it with EventKit and not force people to buy your complimentary app to sync their todos, but we both know you won't).

Luckily for you Mac apps have a higher price (due to pre-AppStore legacy), so that means you can be totally unimaginative and just port a ill-fitting experience and even charge more for it! This is exactly the kind of thinking that we need less of; it has nothing to do with development costs (I'd gladly pay more for something genuinely new and innovative).

</rant>
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Old Oct 31, 2012, 02:19 PM   #28
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I'm looking forward to this. I use Simpletask at the moment, mostly at work, but I'm frustrated by the lack of Cloud Based syncing and the ability to separate tasks into multiple categories. While $15 is a lot, this is the first app that I've seen that does everything I need.

At work, I'm only running 10.6, so I don't have Reminders, although I could upgrade for not much more than the cost of Clear.

Essentially, the bulk of my tasks at work don't have very hard deadlines, it's more a matter of managing priorities and determining what to do next. I've found the color-based vertical organization very helpful - I move a task to the top of the list if it's a higher priority, and lower if it's a lower priority.

I use reminders for when I actually want to be reminded of something - and it works great. But most of the time I just need to keep an ongoing, dynamic list of what I have on my plate and this looks like the best way to do it. I've found that if I don't have a solution that integrates absolutely seamlessly into my workflow, I tend to not use it and just wing it off the top of my head. So I think it will be worth it to me, although I'd prefer the price to be closer to $9.99.
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Old Oct 31, 2012, 05:52 PM   #29
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Love the App on the iPhone and I really would love to have it on my mac, but 15$ is too steep for me.
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Old Oct 31, 2012, 06:13 PM   #30
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Looks nice, but like the others here I'm unwilling to shell out $15 for it.
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Old Oct 31, 2012, 06:33 PM   #31
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Originally Posted by JTToft View Post
- It looks nice and has fancy colours.
No, it looks like something from a 70's TV show intro.
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Old Oct 31, 2012, 08:08 PM   #32
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Originally Posted by Saladinos View Post
Not enough, by the looks of it.

I'm totally against the way these Mac apps totally rip their users off - as a developer myself, I know there is very little difference in creating an iOS or OSX app. In fact, in many respects it's easier on OSX because users don't hold the screen close to their faces to notice every little thing. The artwork on OSX is a similar or even lower resolution to that needed on iOS devices. Some things are a little more involved due to the less modern AppKit framework, but overall it doesn't justify the price.

Clear is even worse - the minimalist look means that it doesn't have lots of fancy artwork they need to pay designers to remake. It's just solid colours.

Clear on iOS was a nice concept app, but it was clearly built for the UI demo and not the function it supposedly is for (todos). It's a rudimentary todo manager at best. I know lots of people who were attracted by the video and bought it; none of them still use it.

I could go further - I don't think the hyper-gesture approach of Clear on iOS even makes sense on OSX. What am I supposed to do, drag an item with my mouse pointer to create a new one? How is that any easier or more intuitive than clicking a simple "+" button? The flaw with the (admittedly attractive) Clear UI concept is that it totally relies on direct manipulation. Once you're pointing at things indirectly by using a mouse cursor, I can tell it won't be nearly as fun.
You don't create new items by dragging your list down with your mouse. You simply type, and the item appears.

Or, you point in-between a couple items, start typing, and boom, it's there. (It's faster than a + button…)

Clear Mac isn't a surface level, lazy port like you claim it to be. We really approached the Mac as a unique platform. People use their Macs in tons of different ways! The app's design reflects and respects that.

The fact that the version of our app you just made up in your head sucks is kind of meaningless when you're imagining something entirely different (and yes, lamer).

I'm sorry I went off on a mini rant of my own, but we worked very hard on this, and you're kind of making stuff up.

Last edited by phillryu; Oct 31, 2012 at 08:21 PM.
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Old Oct 31, 2012, 09:52 PM   #33
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Originally Posted by phillryu View Post
You don't create new items by dragging your list down with your mouse. You simply type, and the item appears.

Or, you point in-between a couple items, start typing, and boom, it's there. (It's faster than a + button…)

Clear Mac isn't a surface level, lazy port like you claim it to be. We really approached the Mac as a unique platform. People use their Macs in tons of different ways! The app's design reflects and respects that.

The fact that the version of our app you just made up in your head sucks is kind of meaningless when you're imagining something entirely different (and yes, lamer).

