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Old Sep 15, 2013, 10:52 AM   #351
Rogifan
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shaun, UK View Post
Each to their own I guess. For me the lighter the better. If you want to make it heavier just add a case. Like I said I think the 5C is priced too close to the 5S. Let's just see how many 5C's they sell shall we.
It is weird that the 32GB 5C costs the same (on contract at least) as the 16GB 5S. What's up with that?
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Old Sep 15, 2013, 11:11 AM   #352
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I would be shocked if most carriers don't offer the 5c for free. Sure it starts off at $99 but shortly after launch it should be free with a two year agreement. $199 to high for the 5s? I don't think so.. iPhones aren't priced any different then any other phone on the market now with the 5c they can compete with android by giving the phones away for free. I believe thats why the iPhone 4 is still a big seller, the price.
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Old Sep 15, 2013, 11:24 AM   #353
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remember the iphone 5C is replacing what iPhone 5 would've held onto. Don't think of them differently. This time last year did any of you think "OMG iPhone 4S will be free soon enough, just you see!" "I don't get why 32gb iphone 4S is just as expensive as an iphone 5"
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Old Sep 15, 2013, 11:45 AM   #354
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Originally Posted by Macboy Pro View Post
Maps may have been a problem but SIRI is fantastic. I use it ALL THE TIME and so do most of the people I know.
Yeah I am sure most people just ignored him when he said Siri was a flop, no one else on the planet actually believes that.
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Old Sep 15, 2013, 01:20 PM   #355
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Originally Posted by numlock View Post
has apple ever released on contract sales vs non contract sales?
Surely you are not implying that the majority of iPhones are sold off-contract? Although the iPhone is likely sold off-contract more than other phones, it is common knowledge that the majority of phones are sold in a subscription model.


Quote:
Originally Posted by numlock View Post
i cannot agree with your that they have phones that go from $0-600 when it has that contact caveat. ive always had the same view on the older/lesser devices and their price. as an investment its crazy to pay apple that x amount less and get a much lesser device. nobody is talking about a low quality phone. just as the quality of the original iphone didnt dip when they lowered the price. nobody is talking about a $200 crap. the $300-400 range is fine. i read it but the iphone 5s is still the original iphone compared to its competitors rather than the current mba vs its competitors.
I'm having trouble understanding what point you are trying to make here.

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Originally Posted by numlock View Post
i live in europe and the 5s and 5c will be painfully close in price. and there will be no reason whatsoever to buy the 5c.
There are already reports that carriers are willing to price the 5C lower. E.g. the WSJ reports that carriers are pricing the 5C at $79, while the lowest tier 5S is priced at $199. This is not painfully close. The market in Europe is more competitive due to the fact that the carriers are all on the same GSM bands, so we will certainly see the same behaviour here.

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Originally Posted by numlock View Post
i think you are very generous in your calculating of the cost price of the 5c. i dont think its fair to combine the cost of the 5 and 5c. then you might as well as add the cost of every iphone release to the 5s.
Besides the enclosure, the 5C is essentially the same as the 5. It is therefore fair to compare these in terms of costs. I even indicated that there might be some variations, but it is a fair comparison. I'm not adding or combining anything. I don't see your point.


Quote:
Originally Posted by numlock View Post
why should other market regions be any different? apple loses marketshare because they are too slow and too rigid.
If you think markets are the same than I suggest you to read a bit up on strategy and marketing. There are huge differences between markets. Spending behaviour, consumer preferences and wages vary wildly. That's why it is impossible to already make any assumptions on the success of a mobile phone that is not even on the market yet.

Quote:
Originally Posted by numlock View Post
apple prices themselves out of a alot of people hands and their prices for older/lesser devices is imo crazy.
Again, you make assumptions that are not backed up by facts. The fact that the 5C is already sold out in pre-orders shows that Apple is not that crazy in terms of pricing strategy.

Quote:
Originally Posted by numlock View Post
you are acting like the 5c is priced so much cheaper than the 5s that it gives them this crazy range. i massively disagree with you there.
I'm not acting anything. I'm basing my argumentation on fact. The price of a 5C is now $79. The 5s is priced at $199 on contract. Are you disagreeing with me that these are different prices? The range I refer to is based on the whole product portfolio from the 4s ($0) to the 5s 64 Gb ($399). There is something here for most consumer segments. Although off-contract the prices are indeed closer, the vast majority of global consumers buy a smartphone in a subscription package.

