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Old Apr 14, 2013, 11:32 AM   #51
macalec
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I am really not a fan of Real racing 3. I don't like the free model. I would rather pay 4.99 for something with no ads vs free with ads.


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Old Apr 14, 2013, 10:54 PM   #52
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Originally Posted by xdhd350 View Post
I have to laugh at all of you gotta have it now mentality types. Real life doesn't work that way. So maybe the 'real' part of Real Racing 3 is you gotta wait until you EARN the money from racing to improve your car or buy new ones.

When you take your REAL car in for service, how long does it take? Yeah, I thought so.

Get over it. The game rocks and I haven't spent a single cent, but then again, I have the patience to race other cars or do something else, like read Mac Rumors while I wait.

The said part about all the game hackers is that I bet they don't like to work for free, but they think game developers and other media creators should.
Are you saying that, if I bring in my car for a clutch replacement, the repair can be finished immediately if I give the mechanic some 'gold'? Do I need a special currency ('gold') in order to buy some vehicles? Does a set of new tires for a real Lamborghini only cost $1200? Does a damaged taillight on a BMW only cost $40 to repair and new mirrors only $25?

Please. It's a video game. To say 'they put the waiting time there in order to make it more realistic' is completely ridiculous.
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Old Apr 15, 2013, 12:51 AM   #53
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Does a damaged taillight on a BMW only cost $40 to repair and new mirrors only $25?
Shoot, if only the taillights and mirrors really did cost $40 and $25 to repair or replace on my BMW
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Old Apr 15, 2013, 04:32 AM   #54
TheMacBookPro
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Shoot, if only the taillights and mirrors really did cost $40 and $25 to repair or replace on my BMW
You wish! I wanted to replace my Panamera's mirrors with the Euro-spec aspherical type- was quoted $575

But hey, at least I don't have to pay 'gold' to get them installed!
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Old Apr 15, 2013, 05:17 AM   #55
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Any word on how it handles merging two devices saves? I've played a fair bit on my phone and then I played on the iPad even though I had to start from scratch as I just liked playing 'big screen'.

So if I update both, will it add up all my funds and cars, or use one of the versions as its 'base' version & make them both the saem that way?
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Old Apr 15, 2013, 06:33 AM   #56
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Any word on how it handles merging two devices saves? I've played a fair bit on my phone and then I played on the iPad even though I had to start from scratch as I just liked playing 'big screen'.

So if I update both, will it add up all my funds and cars, or use one of the versions as its 'base' version & make them both the saem that way?
It won't merge I believe. You'll have to pick which one you wish to save.
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Old Apr 15, 2013, 09:32 AM   #57
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Originally Posted by TheMacBookPro View Post
Are you saying that, if I bring in my car for a clutch replacement, the repair can be finished immediately if I give the mechanic some 'gold'? Do I need a special currency ('gold') in order to buy some vehicles? Does a set of new tires for a real Lamborghini only cost $1200? Does a damaged taillight on a BMW only cost $40 to repair and new mirrors only $25?

Please. It's a video game. To say 'they put the waiting time there in order to make it more realistic' is completely ridiculous.
No, not saying that. For the most part, I was saying that in real life, you have to wait for things to get done. You have to earn enough to buy what you need or want. And in some cases, if you have extra money to throw around, you can get stuff done faster via bribery.

They originally put waiting tines on the damage repairs but decided later to make those things immediate.

Trust me, I get the freemium business model and I see things happen in the game that I know are meant to get me couching up real cash. I just feel that many of the complaints are over done and that if you have patience, there is a lot of enjoyment to be had from RR3 without spending a single penny on it.They are in business to make money and if nobody pays, there won't be in business for long and certainly won't be able to put out software of this caliber. In that thought, I'm inclined to give EA a few dollars in return for the enjoyment I get from their game.
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Old Apr 15, 2013, 09:57 AM   #58
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Who wants games to be completely like real life? This arguments seems a bit like a rationalization. I do club racing in real life at a local track, and I'm a racing game fan, and have played some of the best, most realistic racing games and simulators on PC and consoles. Not one of them ever thought fit to build in wait times while your car is repaired. There's just no reason why most players would think it's fun to simulate this particular aspect of reality. It doesn't make any more sense than simulating bathroom breaks. I think it's clear to anyone who looks at this objectively, whether or not you have anything against RR3's freemium model, that the only reason this feature was added to RR3 is as a way to nag players to make in-app purchases.



I agree that the racing in this game is great, definitely the best on iOS so far. I also agree with you in finding it annoying to see how many people seem to feel entitled to get the game for free. However I think the Freemium pay model has caused the makers to make the game a bit more annoying than other racing games, including previous RR versions. That's my main objection, not the fact that they charge at all.

