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Old Aug 22, 2013, 09:16 AM   #1
MiniD3
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Aperture and back-up?

Hi Guys
Finally got my new iMac,
Downloaded Aperture and sorted out a Zillion images

Been a few days learning curve with the iMac and Aperture

After I got all my images sorted from external drives and a bunch of cards,
It was time to think about back-up

Time machine has been running to 2 external drives,

Checked them out, could not find images anywhere!
They were sitting in the iPhoto folder in the finder

After reading all the help options, apparently, even with vaults set up, the masters do not get backed up?

So, I went back to the finder and "dragged and dropped" the Image Library in to each drive
I then opened aperture and using the library on the external drive,
Everything worked OK thankfully

I am obviously approaching this all wrong but thats how it panned out
I have too many images to have on the iMac at one time

So, what is the best way to backup images in the future?
....Gary
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Old Aug 22, 2013, 12:38 PM   #2
ChrisA
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Why did

Quote:
Originally Posted by MiniD3 View Post
...
After reading all the help options, apparently, even with vaults set up, the masters do not get backed up?...

This is not true. TM backs up the Aperture library. But what is in your library? Aperture can be set up to use either "managed" or "referenced" image files. Managed images are stored inside the Aperture library and referenced files are any place you like, scattered all over multiple disks if you want.

It looks like you might be using referenced images and they are still in iPhoto's space. In that case the Aperture library includes any references ("links" to you UNIX people)

Time Machine will dutifully backup whatever you have.

The best way to backp you images is to first use Time Machine. Giving TM two drives is smart. Each drive needs to be quite a lot larger than the total amount of data you have so the TM has room for older file versions. I'd say 1.5 or 2x larger.

Then in addition use "vaults" and keep those in some safe place, like a fire safe in another building.


As a general rule, to keep data safe you must do as a MINIMUM the following
1) Data needs to always exist on at least three different physical media (RAID counts only as one media) This must be true even during a backup, so if your backup system erases old data you need four copies.
2) Data must exist in at least two different geographical locations, at ALL times so you bring the new copy to the offsite and then take the off site copy home. So you never have all the copies in one building.

That is the minimum. Other rules are to continuously test your backup media. And retire it after a few years.

All this is expensive and it gets real expensive if you have more data than can fit on a larger size disk drive. Because then you need multiple RAID boxes. So people don't bother.

Rememebr the #1 cause of data loss is NOT a failed disk. Theft of the equipment is near the top, then fire and floods and power surges. All of these will also kill you Time Machine backups. Top of the list is operator of software errors. These can kill your backups too.

If digital photos are to last 20 or more years you really needs to work at it. My gues is that in 50 years there will be almost no 50 year old digital photos
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Old Aug 22, 2013, 06:27 PM   #3
MiniD3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisA View Post
Why did




This is not true. TM backs up the Aperture library. But what is in your library? Aperture can be set up to use either "managed" or "referenced" image files. Managed images are stored inside the Aperture library and referenced files are any place you like, scattered all over multiple disks if you want.

It looks like you might be using referenced images and they are still in iPhoto's space. In that case the Aperture library includes any references ("links" to you UNIX people)

Time Machine will dutifully backup whatever you have.

The best way to backp you images is to first use Time Machine. Giving TM two drives is smart. Each drive needs to be quite a lot larger than the total amount of data you have so the TM has room for older file versions. I'd say 1.5 or 2x larger.

Then in addition use "vaults" and keep those in some safe place, like a fire safe in another building.


As a general rule, to keep data safe you must do as a MINIMUM the following
1) Data needs to always exist on at least three different physical media (RAID counts only as one media) This must be true even during a backup, so if your backup system erases old data you need four copies.
2) Data must exist in at least two different geographical locations, at ALL times so you bring the new copy to the offsite and then take the off site copy home. So you never have all the copies in one building.

That is the minimum. Other rules are to continuously test your backup media. And retire it after a few years.

All this is expensive and it gets real expensive if you have more data than can fit on a larger size disk drive. Because then you need multiple RAID boxes. So people don't bother.