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Originally Posted by numlock View Post
we have as much info to judge that as anything else discussed here. i just put on my buying hat and think what would i do
And here is the big mistake that you make. You cannot make assumptions on the whole market based on your own personal opinion! Tastes and customs are different everywhere! People in Scotland eat haggis, the French eat escargots, Germans prefer german cars, while Japanese favor japanese cars. How can you claim a knowledge on market behaviour based on your "buying hat"?

Quote:
The 5C could have been a best-seller as a second-tier phone if Apple had nailed the optimal price-point.... in other words, it could have been the spiritual successor to the iPhone 4/4S. Unfortunately, it seems like they priced it a bit too high.
i think you misread things.
He is talking in the past-tense. "could have been". My argumentation was that he cannot have concluded on the 5C's success while it isn't even on the market yet. Actually reality has caught up with him / her as the initial supply of the 5C has already sold out in pre-orders. I'm not misreading anything.

You can see here that I'm quite happy to respond in detail, but if you want to continue this discussion than please come up with some fact based support for your assumptions.
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Old Sep 15, 2013, 01:21 PM   #356
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Originally Posted by aapplephone View Post
looks like yellow is popular color
Or not. They simply could have produced less of yellow.
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Old Sep 15, 2013, 01:41 PM   #357
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Originally Posted by Ochyandkaren View Post
So, you did not watch the launch.
That is not ordinary plastic, and yes it did require R&D.
I'm sorry they fed you with the crap at the keynote. Phones already have polycarbonate shells. All they did was add that gloss coating. Some R&D...
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Old Sep 15, 2013, 03:06 PM   #358
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Quote:
Originally Posted by peterdevries View Post
Surely you are not implying that the majority of iPhones are sold off-contract? Although the iPhone is likely sold off-contract more than other phones, it is common knowledge that the majority of phones are sold in a subscription model.
you have an issue with questions and peoples opinions, jump to conclusion as to what their intent is and get very defensive. i was asking a general question to which i did not have the answer for. clearly you dont have a factually based answer to that as well.


Quote:
Originally Posted by peterdevries View Post
I'm having trouble understanding what point you are trying to make here.
first of i was disagreeing with you that they really had phones covering the $0-$600 range.

secondly you mentioned $199 unsubsidized (dont why you picked that amount) and i responding by saying imo that i think apple could offer a very good device in the $300-$400 range.

the rest of that segment seems to have been messed up in this whole quoting process (am i doing it wrong or is there no quick and easy way to quote multiple segments from the same post?) this is tedious.

the last answer was to the comment on the jobs biography and their pricing ideology and i merely mentioned the imac and mba as products that are favorably priced (when updated) consider what they are.


Quote:
Originally Posted by peterdevries View Post
There are already reports that carriers are willing to price the 5C lower. E.g. the WSJ reports that carriers are pricing the 5C at $79, while the lowest tier 5S is priced at $199. This is not painfully close. The market in Europe is more competitive due to the fact that the carriers are all on the same GSM bands, so we will certainly see the same behaviour here.
im more concerned about the price of the device unloked and without contract. but in the bolded part you are an making unsupported assumption based on behavior and strategy in another continent.



Quote:
Originally Posted by peterdevries View Post
Besides the enclosure, the 5C is essentially the same as the 5. It is therefore fair to compare these in terms of costs. I even indicated that there might be some variations, but it is a fair comparison. I'm not adding or combining anything. I don't see your point.
i misread your post. but however the cost estimates for the 5 were for it a year ago? and also of course the extra $100-$150 is purely conjecture on your part.


