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Old Apr 24, 2014, 02:34 AM   #126
antonis
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Yup, people constantly imply in these forums that the PC ecosystem consists of high-end machines in its vast majority, that have the latest and greatest GPUs running on top frames any AAA title came out yesterday. And that Macs fall behind all this.

Truth is, among all my colleagues and friends who own a PC, none of them upgrades during a 4-5 year period, and they just bear with what they already have, reducing the details/resolution of the new games they actually care to play, every year, ignoring the titles they don't care about.
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Old Apr 24, 2014, 06:17 AM   #127
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Yup, people constantly imply in these forums that the PC ecosystem consists of high-end machines in its vast majority, that have the latest and greatest GPUs running on top frames any AAA title came out yesterday. And that Macs fall behind all this.

Truth is, among all my colleagues and friends who own a PC, none of them upgrades during a 4-5 year period, and they just bear with what they already have, reducing the details/resolution of the new games they actually care to play, every year, ignoring the titles they don't care about.
Very true.

Even 4K gaming isn't out of reach if you just lower the graphics settings, and an AMD 7870XT can run BF4 at UHD with medium settings

http://s1056.photobucket.com/user/Hu...da99d.png.html

Not everyone "has" to max out every graphical setting to enjoy a game.

I've still got friends that are running 4:3 monitors and resolutions of 1280x1024, and playing all the games they want.
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Old Apr 24, 2014, 06:27 AM   #128
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Macs are OK for gaming. They are not good. For good, get a PC or a Console.
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Old Apr 24, 2014, 10:48 AM   #129
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Originally Posted by antonis View Post
Yup, people constantly imply in these forums that the PC ecosystem consists of high-end machines in its vast majority, that have the latest and greatest GPUs running on top frames any AAA title came out yesterday. And that Macs fall behind all this.

Truth is, among all my colleagues and friends who own a PC, none of them upgrades during a 4-5 year period, and they just bear with what they already have, reducing the details/resolution of the new games they actually care to play, every year, ignoring the titles they don't care about.
Not sure what your trying to argue here? Cause if you bought a mac or PC at the sametime for the same amount, the PC has better gaming potential.

If your wanting to buy a system, cause your a gamer, for the amount you will need to spend on a mac, you will get a much much better PC gaming system.

Btw your in the Mac Pro forum, people are asking how the new Mac Pro goes in gaming. It's quite decent to be honest , people though will tell you that for the money you need to spend on a Mac Pro with d700, a pair of 7970s, you will get a much better gaming system.

Fact is the new Mac Pro, out of the box is the best gaming system apple has ever produced. Compared to the high end PC systems, it's nothing special.
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Old Apr 24, 2014, 01:11 PM   #130
antonis
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Not sure what your trying to argue here? Cause if you bought a mac or PC at the sametime for the same amount, the PC has better gaming potential.

If your wanting to buy a system, cause your a gamer, for the amount you will need to spend on a mac, you will get a much much better PC gaming system.

Btw your in the Mac Pro forum, people are asking how the new Mac Pro goes in gaming. It's quite decent to be honest , people though will tell you that for the money you need to spend on a Mac Pro with d700, a pair of 7970s, you will get a much better gaming system.

Fact is the new Mac Pro, out of the box is the best gaming system apple has ever produced. Compared to the high end PC systems, it's nothing special.
Not arguing anything or disagreeing on anything. As far as value for money ratio is concerned (strictly within the gaming context) PC is most preferable.

I'm just stating that anyone who reads these forums without having the slightest idea about PC and Macs, will be led to a false impression that PC world is full of high-end machines and their users are constantly upgrading them keeping their machines in top of the line, while Macs constantly fall behind because of lack of upgradability. Anyone who reads these forums for some time can see such suggestions popping every other thread.

Regardless the fact that when nMP was released, 3dmark placed it in top 7% of the high-end machines registered. Now, if you also consider the obvious assumption that most low-end PC users will not even bother to register their results in 3dmark's database, you get a much more realistic picture than most of the threads here will try to imply.
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Old Apr 24, 2014, 01:11 PM   #131
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Originally Posted by N19h7m4r3 View Post
Very true.

Even 4K gaming isn't out of reach if you just lower the graphics settings, and an AMD 7870XT can run BF4 at UHD with medium settings

http://s1056.photobucket.com/user/Hu...da99d.png.html

Not everyone "has" to max out every graphical setting to enjoy a game.

