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Old May 20, 2013, 07:12 AM   #276
krye
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Here guys, let me fix that for you:

halfTime = songDuration/2;

if ((skipped = true) && (playDuration > halfTime)) {
payRoyalty();
} else {
noPayRoyalty;
}
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Old May 20, 2013, 07:23 AM   #277
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Renzatic View Post
As of last year, Spotify had 20 million users subscribing to the free account, and 6 million paying. Things have only gotten better for them since.

If Apple's music service is another internet radio attempt, they might eventually overtake Pandora, but they'll barely put a dent into Spotify.
And most of them are iOS users. If Apple launches a service that does that poorly, it will be an embarrassment.
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Old May 20, 2013, 07:37 AM   #278
lars666
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Quote:
Originally Posted by iGrip View Post
It seems likely that royalties are due whenever the song, or any portion of the song, gets played. Otherwise, what happens when a portion of a song is used during an advertisement, or in a movie, or wherever?

If that is true, then Sony owes third parties whenever somebody plays a portion of the song on streaming radio, and it is reasonable for them to require Apple to pay.
It's true about having to pay royalties when you use a song in a movie or commercial, even if it isn't played in its whole, of course. However, if your logic was universal, Apple also would have to pay money to Sony etc. every time I listen to the sound snippets in the iTunes store ... The difference is that it completely fulfills its purpose as a snipped in the movie, advertisement etc. and therefore needs to be payed. However, if somebody skips a song in iRadio within the first seconds, the user really gained no use out of it.
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Old May 20, 2013, 08:15 AM   #279
Shaun, UK
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iRadio will flop just like Ping because it's simply another half hearted attempt to shore up their ailing business model.

Either do a proper streaming service like Spotify or start selling lossless tracks.
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Old May 20, 2013, 09:00 AM   #280
GoldenJoe
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It's strange how everyone has moved to the streaming format for listening to music. Sure, it's nice for discovery, but for everything else, an mp3/aac is superior. Is it really too much effort?
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Old May 20, 2013, 09:28 AM   #281
bpcookson
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Oh, to have endless numbered skips...
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Old May 20, 2013, 09:41 AM   #282
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 4TheLoveOfTech View Post
Google's New Music Radio feature has unlimited skips or you can even look at upcoming playlist in radio and swipe songs away you don't want to listen to.

If Google was able to license it I would seriously doubt this is what is holding off Apple signing a deal.
As has already been pointed out, Google's service is a paid one, Apple's looks like it will probably be free. The two have very different terms for the record labels.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sound214 View Post
The Radio feature of Spotify free has a skip limit of 5, while the "listen to any song you want" feature doesn't.
That's what I said.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sound214 View Post
I really don't see why anyone would want to use Pandora when there's Spotify.
Using a free version of Spotify on a mobile device, what's the advantage of Spotify?


Quote:
Originally Posted by iChrist View Post
So what if Apple's iRadio lets you skip or rewind, with Spotify you can make playlists out of virtually any song made, and play and stream them AT WILL.
But that's only with the paid version, right? At least on a mobile device. And others have pointed out that there's no free version for iOS devices, is that right?

Quote:
Originally Posted by The Phazer View Post
Apple's service will be free?
That's what the rumors keep saying. If it wasn't free, they wouldn't be talking about revenue from ads.
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Old May 20, 2013, 09:44 AM   #283
gnasher729
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cisco1138 View Post
In the current iTunes Store, I can play a few seconds of a song and then jump forward to a few seconds of the next song, all day long!
So with iRadio, the plan is to force me to listen to entire songs for free, and not allow me to just play short clips, where is the logic in that?

I think i'll stick with rdio...
That's not the plan. Apple's plan is that you can skip songs as much as you like. Sony's plan is that you can skip songs as much as you like, but Apple pays for the full song even if you skipped after five seconds. Apple's plan is that they pay for the full song if you listen to the full song, but that they don't pay for the full song if you skip after five songs.

Not allowing you to skip songs is stupid. Apple paying for a full song when you skip after five seconds is also stupid. Sony not agreeing and being the only one left out from the deal _without getting any money_ is also stupid.
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Old May 20, 2013, 09:49 AM   #284
samcraig
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gnasher729 View Post
That's not the plan. Apple's plan is that you can skip songs as much as you like. Sony's plan is that you can skip songs as much as you like, but Apple pays for the full song even if you skipped after five seconds. Apple's plan is that they pay for the full song if you listen to the full song, but that they don't pay for the full song if you skip after five songs.

Not allowing you to skip songs is stupid. Apple paying for a full song when you skip after five seconds is also stupid. Sony not agreeing and being the only one left out from the deal _without getting any money_ is also stupid.
You don't really KNOW what the entire plan is. Do you?

Also - I don't believe the other labels have agreed to what YOU are suggesting. It's about costs (how much) not whether Apple should pay for 5 seconds vs a full song.

----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by milo View Post

That's what the rumors keep saying. If it wasn't free, they wouldn't be talking about revenue from ads.
Rumors are just that - rumors. And there's nothing saying Apple won't offer a free service supported by ads and a paid subscription without ads.

We don't know. Everything is conjecture.
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Old May 20, 2013, 01:13 PM   #285
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Originally Posted by Walter White View Post
When it goes belly up you are left with nothing.
Sure, I can then subscribe to another music service and pay monthly, or just listen to radio or whatever.

