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Old Jun 29, 2013, 10:01 PM   #26
mccoy015
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I have an Apple TV 3 and a Roku 2 XS. Both are great little devices but the Apple TV is 100x more reliable. My roku needs rebooted at least once a week due to wifi issues or sluggish scrolling.
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Old Jun 30, 2013, 04:25 AM   #27
joshdammit
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Originally Posted by StinDaWg View Post
You can build a Windows pc for less than $200 that will do everything these boxes can and more. If you have some spare parts laying around, even better. That's the route I took and I'm completely satisfied. It can play anything and everything. I also use Firefox as a big screen web browser, both to watch videos and just browse the net.
Why do you nerds have such a hard time comprehending that the average family doesn't feel like going through all the geekery that you/we (I'm actually one of you guys, I have a similar setup in my house, although I do use the Apple TV as a middle man even though I don't need to) go through? Just because WE enjoy building computers (with "spare parts laying around," because we all know everybody has spare PC hardware laying around,) and hooking them to our tv, and then switching the input to the tv, and then sitting down on the couch with the mouse and keyboard and navigating through Windows and opening whatever files/websites they need and then putting the respective program/plugin into fullscreen mode?

"lol it isnt that hard" NOT the point. This is very simple to us. It's not to everybody, and to some, they just don't want to go through the hassle when a simple $99 box can streamline most of the entire process.

"but you can do more with a-" DOESN'T MATTER. These families aren't looking to build a $200 Windows "box," make room for it in the entertainment center ("LOL THEIR NOT EVEN THAT BIG! I MADE A REALLY SMALL ONE FOR-" that's nice,) and then show their kids how to point and click their way to the movies they want to watch. They just want something that plays Netflix and maybe whatever's in their computer's media library, as painlessly as possible.

"but all you gotta do is-" Stop, STOP. NO. You are not the voice of consumers, nor are you the voice of the industry if the direction lately is any indication. There's a reason everybody doesn't do it your way. And no, it's not because everybody is an idiot and you're a super-genius. It's because you're out of touch with reality.

Let them use their Roku or their Apple TV. The entire TV media hub industry isn't going to shrivel up and die because you think it's pointless.
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Old Jun 30, 2013, 11:40 PM   #28
StinDaWg
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Originally Posted by joshdammit View Post
Why do you nerds have such a hard time comprehending that the average family doesn't feel like going through all the geekery that you/we (I'm actually one of you guys, I have a similar setup in my house, although I do use the Apple TV as a middle man even though I don't need to) go through? Just because WE enjoy building computers (with "spare parts laying around," because we all know everybody has spare PC hardware laying around,) and hooking them to our tv, and then switching the input to the tv, and then sitting down on the couch with the mouse and keyboard and navigating through Windows and opening whatever files/websites they need and then putting the respective program/plugin into fullscreen mode?

"lol it isnt that hard" NOT the point. This is very simple to us. It's not to everybody, and to some, they just don't want to go through the hassle when a simple $99 box can streamline most of the entire process.

"but you can do more with a-" DOESN'T MATTER. These families aren't looking to build a $200 Windows "box," make room for it in the entertainment center ("LOL THEIR NOT EVEN THAT BIG! I MADE A REALLY SMALL ONE FOR-" that's nice,) and then show their kids how to point and click their way to the movies they want to watch. They just want something that plays Netflix and maybe whatever's in their computer's media library, as painlessly as possible.

"but all you gotta do is-" Stop, STOP. NO. You are not the voice of consumers, nor are you the voice of the industry if the direction lately is any indication. There's a reason everybody doesn't do it your way. And no, it's not because everybody is an idiot and you're a super-genius. It's because you're out of touch with reality.

