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Old Jul 9, 2013, 03:45 PM   #26
SpaceKitty
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Originally Posted by holmesf View Post
I would not buy it at this point. In terms of specs it is just way behind the iPad 4, and so the next model will surely blow the current model away.

1. the CPU is 2x slower
2. the GPU is 4x slower
3. the display has 4x fewer pixels
The display is simply amazing on the current Mini. I was surprised at how nice it is when I opened the box. Fewer pixels does not matter on the current iPad as the colors and clarity are amazing.

What difference does a slower CPU make if a person doesn't have a iPad 4 to compare? It doesn't matter.

It also doesn't matter to the millions of current Mini owners.

Buy now if you want one, you won't regret it. I leave my Nexus 4 at home since I bought my Mini.
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Old Jul 9, 2013, 04:14 PM   #27
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and refurb ipad mini is a deal at the moment $279 / 279

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Old Jul 9, 2013, 04:20 PM   #28
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Originally Posted by SpaceKitty View Post
The display is simply amazing on the current Mini. I was surprised at how nice it is when I opened the box. Fewer pixels does not matter on the current iPad as the colors and clarity are amazing.

What difference does a slower CPU make if a person doesn't have a iPad 4 to compare? It doesn't matter.

It also doesn't matter to the millions of current Mini owners.

Buy now if you want one, you won't regret it. I leave my Nexus 4 at home since I bought my Mini.
The screen on the mini is not amazing. It barely has more pixels than an iPhone 5. After using a retina iPad it is not enjoyable to look at in the least. A retina iPad mini would be the perfect eReader.

The CPU and the GPU (and RAM too) matter quite a lot because it affects how long developers, and more importantly Apple, will support the device. Essentially the current iPad mini is an iPad 2 shrunken down, so it's got a lot of catching up to do. It won't be supported very long compared to the 4 because it's already 2 years behind.

The mini is popular because of its form factor, but that's its only advantage. If nothing else matters to you then yes, go ahead and buy the mini. But if you care about games, readability of the screen, performance, or support, then hold off on buying.

Last edited by holmesf; Jul 9, 2013 at 04:36 PM.
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Old Jul 9, 2013, 04:40 PM   #29
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Yeah the mini display is not amazing.

Um?
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Old Jul 9, 2013, 09:45 PM   #30
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Do you guys think that Apple will build the next Mini with comparable specs to whatever the latest version full size iPad is?

I love my mini. I just bought it mid-May and have no regrets.
As an aside, I also have an iPad 3 with retina and I can tell the difference, most noticeable with on screen text, the keyboard, menus and web pages.
However, in my opinion, the form factor, portability, fit, finish, and feel, all outweigh the downsides of the lower specs.


I hear photographers say the best camera is the one with you. There is more pictures taken today with really decent quality smartphones than ever before. I think on Flickr the most popular "camera" has been the iPhone for like 3 or 4 years now. http://www.flickr.com/cameras

I feel the same about my mini. I basically take it with me everywhere. When i go on photo excursions I can carry it in my back jeans pocket or add it to my backpack with my MBA and not even notice the added weight.

Last edited by CrockettGTO; Jul 9, 2013 at 10:18 PM.
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Old Jul 9, 2013, 10:24 PM   #31
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Originally Posted by CrockettGTO View Post
Do you guys think that Apple will build the next Mini with comparable specs to whatever the latest version full size iPad is?
No. The larger iPads have more space to fit a larger battery. Apple have established 10 hour battery life as a floor for iPad longevity. They could go back on it, but it wouldn't look good. Raw power over lifestyle usability hasn't been Apple's style for a long time (if ever), and it wouldn't fit with the Mini demographic, either. Why would someone choose a Mini over a larger iPad? The size and, by extension, portability. Hence the battery operating time is critical.

