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Old Jun 18, 2013, 12:40 PM   #51
DUCKofD3ATH
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Originally Posted by Eraserhead View Post

Except that if I don't have enough time off I start making a lot more mistakes so are actually less productive.
Fixed that so you weren't generalizing about anybody but yourself. How much is "enough time off" so you don't make mistakes? Again, it depends on circumstances, but in general, you need to spend more time working to achieve mastery of your craft or profession.

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And I always have a substantial proportion of my good ideas while I'm not working.
Excuse me, but if you're thinking about work on your time off, it's not time off.

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Originally Posted by Huntn View Post
Obviously you don't require or ask for paid vacation...
Cryptic.
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Old Jun 18, 2013, 12:45 PM   #52
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Depends on why you're working. If you want to be successful, the secret is no secret at all:

"No one who rises before dawn 360 days a year will fail to make his family rich."
Chinese proverb

"Work more, vacation less, that's the secret to success."
Me
Work smarter, not harder.
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Old Jun 18, 2013, 12:46 PM   #53
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Work smarter, not harder.
Work smarter and harder. Get rich.
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Old Jun 18, 2013, 01:35 PM   #54
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Seems like a pretty bad environment - not all academic environments are like that .

----------



Except that if you don't have enough time off you start making a lot more mistakes so are actually less productive.

And I always have a substantial proportion of my good ideas while I'm not working.
Silly facts are not needed in this debate..
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Old Jun 18, 2013, 01:54 PM   #55
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Seems like a pretty bad environment - not all academic environments are like that ....
It's not so bad, but the standard is that one is judged by what can be accomplished in a year, not what could be accomplished in a year minus statutory holidays. I miss work after a week or so, but I get annoyed with turbo-colleagues who never take time off because the set the tone of the place...
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Old Jun 18, 2013, 02:15 PM   #56
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Work smarter and harder. Get rich.
What's the point? You bust ass your whole life to enjoy a decade or so of retirement, then die.

I work for a very good company, I get 8 weeks of paid vacation a year, I use them all and most of my personal days, my job nets me a nice house, 5 cars, money to travel the world, lots of land and a nice 40 hour work week, I get to do the things I want in life,

Do I make a million a year? No, but I do very well and will retire fairly wealthy

I could go out and start My own company easily if I wanted to, and probably triple my income, but I would work my fingers to the bone every day with hardly any time off.

What's the point?
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Old Jun 18, 2013, 05:12 PM   #57
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Work smarter and harder. Get rich.
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Originally Posted by G51989 View Post
What's the point? You bust ass your whole life to enjoy a decade or so of retirement, then die.

I work for a very good company, I get 8 weeks of paid vacation a year, I use them all and most of my personal days, my job nets me a nice house, 5 cars, money to travel the world, lots of land and a nice 40 hour work week, I get to do the things I want in life,

Do I make a million a year? No, but I do very well and will retire fairly wealthy

I could go out and start My own company easily if I wanted to, and probably triple my income, but I would work my fingers to the bone every day with hardly any time off.

What's the point?
This was pretty much my response, except that I don't have five cars, land, and all that. But I have time, and no amount of money can buy more of that.

To many people, getting rich is not the end game. That's for people who have little other value in their life. Money is the only thing that drives them. Friends, family, and entertainment come second to their perceived power related to their wealth.

What drives me is the fact that I only work about half the year, and the other half is mine to do with whatever I choose. Before we had a baby, my wife and I made well over $100,000 a year together, and with half the year free, could spend our time doing whatever we wanted to. We traveled, went to concerts, went kayaking often, bought whatever we wanted, etc. Things are a little tighter these days since she stopped working, but I still get to spend well over half of my days free with my 14-month old. That is time no amount of riches will ever get me back. If the converse is that I spend 14 hours a day, six days a week in the office, but I'll have some more money, that is of little interest to me.

If being rich is all you want out of life, knock yourself out, but don't pretend that you're some type of martyr we should all look up to. And certainly don't act like those that don't fall into your wasted version of life deserve but a pittance for what they do accomplish.

EDIT: Funny story. There's another forum I visit which is full of the "I'm rich and you're not" types, you know, the types who denigrate anyone who isn't an investment banker or wealthy business owner. One guy in particular is just insulting and a pompous, condescending jackass. Talks constantly about how high-powered and rich he is, how his "bedroom is bigger than your whole house", etc. But, there's one problem: he has a homepage attached to his profile which is his personal Facebook page, and it's all public. Within five minutes, I found that he lives in a dumpy old house worth less than $130k in the outskirts of a small midwest city and talks about how he needs to split the costs of things with friends because of how expensive they are. Doesn't sound like the shining beacon of American success to me.
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Old Jun 18, 2013, 05:29 PM   #58
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Originally Posted by G51989 View Post
What's the point? You bust ass your whole life to enjoy a decade or so of retirement, then die.