I've still got friends that are running 4:3 monitors and resolutions of 1280x1024, and playing all the games they want.
I also ran BF4 on a single D300 (xFire disabled for testing) @2560x1600 (45-60fps) with most settings to "High" and Texture / Mesh Quality = Ultra; AntiAliasing Deferred = Off; AntiAliasing Post = Low; Ambient Occlusion = Off

You might notice a difference when you pause the game and stare at it for a minute. I don't recall if that was stock speed or over-clocked.
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Old Apr 24, 2014, 01:26 PM   #132
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I also ran BF4 on a single D300 (xFire disabled for testing) @2560x1600 (45-60fps) with most settings to "High" and Texture / Mesh Quality = Ultra; AntiAliasing Deferred = Off; AntiAliasing Post = Low; Ambient Occlusion = Off

You might notice a difference when you pause the game and stare at it for a minute. I don't recall if that was stock speed or over-clocked.
Yup, if you're in constant motion you don't notice the lack of AA much, and at higher resolutions it's less needed for FPS games.

I'm long past the point of having to max out every little thing just to try and enjoy a game.
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Old Apr 24, 2014, 01:32 PM   #133
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It depends which games you are playing. If you are expecting to play a demanding FPS at 1440p with all the settings turned to maximum then no Mac is going to cut it - this is gaming PC territory. If your needs are more conservative then an iMac with the GTX 780M will probably do it, but check the benchmarks before you take the plunge.
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Old Apr 24, 2014, 01:46 PM   #134
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Originally Posted by antonis View Post
Not arguing anything or disagreeing on anything. As far as value for money ratio is concerned (strictly within the gaming context) PC is most preferable.

I'm just stating that anyone who reads these forums without having the slightest idea about PC and Macs, will be led to a false impression that PC world is full of high-end machines and their users are constantly upgrading them keeping their machines in top of the line, while Macs constantly fall behind because of lack of upgradability. Anyone who reads these forums for some time can see such suggestions popping every other thread.

Regardless the fact that when nMP was released, 3dmark placed it in top 7% of the high-end machines registered. Now, if you also consider the obvious assumption that most low-end PC users will not even bother to register their results in 3dmark's database, you get a much more realistic picture than most of the threads here will try to imply.
Lets do a quick compare. Just fired up my 12 month old gaming PC

3D Mark

I just ran Firestrike 1.1 15.6K, top 1% of systems.

What do you get for that ?

How much was you mac pro?

Look the mac pro is a very expansive gaming solution that just runs 7970 crossfire.

Top 7% for a dual card system is not that good frankly, I know as my system is in the top 1% and its far from the top end you can get today.
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Old Apr 24, 2014, 10:57 PM   #135
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Lets do a quick compare. Just fired up my 12 month old gaming PC

3D Mark

I just ran Firestrike 1.1 15.6K, top 1% of systems.

What do you get for that ?

How much was you mac pro?

Look the mac pro is a very expansive gaming solution that just runs 7970 crossfire.

Top 7% for a dual card system is not that good frankly, I know as my system is in the top 1% and its far from the top end you can get today.
And how close to the average PC out there is yours ? Not even close.

Again, I'm not arguing about price/fps ratio for a potential buyer of a Mac/PC. I'm not even comparing anything here. Just highlighting the false impression these forums tend to create, that the vast majority of PCs are high-end gaming beasts, while all Macs struggle.

And you don't even have to take my word for it, just look at the post above yours.

Last edited by antonis; Apr 24, 2014 at 11:16 PM.
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Old Apr 25, 2014, 04:56 AM   #136
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And how close to the average PC out there is yours ? Not even close.

Again, I'm not arguing about price/fps ratio for a potential buyer of a Mac/PC. I'm not even comparing anything here. Just highlighting the false impression these forums tend to create, that the vast majority of PCs are high-end gaming beasts, while all Macs struggle.

And you don't even have to take my word for it, just look at the post above yours.
Yes but you must set a base line somewhere. Surly that is price.

There are no crap macs, macs are some of the best quality PCs you can buy.

My point is I have a gaming PC that I spend the same as a base Mac Pro. The Mac Pro as you pointed out sits In the top 7% of High end gaming systems! mine in the top 1%. Given the same baseline, both high end systems, mine is far superior in gaming, the Mac Pro is superior to my PC in other maters.