Quote:
Originally Posted by CrockettGTO View Post
I love my mini. I just bought it mid-May and have no regrets.
As an aside, I also have an iPad 3 with retina and I can tell the difference, most noticeable with on screen text, the keyboard, menus and web pages.
However, in my opinion, the form factor, portability, fit, finish, and feel, all outweigh the downsides of the lower specs.
I also have an iPad 3 and a Mini. I will sell my Mini and upgrade to a retina-based Mini as soon as it is released, even though I normally hate to play the upgrade game like that. The screen isn't as bad as I was expecting, but it's still noticeable to me and it makes a difference to my usability (digital notepad and reference). The difference is that my Mini fits in my work attire pockets, while my iPad 3 does not.
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Old Jul 9, 2013, 10:50 PM   #32
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Originally Posted by Ledgem View Post
No. The larger iPads have more space to fit a larger battery. Apple have established 10 hour battery life as a floor for iPad longevity. They could go back on it, but it wouldn't look good. Raw power over lifestyle usability hasn't been Apple's style for a long time (if ever), and it wouldn't fit with the Mini demographic, either. Why would someone choose a Mini over a larger iPad? The size and, by extension, portability. Hence the battery operating time is critical.

I also have an iPad 3 and a Mini. I will sell my Mini and upgrade to a retina-based Mini as soon as it is released, even though I normally hate to play the upgrade game like that. The screen isn't as bad as I was expecting, but it's still noticeable to me and it makes a difference to my usability (digital notepad and reference). The difference is that my Mini fits in my work attire pockets, while my iPad 3 does not.
I agree with you. I think they will continue to build out certain aspects but not add all the latest tech. If they add retina they will need to continue to evolve their battery technology in parallel. They may go backward on some aspects if it is necessary to strike that balance, like how they sacrificed on thinness to introduce the retina to the iPad, making it thicker than the predecessor.
Although if I remember correctly, that was when Steve was at he helm. Not sure if they could do it as gracefully today without his marketing and branding swagger.
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Old Jul 10, 2013, 02:06 AM   #33
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Originally Posted by holmesf View Post
I would not buy it at this point. In terms of specs it is just way behind the iPad 4, and so the next model will surely blow the current model away.

1. the CPU is 2x slower
2. the GPU is 4x slower
3. the display has 4x fewer pixels
And that is exactly why the Mini is fine. Pushing 4x less pixels, it should perform on par with a 4x less GPU.

An argument can be made for the CPU because of that as well. I had both and used them frequently, the Mini was not significantly slower at all.
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Old Jul 10, 2013, 04:47 AM   #34
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And that is exactly why the Mini is fine. Pushing 4x less pixels, it should perform on par with a 4x less GPU.

An argument can be made for the CPU because of that as well. I had both and used them frequently, the Mini was not significantly slower at all.
The biggest issue with the mini is the lack of RAM with 512Mb. Any modern IOS device needs 1Mb RAM imho to make it a smooth experience. Any kind of multitasking or multiple tabs in Safari for example shows up the lack of RAM.
The screen itself is absolutely fit for purpose, we have just been spoiled by the retina. My first LCD panel was a 15" model @ 1024x768 and that was fine at the time. I know others had a similar size screen with 800x600.
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Old Jul 11, 2013, 10:01 AM   #35
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So spending $250 on a like new iPad mini w 16g wifi is a good deal? I plan to use it till the new mini comes out, then sell this one n get a new one
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Old Jul 11, 2013, 10:51 AM   #36
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So spending $250 on a like new iPad mini w 16g wifi is a good deal? I plan to use it till the new mini comes out, then sell this one n get a new one
Sure. The refurb is like $298 give or take after tax. So you'd be saving yourself another 50 bucks. Go for it.
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Old Jul 11, 2013, 03:17 PM   #37
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Have you looked at the buyer's guide?

Basically, it's a tossup.

http://buyersguide.macrumors.com/#iPad_Mini
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Old Jul 11, 2013, 04:07 PM   #38
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Originally Posted by holmesf View Post
The screen on the mini is not amazing. It barely has more pixels than an iPhone 5. After using a retina iPad it is not enjoyable to look at in the least. A retina iPad mini would be the perfect eReader.

The CPU and the GPU (and RAM too) matter quite a lot because it affects how long developers, and more importantly Apple, will support the device. Essentially the current iPad mini is an iPad 2 shrunken down, so it's got a lot of catching up to do. It won't be supported very long compared to the 4 because it's already 2 years behind.