I work for a very good company, I get 8 weeks of paid vacation a year, I use them all and most of my personal days, my job nets me a nice house, 5 cars, money to travel the world, lots of land and a nice 40 hour work week, I get to do the things I want in life,

Do I make a million a year? No, but I do very well and will retire fairly wealthy

I could go out and start My own company easily if I wanted to, and probably triple my income, but I would work my fingers to the bone every day with hardly any time off.

What's the point?
Oh, so you don't work hard and smart. Got you.
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Old Jun 18, 2013, 05:56 PM   #59
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Oh, so you don't work hard and smart. Got you.
My salary would dictate otherwise. I currently earn well over 135,000 a year.

If I worked more I could make more, but then I would have less time to enjoy life
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Old Jun 18, 2013, 09:37 PM   #60
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Originally Posted by DUCKofD3ATH View Post
Work smarter and harder. Get rich.
Argue on the political section of a technology forum ad nauseam, then die.
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Old Jun 18, 2013, 09:54 PM   #61
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Argue on the political section of a technology forum ad nauseam, then die.
Well, if that's your idea of a fulfilling life, who am I to criticize?
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Old Jun 18, 2013, 11:01 PM   #62
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This was pretty much my response, except that I don't have five cars, land, and all that. But I have time, and no amount of money can buy more of that.

To many people, getting rich is not the end game. That's for people who have little other value in their life. Money is the only thing that drives them. Friends, family, and entertainment come second to their perceived power related to their wealth.

What drives me is the fact that I only work about half the year, and the other half is mine to do with whatever I choose. Before we had a baby, my wife and I made well over $100,000 a year together, and with half the year free, could spend our time doing whatever we wanted to. We traveled, went to concerts, went kayaking often, bought whatever we wanted, etc. Things are a little tighter these days since she stopped working, but I still get to spend well over half of my days free with my 14-month old. That is time no amount of riches will ever get me back. If the converse is that I spend 14 hours a day, six days a week in the office, but I'll have some more money, that is of little interest to me.

If being rich is all you want out of life, knock yourself out, but don't pretend that you're some type of martyr we should all look up to. And certainly don't act like those that don't fall into your wasted version of life deserve but a pittance for what they do accomplish.

EDIT: Funny story. There's another forum I visit which is full of the "I'm rich and you're not" types, you know, the types who denigrate anyone who isn't an investment banker or wealthy business owner. One guy in particular is just insulting and a pompous, condescending jackass. Talks constantly about how high-powered and rich he is, how his "bedroom is bigger than your whole house", etc. But, there's one problem: he has a homepage attached to his profile which is his personal Facebook page, and it's all public. Within five minutes, I found that he lives in a dumpy old house worth less than $130k in the outskirts of a small midwest city and talks about how he needs to split the costs of things with friends because of how expensive they are. Doesn't sound like the shining beacon of American success to me.
Well I don't have kids or a large family, not do I really want them, ( might marry my french tho ), so for me, I love cars, one of my passions, I love working on them, I like building them and driving them. So for me it's how I like spending my time, I'd rather be wrenching on my 69 Camaro than spending more time in office land

Oh I know what you mean, I suppose lots of people would consider myself wealthy and I suppose I am, money wasn't the deciding factor In my career choice, I love what I do.

And of course time can't be bought back, ESP when you have children, for me? My GF lives going home to Eueope to visit, I enjoy going to.

Is a couple extra dollars in the bank worth missing out on all that fun? I think not.

Indeed, if people want to dedicate their life to getting rich, they should do it, but they should realize that they can't take it to the grave.
Nice story!

I say that's the current American way of life. As wages for most drop

There are some people who spend everything they own on a big house, then throw parties, and rent furniture and nice cars just to make their friends think they're rich.

How pathetic and empt does your life have to be for you to want to do that?
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Old Jun 19, 2013, 01:39 PM   #63
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Fixed that so you weren't generalizing about anybody but yourself. How much is "enough time off" so you don't make mistakes? Again, it depends on circumstances, but in general, you need to spend more time working to achieve mastery of your craft or profession.
More than ~40 hours a week? Really?

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Originally Posted by DUCKofD3ATH View Post
Excuse me, but if you're thinking about work on your time off, it's not time off.
You aren't actively thinking about work - but you are passively thinking about it.
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Old Jun 19, 2013, 11:09 PM   #64
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My salary would dictate otherwise. I currently earn well over 135,000 a year.
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Oh, so you don't work hard and smart. Got you.
If he's doing his job and making $135,000 a year, how much harder and smarter do you think he should work?

Or are you one of those people who just works and works because nothing else in life fulfills you outside of another dollar?
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Old Jun 19, 2013, 11:23 PM   #65
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If he's doing his job and making $135,000 a year, how much harder and smarter do you think he should work?