Let them use their Roku or their Apple TV. The entire TV media hub industry isn't going to shrivel up and die because you think it's pointless.
I don't have kids, and I don't know where I implied that this is the only way to go, but I would certainly recommend it for anyone who can put in even an ounce of time to get a far superior product. I use a case that is about the size of a cable box, and basically looks like one too. I don't use a keyboard and mouse, I have a $25 backlit Lenovo HTPC remote that I am using to type this as I lay on the couch. I don't go opening folders and then "fullscreening them", I use XBMC which automatically organizes everything. I can give the remote to anyone, and they will have no problem navigating around or finding what they need. Sure, it takes a couple of hours to set everything up, but it's completely worth it. I would be so frustrated only using a Roku/ATV. The functionality is very limited. Just because it may sound intimidating to some doesn't mean they shouldn't at least look into it. Sure, I would never recommend this setup for my grandma, but she doesn't know how to use a smart phone either. You'd be surprised at how many "normal" people are just hooking up their laptops to their tv to do some of this stuff. Kids have iphones at 5 years old now. It's completely insane how fast technology is progressing, and I think you're underestimating the abilities of a lot people, especially the younger generation and those that will follow.








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Old Jul 1, 2013, 09:43 PM   #29
Toe
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Thumbs down

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Originally Posted by dgalvan123 View Post
This is exactly the same way it works with an Apple TV.

You have to enter the login and password info for Netflix (and YouTube, Hulu, etc.)on the Apple TV itself. You can't do the setup on your mac.
I find this to be astonishing news. This was really my biggest issue with the Roku. I was not able to set it up without accessing their website from my computer. From that point forward, why they *%$@ should I need to use the stupid four little arrows to type in complex passwords? And Apple does this too? I think I'm just not ready for these devices if they're that poorly conceived. (So I'm a perfectionist. That's why I use Macs in the first place.)

In fact, both devices have USB ports and both have ethernet ports. I shouldn't even need to enter my wifi password (which is very long, thank you) since there are obvious ways they could be made to connect directly to a device with a luxurious keyboard.

Steve Jobs had a reputation for impatience with stupid imperfections, especially in user interface. What, did he never set up his own ATV? Amazing.

I know it may sound hyper-critical, but it's just such a dumb oversight. Millions of people each waste a bunch of time and frustration trying to type with arrows because a development team couldn't spend a few days thinking through the obvious.

For now, I'll just stick with my stupid "smart" TV and my HDMI cable direct into my MBP. Maybe someday I'll calm down and put up with the ridiculous ritual of arrow-typing, but... just so frustrating. Why?

P.S. As for the AirPort being the problem; I don't think that was it. The way I did get it to work was some ridiculous hack I found on one blog (Roku website was beyond useless; just showed me a ultra-basic setup video) that got it to work. Rebooting AP didn't do anything. But the Roku made sure I had to type my complex wifi password again and again and again and again with the stupid little arrows. Sometimes wifi worked, sometimes it didn't. (And no, my wifi signal was no problem.)
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Last edited by Toe; Jul 1, 2013 at 09:51 PM. Reason: Added PS
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Old Jul 2, 2013, 01:12 PM   #30
waw74
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Originally Posted by Toe View Post
I find this to be astonishing news. This was really my biggest issue with the Roku. I was not able to set it up without accessing their website from my computer. From that point forward, why they *%$@ should I need to use the stupid four little arrows to type in complex passwords? And Apple does this too? I think I'm just not ready for these devices if they're that poorly conceived.
for roku, you have to set up an account in their channel store, after that, you can do everything on the roku itself.
for apple since they don't have a store, no need to set up an account.

talk to netflix, other channels like rdio will give you a code in the app, then you go to the rdio website on your computer and type in the code. no typing on the roku.

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Originally Posted by Toe View Post
(So I'm a perfectionist. That's why I use Macs in the first place.)


Quote:
Originally Posted by Toe View Post
In fact, both devices have USB ports and both have ethernet ports. I shouldn't even need to enter my wifi password (which is very long, thank you) since there are obvious ways they could be made to connect directly to a device with a luxurious keyboard.
no they don't.
the USB port on the aTV is a B version, so the kind you find on a peripheral not a computer.
in much the same way that you can't plug a keyboard into a hard drive, you can't plug a keyboard into the aTV.

both atv and roku have iOS apps that will let you use the keyboard on your iOS device.
atv will let you use an apple bluetooth keyboard.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Toe View Post
II know it may sound hyper-critical, but it's just such a dumb oversight. Millions of people each waste a bunch of time and frustration trying to type with arrows because a development team couldn't spend a few days thinking through the obvious.
i've had my first aTV2 for at least 2 years, i spent maybe 5 minutes (on the outside) typing in my passwords. so .00047 percent of the time i've owned it.

on roku, you don't need to type any thing with the remote.
plug it into etherent, and connect via the iOS app. after that you can even type the wireless password from the app, and then disconnect the wired connection.

aTV won't let you access wireless networks if it's hardwired.


