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Old Sep 27, 2012, 10:19 AM   #651
samcraig
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Originally Posted by brymck View Post

Absolutely. How does this narrative sound: "We really want to bring turn-by-turn navigation and many other features to our users. To do this, Google wants more access to user data. We take our users' privacy very seriously and find these terms unacceptable, therefore we're developing our own app, starting now. We're eager for your feedback as we build up to a public release. Help us make Maps on iPhone the best experience on any platform."

Instead, we got this: "Designed by Apple from the ground up, Maps gives you turn-by-turn spoken directions, interactive 3D views, and the stunning Flyover feature.1 All of which may just make this app the most beautiful, powerful mapping service ever."

I mean, really?!
Good narrative. Although I really question Apple's commentary about what Google did and didn't want regarding privacy. I don't think much or all of it had to do with privacy. I think Apple didn't want to have anything Google branded on their phone - which was part of Google's terms. Among some other details.

It's very much like Apple to divert the attention/reason/etc as to make them look like champions and the competition as inferior or wanting to do 'evil'.
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Old Sep 27, 2012, 10:32 AM   #652
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Originally Posted by samcraig View Post
Good narrative. Although I really question Apple's commentary about what Google did and didn't want regarding privacy. I don't think much or all of it had to do with privacy. I think Apple didn't want to have anything Google branded on their phone - which was part of Google's terms. Among some other details.

It's very much like Apple to divert the attention/reason/etc as to make them look like champions and the competition as inferior or wanting to do 'evil'.
I question it as well, especially given how passive-aggressive both companies seem right now toward each other.

I'm just saying that there was at least a better way to do this. I'm guessing the underlying problem was management hubris rather than lack of concern, but it boggles my mind that some really obvious insights ("some countries use public transit... a lot") seemed to have been dismissed. It's clear now that management had no idea how bad the problem was until just before release, hence the massive external hiring spree for Maps. And even then, the keynote implied something workable, which is not the case where I live.
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Old Sep 27, 2012, 10:37 AM   #653
samcraig
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Originally Posted by brymck View Post
I question it as well, especially given how passive-aggressive both companies seem right now toward each other.

I'm just saying that there was at least a better way to do this. I'm guessing the underlying problem was management hubris rather than lack of concern, but it boggles my mind that some really obvious insights ("some countries use public transit... a lot") seemed to have been dismissed. It's clear now that management had no idea how bad the problem was until just before release, hence the massive external hiring spree for Maps. And even then, the keynote implied something workable, which is not the case where I live.
I'm surprised at the amount of people who are supporting Apple fail to realize that just like any other company - they did not put the customer first with this decision. If nothing else - that should be transparent. Yet some people still argue otherwise.
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Old Sep 27, 2012, 10:42 AM   #654
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Quote:
Originally Posted by brymck View Post
Absolutely. How does this narrative sound: "We really want to bring turn-by-turn navigation and many other features to our users. To do this, Google wants more access to user data. We take our users' privacy very seriously and find these terms unacceptable, therefore we're developing our own app, starting now. We're eager for your feedback as we build up to a public release. Help us make Maps on iPhone the best experience on any platform."
Sounds deceitful. Apple doesn't really care about your privacy. They also want to collect your data to sell targetted advertising, same as Google.

----------

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Originally Posted by samcraig View Post
I'm surprised at the amount of people who are supporting Apple fail to realize that just like any other company - they did not put the customer first with this decision. If nothing else - that should be transparent. Yet some people still argue otherwise.
I don't agree with that. No seriously. I really think Apple didn't put out Maps in full knowledge of just how bad the dataset actually was or how bad making "maps pretty" would cut down on their usefulness to the average user on the street.

I'm pretty sure that up until DP 1 and the feedback that probably poured in, they thought it was nailed. And when it was all said and done and they found out just how much "catching up" they had to do, it was just too late to go back. In typical Apple fashion, it's best to try to spin it and just let it die down on its own, moving forward than admitting defeat.
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Old Sep 27, 2012, 10:46 AM   #655
samcraig
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Originally Posted by KnightWRX View Post
Sounds deceitful. Apple doesn't really care about your privacy. They also want to collect your data to sell targetted advertising, same as Google.

----------



I don't agree with that. No seriously. I really think Apple didn't put out Maps in full knowledge of just how bad the dataset actually was or how bad making "maps pretty" would cut down on their usefulness to the average user on the street.

I'm pretty sure that up until DP 1 and the feedback that probably poured in, they thought it was nailed. And when it was all said and done and they found out just how much "catching up" they had to do, it was just too late to go back. In typical Apple fashion, it's best to try to spin it and just let it die down on its own, moving forward than admitting defeat.
Sounds like you do agree with it though - mostly. If Apple had put the customer first - they would have spun something around that Maps is going into beta (like you suggested) until it was ready for everyone.