I'm obsessive enough about learning tracks well that I tend to want repeat a race until I can get first. A side effect of that is that I naturally end up earning enough gold and money that I don't have to wait often anyway, and if I do run out of gold I don't mind paying some real money to avoid waiting.

The real problem I have is that they've removed features and options that every other race simulator I've used has, clearly just to support their pay model. For example any other race simulator I've used which simulates damage, also gives you the option of turning off damage, at least when you're playing in offline mode. Players who only want hard-core realistic simulation don't ever have to turn off damage, and players who sometimes would like to practice without damage simulation can turn it off when they want. There's really no downside to offering the option of turning off damage... unless the game's pay model is based on charging players for virtual repairs.

Another example: If I interrupt and restart a race, say because I got interrupted and made a big mistake, whatever damage has happened so far still counts even though I'm restarting. No other racing game I've played, even the most realistic PC simulator, works this way. This is another feature whose purpose is clearly to steer you toward buying gold coins rather than making the game fun.

Other features (or missing features) that I suspect are motivated by the pay model:
  • No hot lapping
  • No custom quick races that don't affect career mode.

So that's my basic problem with freemium as opposed to pay-up-front -- it changes the incentive of the game maker. With a pay-up-front model, the game maker is motivated to try to find the best balance between being challenging and fun to make the game as enjoyable as possible. With a freemium model like RR3's, the incentive is instead to design the game to nudge players into making lots of little payments. Of course they still have to make the game enjoyable, but it is a different balance, and I don't like the results so far. I really hope the Freemium model doesn't catch on too much.
Thanks for making a well thought out reply. You made some very valid points and I see things in the game that are obviously meant to create damage so you'll pay more in game currency, such as cars waiting until you're along side and then the bots try to bang your car to mess it up. Sometimes the cup races feel more like a demolition derby than anything else.

The only thing I'll say about the freemium model is that it allows you to play without locking you into a purchase you may regret if the game or app turns out to be overpriced junk. I've had that happen too and this model at least lets me decide how much the game is worth, though I have done quite a bit so far without spending any money. I don't think it will be realistically possible to get into the really high end cars without forking over some real cash. So, at this point, I really can't feel ripped off because I haven't had to pay real money to enjoy the game.

Frankly, I prefer this method over cripple ware or ad ware. The few ads that did show up allowed me to watch a short video IF I chose to in order to get a few gold pieces for my time.

I had RR HD and found it to be unplayable for the most part, but I did like the ability to run practice laps which doesn't appear in RR3.
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Old Apr 15, 2013, 11:27 AM   #59
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Originally Posted by xdhd350 View Post
Thanks for making a well thought out reply. You made some very valid points and I see things in the game that are obviously meant to create damage so you'll pay more in game currency, such as cars waiting until you're along side and then the bots try to bang your car to mess it up. Sometimes the cup races feel more like a demolition derby than anything else.

The only thing I'll say about the freemium model is that it allows you to play without locking you into a purchase you may regret if the game or app turns out to be overpriced junk. I've had that happen too and this model at least lets me decide how much the game is worth, though I have done quite a bit so far without spending any money. I don't think it will be realistically possible to get into the really high end cars without forking over some real cash. So, at this point, I really can't feel ripped off because I haven't had to pay real money to enjoy the game.

Frankly, I prefer this method over cripple ware or ad ware. The few ads that did show up allowed me to watch a short video IF I chose to in order to get a few gold pieces for my time.
I hear you about getting to try a game before buying, though that can be solved in other ways than the freemium model. Offer a free demo for example. Or even offer exactly what the current game offers, but with an additional in-app purchase option for $15 or $20 to permanently remove the repair timer feature and unlock any other features that they might choose to withhold. They can still leave the current freemium model in place for those who would rather not pay any large amount up front. However if a lot of people end up buying the gold coin packages, it may be the case that the freemium model makes EA more money than what I'm wishing for, in which case they're obviously going to stick with what they're doing.

Ultimately it's not a huge deal to me. The racing itself is awesome, better than I would have thought possible on a tablet. And I'm not likely to spend huge amounts of time in the game anyway, since at home if I want my virtual racing fix I would rather get out my Fanatec wheel and pedals and play Forza 4 or F1 2011 or Race 07. I'm just more generally worried that Freemium might start creeping into other games, so that every game I want to play starts being designed to try to "nickel and dime" me instead of just trying to be fun. I'd be especially bummed if freemium moves beyond mobile games and into console or PC games.