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Originally Posted by Toe View Post
...complex passwords...
...my wifi password (which is very long, thank you) ...
...my complex wifi password...
http://www.smallnetbuilder.com/wirel...2-2012?start=4
even 7 characters can take more than 10 days to crack.
8 is more than sufficient for home use.
if you're that concerned about network security, turn off all wireless and go wired.
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Old Jul 2, 2013, 08:44 PM   #31
RoboWarriorSr
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Originally Posted by dgalvan123 View Post

This is exactly the same way it works with an Apple TV.

You have to enter the login and password info for Netflix (and YouTube, Hulu, etc.)on the Apple TV itself. You can't do the setup on your mac.

The best you can do when you set up a new Apple TV, is to set up HomeSharing (enter the HomeShare name and password on your Apple TV using the four arrows on the remote), and THEN you can use the Remote App on your iphone or iPad to enter all your subsequent passwords. Or, you could use a bluetooth keyboard, which I suppose is an advantage of Apple TV over Roku.
No if you set up with the remote app on an iPhone or iPad, you can use the keyboard which is a huge improvement. This can be done right after you connect the tv to your network with the stainless steel remote.
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Old Jul 3, 2013, 10:11 AM   #32
Scarpad
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Yeah my Roku 3 was up and running in about 5 min, putting in passwords for apps is just a necessity and not that hard. I use the Roku more than my Apple TV, mainly for Plex, MLB TV and AMAZON
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Old Jul 3, 2013, 05:01 PM   #33
dgalvan123
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No if you set up with the remote app on an iPhone or iPad, you can use the keyboard which is a huge improvement. This can be done right after you connect the tv to your network with the stainless steel remote.
Yeah. . . that's what I said.

Quote:
Originally Posted by dgalvan123
This is exactly the same way it works with an Apple TV.

You have to enter the login and password info for Netflix (and YouTube, Hulu, etc.)on the Apple TV itself. You can't do the setup on your mac.

The best you can do when you set up a new Apple TV, is to set up HomeSharing (enter the HomeShare name and password on your Apple TV using the four arrows on the remote), and THEN you can use the Remote App on your iphone or iPad to enter all your subsequent passwords. Or, you could use a bluetooth keyboard, which I suppose is an advantage of Apple TV over Roku.
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Old Jul 3, 2013, 05:02 PM   #34
RoboWarriorSr
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Yeah. . . that's what I said.
Quoted wrong guy sorry :/
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Old Jul 3, 2013, 05:52 PM   #35
enfanteribl
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Originally Posted by StinDaWg View Post
I don't have kids, and I don't know where I implied that this is the only way to go, but I would certainly recommend it for anyone who can put in even an ounce of time to get a far superior product. I use a case that is about the size of a cable box, and basically looks like one too. I don't use a keyboard and mouse, I have a $25 backlit Lenovo HTPC remote that I am using to type this as I lay on the couch. I don't go opening folders and then "fullscreening them", I use XBMC which automatically organizes everything. I can give the remote to anyone, and they will have no problem navigating around or finding what they need. Sure, it takes a couple of hours to set everything up, but it's completely worth it. I would be so frustrated only using a Roku/ATV. The functionality is very limited. Just because it may sound intimidating to some doesn't mean they shouldn't at least look into it. Sure, I would never recommend this setup for my grandma, but she doesn't know how to use a smart phone either. You'd be surprised at how many "normal" people are just hooking up their laptops to their tv to do some of this stuff. Kids have iphones at 5 years old now. It's completely insane how fast technology is progressing, and I think you're underestimating the abilities of a lot people, especially the younger generation and those that will follow.