I'm sorry I went off on a mini rant of my own, but we worked very hard on this, and you're kind of making stuff up.
I went too far with the gestures there - it's difficult to see how it works. Then again, you could argue that that's a design failure: I look at the app for the first time and I have no idea what to do. Since it looks essentially identical to the iOS app, my best guess is that it works like the iOS app. Now you're saying it works in a whole different (but equally impossible to see on first glance) way? I don't call that good design.

May I suggest that the "gestures" you just described actually sound worse than dragging with a mouse? Adding items is an explicit action, and it should have a different button. I can see lots of frustration as people try to edit items but end up creating new ones, or end up full of random items as they accidentally pressed a key while the window had focus. And what if my mouse cursor just happens to be inside the window already? Now my item appears in the middle of the list for no apparent reason!

If you use the keyboard like this, it creates a huge amount of uncertainty when people type when using the app. It means I need to think twice and look at the screen again before pressing a key, and then I need to make sure that what happens after I do is what I expected. Nothing's explicit.

This is what I mean about Clear being more of a UI demo than an app per se. It sounds all cool to just type, and you get a nice minimalistic UI without any buttons, so you think naturally that's got to be better right? For the reasons I just described, I don't think it is.

As far as I can see, you haven't approached the Mac as a unique platform: you've tried to make an iOS app run on OSX. The design looks horribly unintuitive to me - hidden controls and the like aren't even really acceptable on iOS, but they're at least forgivable because multi-touch manipulation encourages users to explore with their fingers.

A real Mac app would be comfortable leaving the ultra-minimalism behind in favour of a necessary minimum number of buttons or other clearly identifiable controls. People don't use Macs in ways that differ all that much (differences that matter, that is). However, there is an enormous difference in use styles between iOS and OSX. That's what you've totally not captured here.

Quote:
Clear Mac isn't a surface level, lazy port like you claim it to be. We really approached the Mac as a unique platform. People use their Macs in tons of different ways! The app's design reflects and respects that.
The Mac as a unique platform? Well of course it's a unique platform! iOS is also a unique platform. That doesn't explain the 650% price increase for the Mac version.

"people use their Macs in different ways"? How exactly do people use their Macs in such radically different ways that it requires major engineering efforts and a $15 price? Do people use them upside-down or something?

This statement you made essentially says nothing at all when trying to help me understand this price and the value proposition in it. Right now all I see is people going for the highest price they think they can sucker people in to paying. They probably got some ideas from Tweetbot and saw green.

Again, I'm sick of some developers claiming OSX development is like brain surgery or something, and trying to use this extra effort as some sort of pleading justification to buy the app despite an exorbitant price. No. Just no. I won't, and I hope others reading this will realise that they're being made fools of; don't buy overpriced Mac ports of iOS apps. It's rotting the ecosystem and it'll become the norm unless you take a stand with your wallets and set a personal price barrier.
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Old Nov 1, 2012, 12:30 AM   #34
wongulous
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Good design is good software.

Good software is worth good money.

Clear is good software.

But I'm sorry—$15 is the price for a suite, not a simplified unitasker that's a port of an iOS app.

This is worth $5 at best. You could stretch it to $15 if it synced with iCloud *and* reminders *and* came with an iCal replacement (mmm squares and Helvetica, bleh skeuomorphism)... but not just this.

Since I'm never going to pay $15 for a desktop to-do list app as a layman designer (not a get things done nerd), I'm actually going to migrate away from Clear on iOS now. And actively stop recommending it to anyone—and I personally had turned on about a dozen people to it thus far.

There are ripple effects to treating your customers like **** with pricing when you port your app. You could have rewarded the loyal users and the early adopters, even if just for launch week. Maybe you will, but from Nik's reply I doubt it.

Too bad!
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Old Nov 1, 2012, 01:15 AM   #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nikf View Post
Disclaimer: I work at Realmac Software, makers of Clear.

Thanks for your feedback, guys. It's interesting to hear your thoughts on the app and pricing. Pricing it is always tricky, and whilst some folks may think that pricing is something that is simply determined at the last moment, that's not the case with us. We gave the Clear pricing a **lot** of thought (and continue to do so). We think great apps are worth paying for, and we want to ensure that we can always continue to build apps that people want to use.

Thanks again, I hope you enjoy using Clear for Mac and iPhone w/iCloud when it launches next week.