Saying that most PCs out there are not high end, is kinda void as people looking for advice on here want to spent x amount, be it a mac or PC, so therefore we need to look at systems at that price point. Mac are highend systems, therefore compare them to equivalent PCs.

A far bigger problem that these forums produce is the impressions of how good macs are at gaming. So basically users on here choose to ignore high end PC gaming systems and claim how great thier mac pros or MacBook pros are at gaming. Just because you have not gamed at max setting at high FPS , and game at medium settings.....that is not where the bar is. The bar is gaming at max, and the hardware will limit how close you can get to it.

At the end if the day, someone with x amount to spend needs to be informed that a mac is a great system with decent gaming potential, as long as you are not looking for a system mainly for gaming.
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Old Apr 25, 2014, 05:50 AM   #137
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Macs hardware wise are decent for gaming in general. I still game on my old 2008 Mac Pro but I use a PC 5870. The new Mac Pro and old Mac Pros have never been good value relative to PCs in regards to gaming.

IMO, OSX is the main issue, I don't game in OSX at all these days.
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Old Apr 25, 2014, 06:45 AM   #138
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Yes but you must set a base line somewhere. Surly that is price.

There are no crap macs, macs are some of the best quality PCs you can buy.

My point is I have a gaming PC that I spend the same as a base Mac Pro. The Mac Pro as you pointed out sits In the top 7% of High end gaming systems! mine in the top 1%. Given the same baseline, both high end systems, mine is far superior in gaming, the Mac Pro is superior to my PC in other maters.

Saying that most PCs out there are not high end, is kinda void as people looking for advice on here want to spent x amount, be it a mac or PC, so therefore we need to look at systems at that price point. Mac are highend systems, therefore compare them to equivalent PCs.

A far bigger problem that these forums produce is the impressions of how good macs are at gaming. So basically users on here choose to ignore high end PC gaming systems and claim how great thier mac pros or MacBook pros are at gaming. Just because you have not gamed at max setting at high FPS , and game at medium settings.....that is not where the bar is. The bar is gaming at max, and the hardware will limit how close you can get to it.

At the end if the day, someone with x amount to spend needs to be informed that a mac is a great system with decent gaming potential, as long as you are not looking for a system mainly for gaming.
Absolutely, that's a valid point of view. Potential buyer should be aware of the above, as it stands true.

I just point out a different side of the story, consisting of generalizations about the existing user-base (or ecosystem if you prefer), of people that keep insisting on rendering Macs a lost case in gaming. Yesterday, I've sold my 2010 iMac 27" with ATI 5750 gpu. Although "old" for my tastes, it's still better in everything (including gaming, especially in windows) than most of my friends' PCs.

So, to sum it up:
- You say "if you want to get a new gaming rig, get a PC", which I agree
- I also say, "Mac gaming is in its best era and it only gets better year by year, and totally viable at the moment"
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Old Apr 25, 2014, 07:01 AM   #139
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This might reflect more on my opinion for modern games (or just that I'm an old fart), but IMHO, the question should be: "Are current games good for Gaming?"

RGDS,
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Old Apr 25, 2014, 07:53 AM   #140
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This might reflect more on my opinion for modern games (or just that I'm an old fart), but IMHO, the question should be: "Are current games good for Gaming?"

RGDS,
Answer: "Only a few of them."

Question #2: "Are current gamers good for Gaming?"
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Old Apr 25, 2014, 08:34 AM   #141
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Absolutely, that's a valid point of view. Potential buyer should be aware of the above, as it stands true.

I just point out a different side of the story, consisting of generalizations about the existing user-base (or ecosystem if you prefer), of people that keep insisting on rendering Macs a lost case in gaming. Yesterday, I've sold my 2010 iMac 27" with ATI 5750 gpu. Although "old" for my tastes, it's still better in everything (including gaming, especially in windows) than most of my friends' PCs.

So, to sum it up:
- You say "if you want to get a new gaming rig, get a PC", which I agree
- I also say, "Mac gaming is in its best era and it only gets better year by year, and totally viable at the moment"
Your summary is correct.

While previously I would have considered Mac Gaming to be sub par, between the iMac and new Mac Pro, its the strongest its ever been.

The new Mac pro with dual 7970s is a huge step ahead of the previous gen, unless you were prepared to tinker. The new Mac Pro, for the first time brings a high end gaming system to the mac side. If you must have a Mac and want to game as a secondary function, best year for you!
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