The downside of having physical records like CD, VHS, DVD, Casette, Vinyl, you-name-it, is that you need to also have the player. And the cables. And the space for the records. And every time you move you need to haul it with you. And everytime you clean you need to at least swipe the dusts or organize or whatever.

Now that I am subscribed to Netflix I have about 100-200 DVDs taking space in my closets and it's hard to get any money for them since their prices have collapsed just like VHS before and Blu-ray will one day.

Your fooling yourself if you think that optical discs make sense as an investment.
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Old May 20, 2013, 01:23 PM   #286
brudy
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Originally Posted by Small White Car View Post
The problem is that this would destroy the iTunes download business. Would those $15 fees make up for that? I doubt it.

A Pandora-like-format would put a dent in downloads, sure, but it would allow the downloading business to survive in some form alongside iRadio.
Well, would Apple like my $15 or do they want me to keep giving it to Spotify? Either way I'm buying less through iTunes and have ZERO interest in a Pandora-like service. I don't even want to leave spotify, except that their software development has gone off the rails in the last few months. Their client is turning into a flaming piece of crap.
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Old May 20, 2013, 01:49 PM   #287
lolkthxbai
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Originally Posted by lars666 View Post
The solution with not paying a song which only was heard a few seconds before skipped would be a perfect one for the customer AND the company, I think.
I think so too, but seeing how Sony won't agree to Apple's terms, it might not happen and want full price for even a second the song is played.
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Old May 21, 2013, 05:09 PM   #288
FrozenDarkness
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Originally Posted by iChrist View Post
Wow, your iTunes history, what a game changer!

Look kid, buying songs for $1.30 a pop is a suckers game. Unless you are buying only a few songs a month and never get sick of them, you are better off subscribing to something like Spotify. Even FREE spotify lets you do the same on your computer.

Based on how successful Ping and iTunes genius are at selecting songs... I suspect the radio stations produced by iRadio will be disappointing. The only benefit to the consumer is you get to easily buy what you are listening to from iTunes... which is not a benefit at all.

Apple is sacrificing their radio product to save their archaic business model in iTunes.

there will ALWAYS be a business model for owning music, buying music off itunes won't be going anywhere soon.

Apple's business model for iRadio will be targed at those people. They'll tack on a music discovery service for you to find music you like easier. It's as simple as that, it's targeted for different users. Until iRadio comes out, none of us truly know how like or unlike pandora it is.

also, free spotify is a joke, everybody WANTS to listens to music more or less from their phones as well. A system that's only free on your computer isn't useful at all.

Also, while Ping was a joke, iTunes Genius and iTunes Match were great ideas that after iteration have become dependable products.

and nobody has the music selection of iTunes. not google, not spotify. especially if you're into foreign music.

----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by brudy View Post
Well, would Apple like my $15 or do they want me to keep giving it to Spotify? Either way I'm buying less through iTunes and have ZERO interest in a Pandora-like service. I don't even want to leave spotify, except that their software development has gone off the rails in the last few months. Their client is turning into a flaming piece of crap.
apple has never given much thought to people who want to go off to other services. all they care about is having the most integrated and best experience for people who buy their hardware. a free radio service is just that. it's free, it's not like you'll delete it, you'll most likely give it a try because you're curious. well maybe not you, most people will and if apple can nail that experience, than they got what they wanted.

Last edited by HexMonkey; May 21, 2013 at 10:03 PM. Reason: Personal attacks
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Old May 21, 2013, 05:32 PM   #289
tarasis
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Originally Posted by ani4ani View Post
Sony represents the artists, so why shouldn't they want to protect their rights. If you read the article, Spotify pay a full license fee for skipped tracks, so would it be reasonable or fair for Apple to get an advantage? Or is it reasonable, just because it is Apple, that they think they should by default get what they want?
Equally why should they be paid at all when I chose not to listen to a song? (Not do I think it's okay that Spotify pay it either) I haven't benefitted from the song, so why do they or the artist deserve money?
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Old May 22, 2013, 10:16 AM   #290
ajvizzgamer101
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Originally Posted by Parasprite View Post
I doubt the average person would go for it then. It would have to offer something better than what is offered to justify an added bill.

Then again, I now pay ~$96 a year for Netflix, whereas before I didn't even have cable or a TV, and payed less than that on DVDs/iTunes TV shows each year so maybe not...
$40 for an X number of songs or $180 for unlimited.
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Old May 22, 2013, 02:16 PM   #291
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Originally Posted by tarasis View Post
Equally why should they be paid at all when I chose not to listen to a song? (Not do I think it's okay that Spotify pay it either) I haven't benefitted from the song, so why do they or the artist deserve money?
It would seem to me logically that the first 30 seconds per song would be closer to royalty-free or some sort of reduced (possibly up front) cost paid to allow previewing songs (think iTunes Store).

Disclaimer: I actually have no idea what Apple pays to be allowed to stream 30/60 second previews.
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Old May 25, 2013, 10:11 AM   #292
Oberhorst
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Originally Posted by PinkyMacGodess View Post
And I am proud of myself that I did not know that...
But now you do, haha!
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Old May 25, 2013, 08:01 PM   #293
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Originally Posted by Oberhorst View Post
But now you do, haha!
I guess I do now...
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Old May 27, 2013, 11:31 AM   #294
skinned66
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Sony and Warner have no acts I'd ever pay for, so they can go jump in the lake for all I care.

But I will say...stuff like this tends to lead people to piracy justification.
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