—Nik

Nik Fletcher
Product Manager, Realmac Software
@nikf
I love the Clear app for iPhone. It's one of a select few 3rd-party apps with a dedicated space on my home screen. I'm someone who constantly makes lists to manage my time and tasks, and I've yet to find an app that allows me to make and manage basic lists as simply and effectively as Clear. There are apps that do more, but they don't do raw, simple lists as well as Clear, at least for my needs. I don't need it to be a calendar and I don't need it to remind me about things at certain times or places. Reminders and Calendar work just fine for that. I use clear for stupid-simple lists, and it really does work great. In fact, I would hate it if it got more complicated! The elegance of the user interface and the simplicity of the function is what makes it work.

That said, I'll be one of the people waiting for the (inevitable?) price drop or sale before purchasing Clear for Mac. I'd love to use it and I have no doubt that it will be great and well-designed. Unfortunately, the price disparity between this and countless other iOS and OS X apps really minimizes the appeal of purchasing the OS X version of a known iOS app.

I don't doubt that a lot of work goes into rethinking and redesigning and reprogramming apps to arrive at the best experience for Mac users. Not at all. And as I hope you can see, I certainly don't doubt the talent that Realmac employs. But I do doubt that you'll see more revenue from the Mac version charging as much as 15 times what many of us paid for the Clear app when originally released as you would charging an amount more consistent with the iOS version. Not only do you wind up with the same general issue of "sticker shock" that I firmly believe is plaguing the Mac App Store from taking off as well as the iOS app store, but you have to expect that many loyal users of the iOS version are going to be decidedly turned off when they see the price. Is it worth sacrificing built-in goodwill towards a product for higher profit margins, especially at launch? The current fans of the iOS version are the ones most likely to purchase the Mac version, and as you can see, the response to the pricing is cold, and I'd say that's being generous.

Anyways, even given the Mac platform's smaller user base, I'd venture to guess that far more people would take a chance on an app like Clear if priced in the $2.99-4.99 range. If it was $0.99, it'd be a no brainer if you ask me. When Clear for iOS was $0.99, I bought it without question, ended up loving it, and then literally bought it as a gift for numerous friends and family members because I thought it was that good. At that price, it wasn't worth my time trying to convince them to check it out and buy it and I knew certain people would really love it. But at $14.99 for the Mac version, while I can certainly believe that I'd love it, I don't believe that I need it, and it's really as simple as that.

Again, I hope you can tell that I'm a fan of what you guys have done, and I genuinely want you to be successful. If you think charging $14.99 will help you be successful, then I honestly hope you're right. I'm not convinced myself necessarily, but I appreciate your product enough to share my thoughts on the the Mac version's pricing, and I hope you feel that I've done so respectfully. Again, for your sake, I hope Clear for Mac is a huge success no matter how you price it. But until it's at a lower price point, I'll continue to do just fine with the iPhone version.

And to be clear, are people here being excessive with the criticism? Absolutely. It's not warranted and to suggest that this is some evil, greedy scheme is silly. You're proud of your product and you want to be rewarded for your work so you can keep making great products. It's a totally reasonable perspective. But that said, given what you've seen here, I do think it'd be worth your time to further evaluate your audience and how your pricing decisions might reflect back on your company. I only say that because unfortunately, there are a lot of people who make less than rational snap-decisions. This is also largely why the $0.99 price model with iOS works so well, as most people don't over-think a $0.99 or even $1.99 purchase if the app looks descent and useful. Those are the people that know Clear right now; that's your audience. So how do you think those people are going to respond to the $14.99 price of Clear for Mac? Right or wrong, justified or not, rational or not, it is what it is, and I think it's safe to say you have more to consider at this point.

In any event, thanks for reaching out and for the hard work that goes into creating great apps like Clear.