Instead - even though the cat was out of the bag, ego or whatever you want to call it was more important than the customer.

Before the GM - Apple had enough supporting evidence to the issues they would be facing if they went live. They went live anyway and crossed their fingers.
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Old Sep 27, 2012, 12:27 PM   #656
dv8r
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Originally Posted by samcraig View Post
I'm surprised at the amount of people who are supporting Apple fail to realize that just like any other company - they did not put the customer first with this decision. If nothing else - that should be transparent. Yet some people still argue otherwise.
Hell - not arguing anymore, we're at name calling (The Loop calling a David Pogue an ******* for being critical, which he really weren't).
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Old Sep 27, 2012, 01:01 PM   #657
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Originally Posted by samcraig View Post
I'm surprised at the amount of people who are supporting Apple fail to realize that just like any other company - they did not put the customer first with this decision. If nothing else - that should be transparent. Yet some people still argue otherwise.
Let's review your opinion in a year or so and see whether you are correct or whether you just don't know enough about the circumstances they were facing. I am certain that they didn't make this move on a whim and I am prepared to give them the benefit of the doubt that this will be in the interests of the customers in the long term.
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Old Sep 27, 2012, 01:20 PM   #658
samcraig
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Originally Posted by craig1410 View Post
Let's review your opinion in a year or so and see whether you are correct or whether you just don't know enough about the circumstances they were facing. I am certain that they didn't make this move on a whim and I am prepared to give them the benefit of the doubt that this will be in the interests of the customers in the long term.
My comment has nothing to do with long term. My comment has to do with the release. You don't have to review my opinion in a year unless you really want to. But by then it will be irrelevant to the conversation.

I also never suggested it was whim time. Nor did I suggest that Apple owning their own maps would be a mistake in the long term.
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Old Sep 27, 2012, 03:41 PM   #659
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Originally Posted by Mechinyun View Post
This is prob where the " 1 year left on the contract" comes in.

To support IOS 5 and below for another year for people yet to upgrade to IOS 6

- just a thought.
i'm confused.
most of the old devices can't upgrade to IOS6
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Old Sep 28, 2012, 12:54 PM   #660
charlesdayton
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Originally Posted by roadbloc View Post
This is where I really don't understand what has gone wrong. I have a TomTom satnav for my car and I find it the most reliable digital map program and GPS ever. And yet for some reason, Apple have managed to screw up TomTom's data.
Maybe TomTom uses updated data for themselves and licences only older one?
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Old Sep 28, 2012, 12:57 PM   #661
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Originally Posted by charlesdayton View Post
Maybe TomTom uses updated data for themselves and licences only older one?
They deny being at fault...

Quote:
Originally Posted by BBC News
TomTom, which also licenses data to a range of other mobile manufacturers, defended its involvement.

A spokesman told the BBC that its maps provided only a "foundation" to the service.

"The user experience is determined by adding additional features to the map application such as visual imagery," a spokesman said.

"User experience fully depends on the choices these manufacturers make.

"We are confident about our map quality, as selling 65 million portable navigation devices across the world and more than 1.4m TomTom apps for iPhone in the past two years reaffirms this quality."
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-19659736
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Old Sep 28, 2012, 01:23 PM   #662
samcraig
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I just searched for the Intrepid Museum. On Apple Maps (and to be fair, BING) it's showed as 47th and 7th.

On Google Maps it showed it correctly by the water.

Just another example.
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Old Sep 28, 2012, 03:58 PM   #663
charlesdayton
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Originally Posted by OllyW View Post
Thanks for the link.

So the satellite images are not provided by TomTom. But what about place location? Places have correct locations on TomTom but many are wrong on Apple Maps.
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Old Oct 10, 2012, 04:31 PM   #664
cycomiko
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Originally Posted by taylortm View Post
Seriously... 632 posts into this thread... I don't know why it was cycomiko that is the straw that broke this camel's (my) back... but I've had it.

Leave. Leave MR. Leave the Apple ecosystem. Just go away.

We get it. Apple booted Google Maps and went with Apple Maps. You (plural... not just cycomiko) don't like it. Maybe you (plural) have TOTALLY GOOD reasons for being disappointed. But, seriously, enough! Stop coming here and trying SO HARD to convince us all that Apple's horrible and stupid and doomed.

Just shut it and "vote with your wallet." Get to steppin' (you plural)!

Jeesh!

admittedly, /tantrum

hopefully, /thread
So, basically. Blindly accept everything apple does to you, or get out? what, are you 12?
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