Quote:
I had RR HD and found it to be unplayable for the most part, but I did like the ability to run practice laps which doesn't appear in RR3.
I agree, RR1 HD was pretty cartoony. RR2 HD was pretty great though, for a tablet racing game. RR3 definitely ups the game significantly as far as graphics and physics simulation, and having real tracks is awesome. However it also removes nice features and adds in annoyances that weren't in RR2, and as far as I can tell, all of the negative changes are motivated by the new pay model as opposed to trying to make the game more fun. Another poster earlier in this thread made a good point though, that this game is approaching console quality, and must have cost a lot to make, including licensing costs for using real tracks and cars. However iOS users are accustomed to paying $10 or less for games, so maybe this is the only way a high quality game like this can hope to make enough money on a mobile platform. It's amazing how many reviews you see in the app store complaining bitterly about having spent $2 on a game that wasn't quite as cool or as long as they hoped. People's idea of what games should cost have been completely recalibrated for mobile platforms.

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Old Apr 15, 2013, 02:17 PM   #60
TheMacBookPro
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No, not saying that. For the most part, I was saying that in real life, you have to wait for things to get done. You have to earn enough to buy what you need or want. And in some cases, if you have extra money to throw around, you can get stuff done faster via bribery.

They originally put waiting tines on the damage repairs but decided later to make those things immediate.
Earning money to buy what you want was an integral part of Real Racing and Real Racing 2 as well and I don't recall anyone complaining about that.

Bribery or not, there's simply no way for a car to be completely overhauled immediately even if you threw big bucks at the mechanic. It's not extreme realism, it's simply another way to make users cough up (real) money.

Quote:
Trust me, I get the freemium business model and I see things happen in the game that I know are meant to get me couching up real cash. I just feel that many of the complaints are over done and that if you have patience, there is a lot of enjoyment to be had from RR3 without spending a single penny on it.They are in business to make money and if nobody pays, there won't be in business for long and certainly won't be able to put out software of this caliber. In that thought, I'm inclined to give EA a few dollars in return for the enjoyment I get from their game.
Look at the user comments and reviews of RR3- people are willing to pay. Just not in the form of never-ending in-app purchases. Plenty of people bought Real Racing and RR2 for 10 bucks. I did too- but I refuse to pay for the silly in-app purchases in RR3 because it is an obvious cash grab.

Money to buy car A, but you need gold to buy car B. More gold if you want to use the car you just bought immediately. Money to fix car, gold to make it faster. Even more gold to get the parts installed immediately. And it never ends, which is the issue with RR3. People want to pay one price and just enjoy the game.

Heck, I wouldn't even mind car packs coming in DLC, as long as I only have to pay once for it (or twice- real $ to unlock, in-game $ to 'buy'). Going by the RR3 model though I'd have to pay for the car pack, pay for the car in several different types of currency which is earned in various ways then pay even more just to get the car delivered.
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Old Apr 15, 2013, 11:18 PM   #61
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Earning money to buy what you want was an integral part of Real Racing and Real Racing 2 as well and I don't recall anyone complaining about that.

Bribery or not, there's simply no way for a car to be completely overhauled immediately even if you threw big bucks at the mechanic. It's not extreme realism, it's simply another way to make users cough up (real) money.



Look at the user comments and reviews of RR3- people are willing to pay. Just not in the form of never-ending in-app purchases. Plenty of people bought Real Racing and RR2 for 10 bucks. I did too- but I refuse to pay for the silly in-app purchases in RR3 because it is an obvious cash grab.

Money to buy car A, but you need gold to buy car B. More gold if you want to use the car you just bought immediately. Money to fix car, gold to make it faster. Even more gold to get the parts installed immediately. And it never ends, which is the issue with RR3. People want to pay one price and just enjoy the game.

Heck, I wouldn't even mind car packs coming in DLC, as long as I only have to pay once for it (or twice- real $ to unlock, in-game $ to 'buy'). Going by the RR3 model though I'd have to pay for the car pack, pay for the car in several different types of currency which is earned in various ways then pay even more just to get the car delivered.
I hear you. I play Dead Trigger and it's also freemium. I was really pissed when they tossed out an update and didn't mention that a particular item I was paying for with in game cash, suddenly cost me gold. I lost about 30 gold before I realized because I would restock the item out of habit, 'knowing' that I had plenty of cash on hand to pay for it. Grrrrrrr

I can say that RR3 seems to be more generous with cash and gold than other freemium games I've played.

The update has introduced a few bugs though. Otherwise, I'm still blown away by what they have accomplished with my lowly 32gb iPad2. The quality draws you in during the race and really gets the adrenaline going, which is what it should do, no matter what it costs.
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