Last edited by AgentElliot007; Nov 1, 2012 at 01:20 AM.
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Old Nov 1, 2012, 01:40 AM   #36
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Originally Posted by Saladinos View Post
Again, I'm sick of some developers claiming OSX development is like brain surgery or something, and trying to use this extra effort as some sort of pleading justification to buy the app despite an exorbitant price. No. Just no. I won't, and I hope others reading this will realise that they're being made fools of; don't buy overpriced Mac ports of iOS apps. It's rotting the ecosystem and it'll become the norm unless you take a stand with your wallets and set a personal price barrier.
While I think you'd do well to wait and see what the Mac version of Clear is really all about before continuing to assume it'll work a certain way, I generally agree with your perspective on Mac software pricing. I wouldn't say it's "rotting the ecosystem" though, as I don't think many developers have been too terribly successful with this model. Hell, iPhoto, Facetime and iMovie are in the top 10 paid apps right now, and 7 of the 10 top paid apps are Apple apps. That should tell you a fair amount right there about how successful 3rd party apps on the Mac have been. Smaller user base and higher prices is just a bad combination, no doubt. With more Mac users everyday though and people used to the iOS App Store, I still think the Mac App Store has a chance of becoming far more successful and exciting than it is, but it's going to require developers letting go of legacy pricing standards and treating the Mac like just another device like the iPhone and iPad. It needs momentum if it's going to really get going, and that's just not going to happen until the prices come down to a point where users aren't required to second-guess purchases.
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Old Nov 1, 2012, 03:06 AM   #37
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$15 doesn't seem unreasonable for software one uses every single day, and uses often. If you're complaining about Clear at $15, have you priced out OmniFocus or Things? Things for iPhone, iPad, and iPhone will run you close to $80 total. Clear seems pretty darn cheap.

Personally, I use Things and love it. I've bought a few (too many) "to-do list" applications over the years but nothing has come along that bests Things in my opinion. The price put me off a bit at first. I was also gun shy after buying OmniFocus and wrestling with it for far too long. But the Things UI won me over and pretty soon I opened my wallet - and have never regretted it. It's one of my most used apps. I'm definitely getting my money's worth.

My issue with Clear is the UI. Everyone raves about it and yes, it's very attractive and innovative. But it's a bit too simple for me. I can't organize the way I can in Things. I'm sure I'll check out the Mac version, more out of curiosity than anything else, but I sincerely doubt that Clear for the Mac will offer any compelling reason to ditch Things.
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Old Nov 1, 2012, 05:50 AM   #38
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I also have the clear app on my home screen. I have tried so many free and cheap apps trying to find the one that fits my needs. Clear for iphone is just what I was looking for. The even admit in their advertising that their app is made for people that normally would have used their note app to make list.

I like the colors and the functions of the app. It's effective and simple to learn. I don't mind paying for software and have invested in many of the more expensive apps just to find them way to complex for my simple needs. Although I admit I'm not looking for OSX version at this time. My MacBook hardly sees the light of day anymore.
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Old Nov 1, 2012, 06:10 AM   #39
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Originally Posted by Saladinos View Post

I could go further - I don't think the hyper-gesture approach of Clear on iOS even makes sense on OSX. What am I supposed to do, drag an item with my mouse pointer to create a new one? How is that any easier or more intuitive than clicking a simple "+" button? The flaw with the (admittedly attractive) Clear UI concept is that it totally relies on direct manipulation. Once you're pointing at things indirectly by using a mouse cursor, I can tell it won't be nearly as fun.
Agree with above. Though you have a trackpad, the interface needs to work more differently than the iOS version.

I didn't want to pay $2 for the iOS version since it seemed to be a bit too simplistic, and $15 is a giant noon.

Put the prices down to $.69 and $2 respectively, and you might gain more sales.
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Old Nov 1, 2012, 08:35 AM   #40
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Originally Posted by AgentElliot007 View Post
In any event, thanks for reaching out and for the hard work that goes into creating great apps like Clear.
Really glad you like Clear for iPhone, but most importantly thanks for the incredibly in-depth reply - I really appreciate it! I'm not the only member of the team reading the feedback, and pricing remains a hot topic for debate here in the office too.

Cheers!

—Nik

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Old Nov 1, 2012, 09:45 AM   #41
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You don't have a clue . . .

Quote:
Originally Posted by Saladinos View Post
Not enough, by the looks of it.

I'm totally against the way these Mac apps totally rip their users off - as a developer myself,
</rant>
I'm going to stop you right there, because you sure don't sound like a fellow developer. If you were, you would empathize and understand that this stuff is HARD: that custom gesture recognition is difficult, that syncing data across multiple devices via the cloud is very complicated and requires very smart people, that minimalist, re-thought design is far more challenging than building a crowded, ugly interface.