Image

Image

Image

Image
That does look good. Are there ways of getting XMBC on ATV 3 yet?
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Old Jul 4, 2013, 12:48 PM   #36
Toe
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Originally Posted by waw74 View Post
for roku, you have to set up an account in their channel store, after that, you can do everything on the roku itself.
for apple since they don't have a store, no need to set up an account.
That's what I mean... what the heck are these companies thinking? Since the first thing Roku does is require you to use a computer, why can't they allow you to use that computer to set up channels?

Not that Apple is apparently better. Both companies seem to be really dropping the ball here.

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Originally Posted by waw74 View Post
no they don't.
the USB port on the aTV is a B version, so the kind you find on a peripheral not a computer.
in much the same way that you can't plug a keyboard into a hard drive, you can't plug a keyboard into the aTV.
I'm not suggesting one plug in a keyboard to either device... but rather that one directly connect the computer. No it's not possible on either, but it certainly could be and so it's a big oversight that it is not.

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Originally Posted by waw74 View Post
both atv and roku have iOS apps that will let you use the keyboard on your iOS device.
After you have set up wifi on the device and after you have gotten the app paired with the device. For whatever reason, I could get neither to work (as per my op; and btw, yes I did reboot everything in the chain; even my iPhone).

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Originally Posted by waw74 View Post
i've had my first aTV2 for at least 2 years, i spent maybe 5 minutes (on the outside) typing in my passwords. so .00047 percent of the time i've owned it.
I had the Roku on for about an hour and a half and I spent about an hour and a half trying to get it configured. Which involved thousands of clicks on those four stupid little arrows.

Mind you, at some point in that hour and a half, I had each part of the equation working. But never did I reliably have the full thing working. So 100% of the time I had it, it sucked.

Quote:
Originally Posted by waw74 View Post
on roku, you don't need to type any thing with the remote.
plug it into etherent, and connect via the iOS app. after that you can even type the wireless password from the app, and then disconnect the wired connection.
Yes, I tried that. The app connected to the Roku the first time I used it, then lost its connection. I got it back once, but then it kept failing. So I tried to manually enter the IP, and the app would not accept keyed input into the IP field. Period. I would press numbers, and they would not show in the app. Force-quit the app, reboot the iPhone... and still no. Not sure wtf happened there, but to me it looked like Roku had some lousy programmers. (And yes, of course my iPhone is up to date.)

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Originally Posted by waw74 View Post
aTV won't let you access wireless networks if it's hardwired.
Wow. That's incredibly stupid.

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Originally Posted by waw74 View Post
http://www.smallnetbuilder.com/wirel...2-2012?start=4
even 7 characters can take more than 10 days to crack.
8 is more than sufficient for home use.
That's some dangerous misinformation. It assumes the only kind of attack that ever occurs is brute-force. But with wifi hacking, the most common approach is to look for packet vulnerabilities and/or backdoors. Security is not about protecting from the known but also from the unknown. And a longer password is much, much safer than a short one for several different reasons.

I do agree that passwords don't have to be complex in terms of characterization (that is "zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz" is much safer than "1Gh8*i"), but it would be very misguided to think that 8 characters is great security.

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Originally Posted by waw74 View Post
if you're that concerned about network security, turn off all wireless and go wired.
I'll do you one better. If you want perfect security, turn off networking, unplug the computer's power supply, smash everything to pieces, grind the memory and hard drive to dust, then incinerate the whole thing. That is the only way to achieve (nearly) perfect computer security.

I use wifi because it is safe with the proper precautions and it affords a great deal more convenience and possibility.

And as far as being concerned about security, it's not a question of whether or not one should be concerned, but rather whether or not one understands enough to know why it is crucial to take good security measures. A wired network is by no means sufficient security if it is connected to the internet.
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Last edited by Toe; Jul 4, 2013 at 12:55 PM.
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Old Jul 5, 2013, 05:02 PM   #37
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1. you won't have 5.1 surround sound, may not be an issue for you.
.
Can someone explain this for me?
The specifications of the ATV say "Dolby 5.1 pass through"?
If I play a movie from my iMac with 5.1 sound, ATV will pass this to my amplifier?
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