Or are you one of those people who just works and works because nothing else in life fulfills you outside of another dollar?
This is exactly it, sometimes I do put some more projects in, and sometimes I do make more than that, I don't dislike working, it's fun. Last time I put in extra was for a boat, used, 8,000 dollars so I got another project in, and I had a last restoring it to its cheesy 80s speed boat glory, and sometimes I'll put some extra hours in if we are far behind.

But personlly, I refuse to spend my life slaving away for more a few more dollars in my accounts

Last edited by G51989; Jun 20, 2013 at 05:47 AM.
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Old Jun 20, 2013, 08:04 AM   #66
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Many Many Many links. If you want you can Google it, but here is a few to get you started.

http://wiki.answers.com/Q/Do_republi...ore_to_charity (This even has a link within a link)

http://www.science20.com/news_articl..._charity-90603

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/12/21/op...nce20.com&_r=0
Those are links to opinion pieces. What about actual studies? I thought this assertion that conservatives give more a little dubious. Indeed it is. I have two points. First of all, the basic assertion is not true:

http://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.c...act_id=2148033
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In this paper, we first show that conservatives and liberals are equally generous in their donation habits. This pattern holds at both the individual and state level, and contradicts the conventional wisdom that partisans differ in their generosity. Second, we show that while levels of giving are roughly equivalent, liberals are much more likely to donate to secular organizations, and conservatives are more likely to donate to religious causes, especially their own congregation.
And two, I think that means conservatives actually give less:

Personally, I think that counting donating money to your own congregation as charity is pretty dubious. These people are (to the degree that their donation merely funds the church's inward-focused functions and salaries) basically paying a membership fee to a club they like. It's like me saying my club membership should be considered a charitable donation. Even if that characterization is unfair, there's clearly a difference between donating to one's own church (from with the person donating gets a benefit) and to an organization that only serves others.

Donating to your church's fund that actually does charity work for non-members outside the church absolutely should be considered charity, of course.

Keeping this in mind, conservatives don't actually contribute as much to charity as some people claim, and the idea that they contribute more than liberals is doubtful.
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Old Jun 20, 2013, 11:28 AM   #67
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This is exactly it, sometimes I do put some more projects in, and sometimes I do make more than that, I don't dislike working, it's fun. Last time I put in extra was for a boat, used, 8,000 dollars so I got another project in, and I had a last restoring it to its cheesy 80s speed boat glory, and sometimes I'll put some extra hours in if we are far behind.

But personlly, I refuse to spend my life slaving away for more a few more dollars in my accounts
Absolutely. I actually want to work more than I do, and things are looking up. But I have no intention of abandoning my family, missing birthdays, taking my kid out to play, etc, just so I can quell someone else's jealousy that they are wasting their life away in the office in an attempt to become rich and powerful.

Truth is, I have too much else I want to do with my time than sit in an office. Some people, that's all they want. Most of the people I know like that have nothing else that they can do to fill their time...they have no interests, no hobbies...nothing to fill their time, so they slave away at work. This is especially sad when it doesn't lead to anything...just more hours away.

I am yet again reminded of these quotes from a poster on this forum several years ago (not attributing the quote so he doesn't get notified):

Quote:
I only apply a single thought to every decision....does this make me money? A call with a friend, no.....a call to a client, yes. Call the client.

Other than direct family I see every day, no parties, no birthday gifts, ect. Store brand only, and never ever ever eat out.
------
What you don't figure into that calculation is that money equals power. The more money you have the more power you have. Going to eat out someplace is pedestrian at best. Having the power to get people in that eatery hired or fired, drive away competitors, reward people who are loyal is the true thrill in life.
To me, the above just sounds like a miserable existence. But, if that's what makes him happy, then great. But when people like this suggest that someone else doesn't deserve anything in life because they aren't working hard, it really grinds my gears. And the sad thing is, that people like this are probably the ones who make decisions regarding workers' rights and laws.
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Old Jun 20, 2013, 11:46 AM   #68
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What you don't figure into that calculation is that money equals power. The more money you have the more power you have. Going to eat out someplace is pedestrian at best. Having the power to get people in that eatery hired or fired, drive away competitors, reward people who are loyal is the true thrill in life.
Who said this and under what context? I could not find the source. First glance it's really disgusting.
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Old Jun 20, 2013, 11:59 AM   #69
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Who said this and under what context? I could not find the source. First glance it's really disgusting.
The link to the thread is here. The first part of my quote starts at post 16.
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Old Jun 20, 2013, 12:47 PM   #70
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I can tell you all for nothing, not having to work is fantastic.

They don't call it the RAT RACE for nothing.
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Old Jun 20, 2013, 01:42 PM   #71
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I can tell you all for nothing, not having to work is fantastic.

They don't call it the RAT RACE for nothing.
I like my job, a rather lot. I think I'll probably continue doing my job if I can in the years after I retire albeit at a much slower pace.
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