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Old Jun 11, 2014, 03:13 PM   #76
yg17
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Blaming rape victims? That's a new low for PRSI. Going to be tough to get much lower than that.
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Old Jun 11, 2014, 03:18 PM   #77
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We can also stop murders by teaching our kids killing is wrong.
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Old Jun 11, 2014, 03:41 PM   #78
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Southern Dad View Post
I am sorry for what happened to you and I hope that your attacker is still doing time until they carry his dead body out of the prison.

However, in what you said, I see the mistake that you made and I hope that you have learned from it. While you were trained and armed, the mistake was that you were unaware of your surroundings. Even if you had been dressed in a skimpy mini-skirt, heck even if you were naked, he had no business forcing himself upon you. I only wish you had dispatched him in the parking lot so that no one else had to worry about him doing it to them.

It is tough to always be aware of your surroundings but it is also essential. We have a dozen distractions around us at any one time. You also add in fatigue from a long work day and it is an attacker's environment.
I was aware of my surroundings. David was supposed to be there. You do realize, a large percentage of rape survivors know their rapists.

Also, it was the beginning of my work day. Granted, it was March and 7am so it was "darkish", but I'd parked under a light, I did everything "right".

I trained, I listened to every man in my life to learn how to fight, how to shoot. Maybe it's time to teach young men to respect "No". It may not have stopped what happened to me, but it sure as hell help shift the blame from the survivor to the perpetrator.

Now, I'm a statistic.



(As to my rapist. I stood up to him in court, I held up the photos of my face, chest and groin, so he could see the physical damage he caused. He only got 10 years, he was released for "good behavior" in 2012.)

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Originally Posted by boast View Post
We can also stop murders by teaching our kids killing is wrong.
The problem is, in murder, it's offensive to blame the victim. In rape, it's common place.
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Old Jun 11, 2014, 04:04 PM   #79
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Originally Posted by skottichan View Post
I was aware of my surroundings. David was supposed to be there. You do realize, a large percentage of rape survivors know their rapists.

Also, it was the beginning of my work day. Granted, it was March and 7am so it was "darkish", but I'd parked under a light, I did everything "right".

I trained, I listened to every man in my life to learn how to fight, how to shoot. Maybe it's time to teach young men to respect "No". It may not have stopped what happened to me, but it sure as hell help shift the blame from the survivor to the perpetrator.

Now, I'm a statistic.



(As to my rapist. I stood up to him in court, I held up the photos of my face, chest and groin, so he could see the physical damage he caused. He only got 10 years, he was released for "good behavior" in 2012.)



The problem is, in murder, it's offensive to blame the victim. In rape, it's common place.
Okay, I give. You did everything right. Nothing you do about it. You were and remain a helpless victim. We'll forget about teaching women to defend themselves. Ms. Nevada should be ashamed of herself for suggesting that a woman learn self defense. I know I am ashamed for even thinking a woman should or could fight back. I apologize.

I'm done with the thread. I'll allow you all to get back to your plan to stop all rapes by teaching men, that it is wrong.
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Old Jun 11, 2014, 04:06 PM   #80
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Okay, I give. You did everything right. Nothing you do about it. You were and remain a helpless victim.
it is still in your mind she could have prevented it. this is the problem if woman only prevented their rapes it would not be a problem. I mean really they should be psychic and know when someone is thinking of rape.
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Old Jun 11, 2014, 04:49 PM   #81
yg17
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Blaming rape victims? That's a new low for PRSI. Going to be tough to get much lower than that.
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Originally Posted by Southern Dad View Post
Okay, I give. You did everything right. Nothing you do about it. You were and remain a helpless victim.
I was wrong. It does get lower than blaming rape victims. Not just blaming, but mocking one to their face (well as close as to their face as the internet allows)
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Old Jun 11, 2014, 04:57 PM   #82
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Originally Posted by Southern Dad View Post
So can you tell me with 100% certainty that your training is going to make all men stop raping? If you can't then we need to work on teaching people not to be victims. She did many things right. She was armed and trained but she let her guard down and a low life scumbag raped her. I don't think you can erase all low life scumbags from the planet.
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Okay, I give. You did everything right. Nothing you do about it. You were and remain a helpless victim. We'll forget about teaching women to defend themselves. Ms. Nevada should be ashamed of herself for suggesting that a woman learn self defense. I know I am ashamed for even thinking a woman should or could fight back. I apologize.

I'm done with the thread. I'll allow you all to get back to your plan to stop all rapes by teaching men, that it is wrong.
Bloody hell. Everything is so black/white with you here.

