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Old Mar 30, 2013, 04:08 PM   #26
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Yes Tim is more administrator but a good one I must say. he doesn't have the talent of steve jobs but he has Joni Ive, Phill Schiller Bob and the other guy that in charge of OSX they are his tools.
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Old Mar 30, 2013, 04:14 PM   #27
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Yes Tim is more administrator but a good one I must say. he doesn't have the talent of steve jobs but he has Joni Ive, Phill Schiller Bob and the other guy that in charge of OSX they are his tools.
Steve Job's talent, besides orator skills and stage presence, was finding and surrounding himself with talented people, and recognizing a good product when he sees it. He wasn't so much an innovator himself as much as the conductor of a high pressure innovative environment.

It takes talent to do that, admittedly. But Apple is no less a company with him gone, considering most of the people who are responsible for making Apple Apple are still there.
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Old Mar 30, 2013, 04:21 PM   #28
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Steve Job's talent, besides orator skills and stage presence, was finding and surrounding himself with talented people, and recognizing a good product when he sees it. He wasn't so much an innovator himself as much as the conductor of a high pressure innovative environment.

It takes talent to do that, admittedly. But Apple is no less a company with him gone, considering most of the people who are responsible for making Apple Apple are still there.
That is what leaders do, Jobs was a leader.
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Old Mar 30, 2013, 04:27 PM   #29
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That is what leaders do, Jobs was a leader.
Yeah, but lets not make him into the Great Leader, huh?

Ole Tim hasn't even been on the job for 2 years yet. Apple's still printing money like it's going out of style, still produce obscenely successful devices that practically sell out on day one, grew their PC division by (relative) leaps and bounds...

..and yet so many people are declaring him a failure.

Admittedly the guy can't speak on stage for crap, but that doesn't make him a bad CEO.
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Old Mar 30, 2013, 05:06 PM   #30
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Yeah, but lets not make him into the Great Leader, huh?

Ole Tim hasn't even been on the job for 2 years yet. Apple's still printing money like it's going out of style, still produce obscenely successful devices that practically sell out on day one, grew their PC division by (relative) leaps and bounds...

..and yet so many people are declaring him a failure.

Admittedly the guy can't speak on stage for crap, but that doesn't make him a bad CEO.
I don't have any real problem with Cook, I think Wall Street does though. Mr. Cook needs time to grow into his role and shape the organization to his vision, we're starting to see some of that now.
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Old Mar 30, 2013, 07:48 PM   #31
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That is what leaders do, Jobs was a leader.
Just curious what you think Apple would have done different in 2012 had Steve still been leader.
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Old Mar 30, 2013, 10:55 PM   #32
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Just curious what you think Apple would have done different in 2012 had Steve still been leader.
Not Hire John Browett...

Not Fire Scott Forstall...
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Old Mar 31, 2013, 03:15 AM   #33
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Not Fire Scott Forstall...
If all Forstall had to offer was broken Apps filled with stupid skeuomorphism like many people claimed, I agree with their decision to get rid of him. All he ever seemed to do with iOS was rip off an Android feature, add another icon you can't remove and make iOS just that little bit more slower on my iPhone 4.

If I still had an iPhone, I'd be very excited for the possibilities of a complete redesign in iOS 7.
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Old Mar 31, 2013, 02:01 PM   #34
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Not Hire John Browett...

Not Fire Scott Forstall...
Why exactly would keeping Forstall be a good thing considering the biggest criticisms of Apple right now mostly center around things he was responsible for (iOS, maps, Siri)? Oh and Jobs obviously was aware of and signed off on the hire of Mark Papermaster, not to mention advocated Tim Cook replacing him.

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If all Forstall had to offer was broken Apps filled with stupid skeuomorphism like many people claimed, I agree with their decision to get rid of him. All he ever seemed to do with iOS was rip off an Android feature, add another icon you can't remove and make iOS just that little bit more slower on my iPhone 4.

If I still had an iPhone, I'd be very excited for the possibilities of a complete redesign in iOS 7.
It has to be quite embarrassing for Apple that the top apps used on iPhone/iPad are from Google. Especially considering Steve Jobs often claimed Apple was a software company. Last year John Gruber reported that he heard privately the executive team was furious about the maps fiasco. How embarrassing for Tim Cook to have to promote competitors products because his is so crappy.
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Old Apr 1, 2013, 10:50 AM   #35
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Why exactly would keeping Forstall be a good thing considering the biggest criticisms of Apple right now mostly center around things he was responsible for (iOS, maps, Siri)? Oh and Jobs obviously was aware of and signed off on the hire of Mark Papermaster, not to mention advocated Tim Cook replacing him.
I think only time will tell. Forstall being fired is like Sinofsky being fired. If their shoes don't get filled, it'll be a failure.

The guy was responsible for iOS, which short of maps, was a success and became an iconic OS. Now that it's due for a refresh, it would've been useful to have the guy that made it a success in the first place on board to lead the refresh. Now you got guys with less experience taking a stab at it.
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Old Apr 1, 2013, 12:58 PM   #36
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I think only time will tell. Forstall being fired is like Sinofsky being fired. If their shoes don't get filled, it'll be a failure.

The guy was responsible for iOS, which short of maps, was a success and became an iconic OS. Now that it's due for a refresh, it would've been useful to have the guy that made it a success in the first place on board to lead the refresh. Now you got guys with less experience taking a stab at it.
But what if Forstall was an obstacle to changing iOS? Perhaps that's one of the reasons he was let go? As far as we know the software lieutenant under him are still at Apple. Greg Christie, who is responsible for iOS UI I believe has been at Apple longer than Forstall was.
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Old Apr 1, 2013, 03:24 PM   #37
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But what if Forstall was an obstacle to changing iOS? Perhaps that's one of the reasons he was let go? As far as we know the software lieutenant under him are still at Apple. Greg Christie, who is responsible for iOS UI I believe has been at Apple longer than Forstall was.
I guess we'll know once iOS 7 comes out. Kinda funny how both Forstall and Sinofsky, both key OS architects, were let go in the same timeframe for pretty much the same organizational reason. If their shoes can be filled, both companies will be better off but it's hard to tell.

iOS 7's design a really big deal for branding reasons. Not enough change and the brand officially becomes stale. Really curious to see what Ive comes up with.

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Isn't that something they did all the time? They did it with the first iPhone, the did it with iPods, why wouldn't they do it with the ipad too?
Which part? The refresh part?
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Old Apr 1, 2013, 05:12 PM   #38
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Why exactly would keeping Forstall be a good thing considering the biggest criticisms of Apple right now mostly center around things he was responsible for (iOS, maps, Siri)? Oh and Jobs obviously was aware of and signed off on the hire of Mark Papermaster, not to mention advocated Tim Cook replacing him.[COLOR="#808080"]
I didn't say it was good or bad.

Forstall went back a log way with Jobs so I don't think he would have fired him.

Might be good. Might be bad. Who knows at this point?
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Old Apr 2, 2013, 12:26 PM   #39
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I guess we'll know once iOS 7 comes out. Kinda funny how both Forstall and Sinofsky, both key OS architects, were let go in the same timeframe for pretty much the same organizational reason. If their shoes can be filled, both companies will be better off but it's hard to tell.

iOS 7's design a really big deal for branding reasons. Not enough change and the brand officially becomes stale. Really curious to see what Ive comes up with.
My guess is Apple doesn't want a Windows 8 on their hands so iOS 7 won be a radical change. Also Ive and Federighi may not have had enough time to make big changes. My hope is if nothing else, some of the most kitschy stuff is toned down. That shouldn't be hard to do.
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