Rememebr the #1 cause of data loss is NOT a failed disk. Theft of the equipment is near the top, then fire and floods and power surges. All of these will also kill you Time Machine backups. Top of the list is operator of software errors. These can kill your backups too.

If digital photos are to last 20 or more years you really needs to work at it. My gues is that in 50 years there will be almost no 50 year old digital photos
Thank you Chris
Appears I have some more reading
Will do some more reading about "referenced" and "managed", this old brain hasn't got a grasp of this yet
What I would like to do is have both,
That is a "referenced" and a "managed" library
That is keep current year or at least 6 months worth of images in the system and keep all the rest on external drives
....Gary
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Old Aug 22, 2013, 09:38 PM   #4
Designer Dale
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Open Aperture and select Aperture Help from the drop-down Help in the menu bar. Read everything under the first selection titled Aperture Basics and Components of Aperture. Backup is explained in the second to the last entry in the left column. This is the missing manual for Aperture.

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Old Aug 23, 2013, 02:02 AM   #5
MiniD3
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Thank you Dale!

Have a bit of reading ahead of me!
Much appreciated,
Regards,
Gary
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Old Aug 23, 2013, 07:42 PM   #6
MiniD3
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Heads-up on progress

>Dale
Thanks for pointing me in the right direction
Finally god my head around the Referenced and Managed
Mine was Managed, not by skill but good luck

>Chris
Also, many thanks for your advice and clarity
I just had too much to loose to make a mistake

Regards,
Gary
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Old Aug 23, 2013, 08:59 PM   #7
flynz4
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My understanding is that Time Machine does automatically exclude some information from its backups. For example, it does not backup system caches because they would automatically re-create and would otherwise just fillup the backup with useless data that never needs to be recovered.

Specifically to Aperture, I think that TM does not backup previews and maybe not thumbnails, since the program can automatically regenerate both.

Without any doubt... aperture will back up masters... as long as they are located on the drive being backed up... and are not otherwise being excluded.

/Jim
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Old Aug 23, 2013, 09:04 PM   #8
anonnymouse
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The ApertureExpert website is a treasure trove of knowledge as well.

I'm just a user of the site. Zero affiliation with them.

Honest
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Old Aug 24, 2013, 04:18 AM   #9
MiniD3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by flynz4 View Post
My understanding is that Time Machine does automatically exclude some information from its backups. For example, it does not backup system caches because they would automatically re-create and would otherwise just fillup the backup with useless data that never needs to be recovered.

Specifically to Aperture, I think that TM does not backup previews and maybe not thumbnails, since the program can automatically regenerate both.

Without any doubt... aperture will back up masters... as long as they are located on the drive being backed up... and are not otherwise being excluded.

/Jim
Tks Jim,
Actually I'm also going to back-up my full CF cards as well, thats the mission tonight
....Gary

----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by anonnymouse View Post
The ApertureExpert website is a treasure trove of knowledge as well.

I'm just a user of the site. Zero affiliation with them.

Honest
Tks anonnymouse,
Im a user there also,
Found a lot of info there plus got Joseph's video as well
Although the Video covers vaults, I still didn't get a grasp until I read Aperture help, that did the trick! Dale had the right idea!
being a past windows user, the help sections were not much help
But the Apple help was great
....Gary
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Old Aug 24, 2013, 09:01 AM   #10
flynz4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by anonnymouse View Post
The ApertureExpert website is a treasure trove of knowledge as well.

I'm just a user of the site. Zero affiliation with them.

Honest
I recently purchased all 24 of the training videos from ApertureExpert.com. They are really fantastic. Highly recommended.

I started with two of Robert Boyer's ebooks ("File Management" & "Organization") which I think should be in every Aperture user's library. Those totally set me straight. Then I followed up with Joseph's Aperture Expert videos... and even as a self proclaimed "aperture enthusiast"... I continue to learn much more in every episode just watching Aperture in action.

I would recommend the above to anyone starting with Aperture. Aperture is such a powerful application and getting the foundation down solid will save you unbelievable amount of time.

/Jim
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Old Aug 24, 2013, 09:12 AM   #11
MiniD3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by flynz4 View Post
I recently purchased all 24 of the training videos from ApertureExpert.com. They are really fantastic. Highly recommended.