The mini is popular because of its form factor, but that's its only advantage. If nothing else matters to you then yes, go ahead and buy the mini. But if you care about games, readability of the screen, performance, or support, then hold off on buying.
That's a pretty extreme opinion...though in response to another 'extreme' opinion. The screen isn't amazing. Though its not nearly as 'bad' as so many have made it out to be. The processor is actually a shrunken die of the original A5---the A5x of which is in the iPad 3..only a year old. The iPhone 4S also has limited RAM and at 1GB in the retina iPads...part of it helping with the display... App developers aren't likely to abandon the platform anytime soon. It's the highest population of devices (iOS) right now.

That said...as an owner of both the '4' and mini, I'm looking forward to a retina 'mini'. Just not for the reasons you've outlined. It's a damn fine tablet

Quote:
Originally Posted by CrockettGTO View Post
I agree with you. I think they will continue to build out certain aspects but not add all the latest tech. If they add retina they will need to continue to evolve their battery technology in parallel. They may go backward on some aspects if it is necessary to strike that balance, like how they sacrificed on thinness to introduce the retina to the iPad, making it thicker than the predecessor.
Although if I remember correctly, that was when Steve was at he helm. Not sure if they could do it as gracefully today without his marketing and branding swagger.
IGZO panels, more efficient A7 processing and graphics...as well, maybe an additional 20-40 grams in the mini (Apple added weight from 2-3 to allow retina) could very well fit into your vision while maintaining battery life. Like Intel, ARM processors are also based on efficiency with each evolution....while also gaining significant performance advantages of their predecessors.


Quote:
Originally Posted by l0gikb0mb View Post
And that is exactly why the Mini is fine. Pushing 4x less pixels, it should perform on par with a 4x less GPU.

An argument can be made for the CPU because of that as well. I had both and used them frequently, the Mini was not significantly slower at all.
Ya beat me to it . Precisely. I still have both and haven't noticed any performance degradation on any apps in comparison (4vs.Mini). Games, surfing and reading...notes and casual stuff. Video manipulation on the iPad 4 though, very nice. Both Avid and iMovie are a blast. The mini works just fine, though a bit slower. Certainly not to the point of ever crashing or significant degradation.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Donka View Post
The biggest issue with the mini is the lack of RAM with 512Mb. Any modern IOS device needs 1Mb RAM imho to make it a smooth experience. Any kind of multitasking or multiple tabs in Safari for example shows up the lack of RAM.
The screen itself is absolutely fit for purpose, we have just been spoiled by the retina. My first LCD panel was a 15" model @ 1024x768 and that was fine at the time. I know others had a similar size screen with 800x600.
My first panel was monochrome. First color was effectively 140x192 due to pixel placement restrictions....Apple IIe. New (modern) devices WILL have 1+GB of RAM. But, as mentioned earlier....there are still a couple hundred million A5/512 models on the streets...some less than a year old. App developers are smart enough to program to the "masses" while there will be the typical evolutionary drop in support as time moves on. However, my eight year old son could care less about specs and speed. He's very much happy with the original iPad and often prefers to play his fourth gen iTouch instead of his new, 5th gen (from his grandparents...I don't buy him a new touch each year ).

Spoiled by retina is exactly right. It's amazing, I own the rMBP and am hoping the Windows OEMs catch on to the fad this year too. I'm a sucker for these sharp displays but its definitely not a deal breaker on my iPad mini. I love mine. Bought on launch and returned it for an LTE model at AT&T for a hundred bucks off. I use it constantly and it's always with me. Tough to beat this form factor, speed, LTE and YES....Even this display in such a portable package. When the iPad 2/3 mini with retina drops, I'll be in line and won't care much at all taking the hit on the resale of the original.....or more likely, replacing the aging iPad original of my son's with the first gen mini. Again, he could care less about 'retina'. Sometimes I think those of us self proclaimed 'geeks' have lost that technological innocence that the mass society still retains. Hence the continuing sales of the iPad 2 and cheap laptops with terrible displays (sub $500 Windows machines). When it comes to the 'rest Of the world' and display performance, Apple clearly has the industry beat, regardless of your choice of device. iPhone. iPad. MBP. rMBP. iTouch...they're all top or near top of their class. It would be cool to see other OEMs also take the time to calibrated their displays on the way out the manufacturing door.

Just my eleven cents

Tl;dr....the mini is an excellent device. Screen is good, not great, not excellent but still....very good :-)

J
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Old Jul 11, 2013, 10:39 PM   #39
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The mini is perfect for mobility, as is the iPad 4 for use at home.