At no point in time did I say that education would stop it 100% from happening. Just as in no point in time did anyone say that women knowing how to defend themselves would stop it all the time. Skottichan knew how to defend herself, and it sitll happened. She knew her surroundings (to quote your 'mistake'), and it still happened. She had everything from martial arts to a gun in her possession, and it still happened.

No-one said that there is a quick blue pill you can take that will be a panacea to this problem, however, we can minimize it and bring this problem to an minimum in this country and around the world with both self-defense and education: Both in conjunction.

You keep saying that men can't be helped; you keep saying that you can't control other people's actions. The latter, I do agree with, but you also are being oblivious to the fact that if we teach them right from wrong to begin with, they will know the consequences of what is wrong and how it will effectively ruin or end their lives so they won't even think let alone attempt to do it. We teach them, and teach them early and often. That is how we get men to stop. If they don't stop, we have self-defense to handle the single incident.

You keep handling single incident after single incident. Keep applying that bandage to the same open wound. When that gets boring and too stressful to you, we'll still be here for you to join to help us fix the problem.

BL.
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Old Jun 11, 2014, 05:04 PM   #83
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Southern Dad View Post
Okay, I give. You did everything right. Nothing you do about it. You were and remain a helpless victim. We'll forget about teaching women to defend themselves. Ms. Nevada should be ashamed of herself for suggesting that a woman learn self defense. I know I am ashamed for even thinking a woman should or could fight back. I apologize.

I'm done with the thread. I'll allow you all to get back to your plan to stop all rapes by teaching men, that it is wrong.

Wow, just wow. You will stop at nothing to argue your side, even mocking a rape victim. So convenient for you to ignore her telling us she was trained in self defense and carried a gun and was aware of her surroundings. The only thing in this thread anyone should be ashamed of is your posts.
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Old Jun 11, 2014, 06:35 PM   #84
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I agree with some of the criticism in that not everybody can or certainly should have to learn self-defense.

On the other hand, I agree with Ms Nevada that it is a great idea if they do. In fact, I think as many people as possible should learn hand-to-hand, unarmed self-defense techniques. Like police officers. Especially police officers. Along with their training in how to handle people suffering from mental illness.

I think it is (actually) shameful that most police officers learn how to shoot, but, don't learn non-lethal alternatives to shooting if they are being attacked. My own anecdotal knowledge is that martial arts training is much more likely to be useful day-to-day, and, used defensively.


If the people who spend hours per week practicing shooting would spend the same amount of time studying judo, jiu-jitsu, aikido, etc., the world would be a better and safer place. (Unsourced assertion.)
Learning defensive skills goes beyond just self defense, it installs confidence and exercise among others.

I think schools fail in teaching the most important subjects.

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Changing attitudes?

Like anyone thrusting into a crying, screaming, fighting person doesn't know it's wrong?

Rape is one of the most heinous crimes, and it takes a mentally deranged person to do it.

No, teach your daughters to fight and stab sexual attackers in the throat and use any means necessary to escape the attack.
While I agree with you about rape, look at world social attitudes.

From Abraham laws that, one can argue, condone rape.
Objectifying women
Porn that often depicts women as sex toys (without explanation it is agreed on fantasy, not actual).

Open and frank dialog between sexes about sex seems to be non-existant, to the point of even mentioning the word sex by male in front of female can cause alarmed reactions.
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Old Jun 11, 2014, 06:53 PM   #85
steve knight
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jnpy!$4g3cwk View Post
I agree with some of the criticism in that not everybody can or certainly should have to learn self-defense.

On the other hand, I agree with Ms Nevada that it is a great idea if they do. In fact, I think as many people as possible should learn hand-to-hand, unarmed self-defense techniques. Like police officers. Especially police officers. Along with their training in how to handle people suffering from mental illness.

I think it is (actually) shameful that most police officers learn how to shoot, but, don't learn non-lethal alternatives to shooting if they are being attacked. My own anecdotal knowledge is that martial arts training is much more likely to be useful day-to-day, and, used defensively.


If the people who spend hours per week practicing shooting would spend the same amount of time studying judo, jiu-jitsu, aikido, etc., the world would be a better and safer place. (Unsourced assertion.)
Cops used to fight perps they would beat the crap out of them with billy clubs and such. But laws changed that because A; it was abuse of power and B: wrestling with someone is very dangerous too easy to loose control of your gun or loose a fight. When a person does not want to get arrested they can go all crazy on you and even tazers don't always work. a police offer needs to show absolute power over someone they are arresting to keep the from fighting or killing them. How many fights could someone handle in a day or week? think of the cost in medical expenses and down time.
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