So, when you have apps in the app store and can appreciate the amount of work involved, and realize that $17 for two apps is a fair price for high-quality software, then you can go on your little rant. Until then , shush.
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Old Nov 1, 2012, 10:05 AM   #42
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I haven't tried Clear yet, and at that price, probably won't.

I second the motion for 2DO… have been using it for about 2 years, on both iPhone and iPad, and it sure has evolved nicely! THey've kept it up to date, and growing the entire time. It used to synch perfectly using mobile me, and transitioned almost seamlessly to using iCloud instead. Never lost a beat.

I don't use it only for 'to do lists' or task managing. It fills in as a pretty good project management core as well. The way it handles projects and checklists is elegant, simple, and very functional.

It's a pretty amazing app all around. One of the less-lauded underdogs perhaps, but highly recommended. And you can't beat the price!

I didn't know there was a desktop version coming. Great news. Thank you for the tip!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Reach9 View Post
I bought Clear on iOS and while it had a nice minimalistic UI, it was just too simple to use.
The Reminders App replaced it easy.

I use 2Do for my task managing. And their Mac version is coming out soon.
It's really the best task manager in the market.
And i've bought and tried Things and Omnifocus too.
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Old Nov 1, 2012, 05:40 PM   #43
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I really like the iPhone version of this app. The sounds are actually very encouraging. My only gripe is it has no left handed mode. It would be nice if you could set the text to be aligned right so I could tap the left side of items and it wouldn't bring up the keyboard to edit.
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Old Nov 3, 2012, 06:20 PM   #44
Chip NoVaMac
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I would be tempted to buy Clear for the iPhone IF the desktop app was not so expensive - $15 is way too much to just be able to sync via iCloud to my desktop....
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Old Nov 5, 2012, 12:25 PM   #45
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Hi Guys

Just a quick update to let you know we’ve announced the introductory pricing for Clear for Mac:

http://realmacsoftware.com/blog/intr...oductory-price

—Nik
Product Manager, Realmac Software
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Old Nov 6, 2012, 07:29 PM   #46
Gala
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Originally Posted by lazyrighteye View Post
While I like the clean, minimal design/aesthetic (very nice work UI team), the app is so minimal I found myself needing a bit more function. I've not used it outside of the first week of experimentation.

That said, $15 is an absolute joke for the desktop version. Sure, iCloud sync is nifty. But $15 is a bit steep for a pretty to-do list app. I guess it all comes down to the adoption rate for which Clear is targeting. At $2 (iOS)/$15 (OS X), I don't see this taking off - which may be fine with them. At $2/$4 or better, FREE/$2... I suspect you'd see some significant adoption. I could be wrong. Would not be the first nor the last.

Now if there are updates to the app down the road, I may revisit. But as it stands now... I'm good.
I agree with you but what worries me is how can they add anything to it in upgrades? It is an app that people choose because of its simplicity & lack of date reminders etc. What I would love to see is Siri integration or since Siri makes reminders in Reminder.app have the ability to "pull" new reminders from it.

Last edited by Gala; Nov 6, 2012 at 07:39 PM.
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Old Nov 7, 2012, 05:22 PM   #47
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Originally Posted by nikf View Post
Hi Guys

Just a quick update to let you know we’ve announced the introductory pricing for Clear for Mac:

http://realmacsoftware.com/blog/intr...oductory-price

—Nik
Product Manager, Realmac Software
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@ $15 way to much, @ $6.99 as a launch day price - Instant Buy.
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Old Nov 7, 2012, 11:06 PM   #48
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"Clear" is now available in the U.S. Mac App Store.

Just bought it & I feel that this app is nice & works well.
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Old Nov 11, 2012, 09:27 PM   #49
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Originally Posted by nikf View Post
Hi Guys

Just a quick update to let you know we’ve announced the introductory pricing for Clear for Mac:

http://realmacsoftware.com/blog/intr...oductory-price

—Nik
Product Manager, Realmac Software
@nikf
Just got both apps. Don't mind paying if it's going to help develop more things later on. I still think you guys need to add Siri support similar to how Omnifocus & Things grab info from Reminder.app.

I think that the landscape view on the iPhone & a horizontal view on Mac (same gesture as rotating a photo in iPhoto) can give you guys HUGE flexibility & real estate for adding new features without altering the current experience. This functionality would be extremely slick on the iPad.
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Old Nov 12, 2012, 02:06 AM   #50
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