I started with two of Robert Boyer's ebooks ("File Management" & "Organization") which I think should be in every Aperture user's library. Those totally set me straight. Then I followed up with Joseph's Aperture Expert videos... and even as a self proclaimed "aperture enthusiast"... I continue to learn much more in every episode just watching Aperture in action.

I would recommend the above to anyone starting with Aperture. Aperture is such a powerful application and getting the foundation down solid will save you unbelievable amount of time.

/Jim
Yes Jim, that's the route I'm heading
Very happy with how adjustments are going,
What do you suggest for correcting distortion?
Unfortunately, the images I corrected in Nikon CNX2 just loose the adjustment as soon as I open them in Aperture
....Gary
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Old Aug 24, 2013, 09:40 AM   #12
flynz4
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Originally Posted by MiniD3 View Post
Yes Jim, that's the route I'm heading
Very happy with how adjustments are going,
What do you suggest for correcting distortion?
Unfortunately, the images I corrected in Nikon CNX2 just loose the adjustment as soon as I open them in Aperture
....Gary
I've tried PT Lens... but truthfully, I just don't use it.

My basic workflow is:
  • Import directly into Aperture (currently managed)
  • Use a "yyyy-mm-dd project name" project structure
  • Apply location information to the project for non-pre-geotagged photos
  • Adjust time/data if multiple cameras were used and not pre-synced (to sync the timeline)
  • Tag, Stack Pick, Rate
  • Round-trip through Nik Software for any 4 star pictures, assigning a color label, and often upgrading to 5 star.
  • Reformat SD card (in camera) once backup is completed up to three locations, using three separate programs.

/Jim
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Old Aug 24, 2013, 09:54 AM   #13
MiniD3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by flynz4 View Post
I've tried PT Lens... but truthfully, I just don't use it.

My basic workflow is:
  • Import directly into Aperture (currently managed)
  • Use a "yyyy-mm-dd project name" project structure
  • Apply location information to the project for non-pre-geotagged photos
  • Adjust time/data if multiple cameras were used and not pre-synced (to sync the timeline)
  • Tag, Stack Pick, Rate
  • Round-trip through Nik Software for any 4 star pictures, assigning a color label, and often upgrading to 5 star.
  • Reformat SD card (in camera) once backup is completed up to three locations, using three separate programs.

/Jim
I also went for the ymd option as well, got that from Joseph's video
Also now have back-ups of original raw on 2 external drive as well as 2 vaults
"appears" to be working OK
I have not been game to format 10 CF cards until now
Hopefully I have all the bases covered
....Gary
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Old Aug 24, 2013, 10:25 AM   #14
flynz4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MiniD3 View Post
I also went for the ymd option as well, got that from Joseph's video
Also now have back-ups of original raw on 2 external drive as well as 2 vaults
"appears" to be working OK
I have not been game to format 10 CF cards until now
Hopefully I have all the bases covered
....Gary
I started the yyyy-mm-dd before I saw Joseph's videos. One thing that I liked was he added the "|" to his... so you get that nice delineation in the projects:

2013-07-04 | Independence Day BBQ
2013-07-07 | Crater Lake Aerial Project
2013-08-17 | Jimmy Buffet Concert - Washington DC
2013-08-24 | Hood-to-Coast finale at Seaside

I just like the look of it better with the vertical line... but I have not gone in to rename all of my projects.

/Jim
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Old Aug 24, 2013, 08:54 PM   #15
MiniD3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by flynz4 View Post
I started the yyyy-mm-dd before I saw Joseph's videos. One thing that I liked was he added the "|" to his... so you get that nice delineation in the projects:

2013-07-04 | Independence Day BBQ
2013-07-07 | Crater Lake Aerial Project
2013-08-17 | Jimmy Buffet Concert - Washington DC
2013-08-24 | Hood-to-Coast finale at Seaside

I just like the look of it better with the vertical line... but I have not gone in to rename all of my projects.

/Jim
Yes, you guessed it! I forgot as well
Might fix that now
....Gary
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