I would be careful about it as an eReader if you plan on reading outdoors or at the beach etc. the only screen which works outdoors is the original black and white eInk screens on Kindle, Kobo etc.
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Old Jul 12, 2013, 04:46 AM   #40
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The mini is perfect for mobility, as is the iPad 4 for use at home.

I would be careful about it as an eReader if you plan on reading outdoors or at the beach etc. the only screen which works outdoors is the original black and white eInk screens on Kindle, Kobo etc.
Even at home or in a darker room, over any length of time, the kindle screen is far superior for text reading imho.
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Old Jul 12, 2013, 04:55 AM   #41
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Originally Posted by holmesf View Post
The screen on the mini is not amazing. It barely has more pixels than an iPhone 5. After using a retina iPad it is not enjoyable to look at in the least. A retina iPad mini would be the perfect eReader.

The CPU and the GPU (and RAM too) matter quite a lot because it affects how long developers, and more importantly Apple, will support the device. Essentially the current iPad mini is an iPad 2 shrunken down, so it's got a lot of catching up to do. It won't be supported very long compared to the 4 because it's already 2 years behind.

The mini is popular because of its form factor, but that's its only advantage. If nothing else matters to you then yes, go ahead and buy the mini. But if you care about games, readability of the screen, performance, or support, then hold off on buying.
Yeah readability is a concern on mini. But performance and gaming?.

Come on man!. It is perfect for gaming. Especially coming from Android Tabs, where u want to tear your hear out due to incompatibility of some games on ur tabs , not to mention , different games behave differently - some stutter, while some are very smooth . These issues are not at all there in mini. Every game runs smooth and lag free and the weight makes it ideal to enjoy gaming for hours.

Please don't mislead potential buyers by saying its not good for gaming.
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Old Jul 12, 2013, 10:08 AM   #42
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Why pull an erroneous number like $ 700 out of thin air?

Those of us with Apple experience know that the price is only revealed after they announce a new product.

Seeing there's no such thing as a retina iPad mini, your post has no credibility.
Kinda harsh eh? Not really erroneous---Apple to date hasn't increased the price on any of the iPads in parity (storage-wise) with the replacement *year ago* unit. Even when retina displays on the 'New' iPad 3 came out a year ago. He mentions he got a 64GB/LTE model and is assuming the new model coming @ some point (w/Retina display) will be $700. The current model he picked up @ a bargain is currently $659 right now. Even in a relatively conservative market with a 5% sales tax puts the price at just a hair shy of $700.

Most of us with Apple experience also realize Apple hasn't (yet) raised or lowered the price of the 'new' iOS device. And even though there is 'no such thing as a *retina* mini'....most of us with Apple experience are assuming a higher rez screen Mini is imminent. Perhaps not in 2013....maybe not even next year (if their hope is to keep form factor the same, increase RAM, CPU grunt...and even better display technology to improve 'readability' @ the current resolution) to maintain a substantial difference between the iPad and the iPad mini. My opinion, they couldn't care less....they doubled their sales nearly year over year releasing in the fourth quarter the iPad 4 update and the mini. Can't assume what the actual numbers are....but who cares, right? If they're selling 19+ million iPads now (with two models) vs. 11 mil with a single, large model...as Tim Cook says, they don't mind 'canabalizing' themselves....and maintain the pricing system as is....possibly even giving us 'more' for the money, as in 32GB is the starting point in the iPad major, 16 in the mini? Possibly?

Sorry...didn't mean to go on like that. Just thought your response to a relatively common sense statement was a bit over the top, no?

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Old Jul 12, 2013, 11:43 AM   #43
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I keep holding and holding off until a retina mini is announced. However, I'm tempted to get one now.

Worst case scenario, you can purchase the mini now. If the new mini has some feature you really want/need (retina), you can always sell the original mini to fund the new one.
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Old Jul 12, 2013, 05:20 PM   #44
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I keep holding and holding off until a retina mini is announced. However, I'm tempted to get one now.

Worst case scenario, you can purchase the mini now. If the new mini has some feature you really want/need (retina), you can always sell the original mini to fund the new one.
The latest news / rumors are that we might not see a retina mini until 2014. My stance remains the same as it was before this, but now if you want it. The current mini is a delight. No reason to wait another potential six months for something you want now.
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