Quote:
Originally Posted by peterdevries View Post
If you think markets are the same than I suggest you to read a bit up on strategy and marketing. There are huge differences between markets. Spending behaviour, consumer preferences and wages vary wildly. That's why it is impossible to already make any assumptions on the success of a mobile phone that is not even on the market yet.
i ask a question and you cannot answer it factually. i never made any assumption like that but please tell me what nationalities are more inclined to spend almost the same amount for a year old device as a new device?

is there any market where the iphone is gaining marketshare? if not you dont think its time to think they have to look at their pricing of the "cheaper" devices? i personally think so.

if its impossible to make any assumption at present time why do you get so worked up over a person saying the thought they are pricing it too high and what it "could have been"?



Quote:
Originally Posted by peterdevries View Post
Again, you make assumptions that are not backed up by facts. The fact that the 5C is already sold out in pre-orders shows that Apple is not that crazy in terms of pricing strategy.
wait so all colors in all sizes are sold out?



Quote:
Originally Posted by peterdevries View Post
I'm not acting anything. I'm basing my argumentation on fact. The price of a 5C is now $79. The 5s is priced at $199 on contract. Are you disagreeing with me that these are different prices? The range I refer to is based on the whole product portfolio from the 4s ($0) to the 5s 64 Gb ($399). There is something here for most consumer segments. Although off-contract the prices are indeed closer, the vast majority of global consumers buy a smartphone in a subscription package.
the first thing you did in this post was to acknowledge you had pretty much no idea how the iphone sales were split between contract and non contract sales yet now you are making an unsupported assumption. and its painfully clear that i am pretty focused on the off contract prices.

btw in your previous post you were quoting off contract prices yet now you quote on contract prices.


Quote:
Originally Posted by peterdevries View Post
And here is the big mistake that you make. You cannot make assumptions on the whole market based on your own personal opinion! Tastes and customs are different everywhere! People in Scotland eat haggis, the French eat escargots, Germans prefer german cars, while Japanese favor japanese cars. How can you claim a knowledge on market behaviour based on your "buying hat"?
i thought this was a forum where people expressed their ideas, thoughts and opinions. perhaps you would enjoy a gallup poll more. i dont recall saying anything where i masked my opinion as a fact.

again perhaps you can tell me what nationalities are more inclined to spend almost the same amount for a year old device as a new device?



Quote:
Originally Posted by peterdevries View Post
He is talking in the past-tense. "could have been". My argumentation was that he cannot have concluded on the 5C's success while it isn't even on the market yet. Actually reality has caught up with him / her as the initial supply of the 5C has already sold out in pre-orders. I'm not misreading anything.

You can see here that I'm quite happy to respond in detail, but if you want to continue this discussion than please come up with some fact based support for your assumptions.
so you are backtracking from your previous post that he said it would be unsuccessful which was of course pure fabrication?


and pricing it cheaper (off contract at least) would make it less desirable?


you have no facts yourself to back up anything you say. you mention the fact it sold out but we have no idea about the supply or other variables so to base anything of that and that alone is ridiculous.

i am more than happy to continue to express my view that i think pricing a year old device so closely to a new one is absurd. whether it sells out is not relevant.
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Old Sep 15, 2013, 03:14 PM   #359
Klae17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by g88bo View Post
Your argument is invalid. You're comparing two products from a different time, while he compares two things from the same time period.
iPhone 5 vs the heavy Lumina then.

----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by iSayuSay View Post
I never wrote 5C being more luxurious. I hate 5C colors and choice of polycarbonate.

I said 5S would be more substantial if only it uses elongated 4S design. Keep the material and concept intact. IMO the 4 and 4S is a reference design even Apple decided to keep the concept with the 5 and 5S, too bad they use Aluminum instead of keep the stainless steel. And great design lasts forever
Here is your original post:

The biggest selling point for the 5c, and the reason I preordered one, is the weight.

FINALLY, I can get an iPhone that's at least CLOSE to the weight of my iPhone 4. I would have paid extra for the 5c over the 5s just for the extra .7 ounces (altho it's still .25 ounces lighter than an iPhone 4).

Interesting that the polycarbonate version will feel more valuable and luxurious than the aluminum "flagship".

I don't see substantial. I see luxurious and valuable.

They can't keep the same design over and over. The 3G was a nice design but I'm glad the 4 came out.
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Old Sep 15, 2013, 03:37 PM   #360
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rogifan View Post
It is weird that the 32GB 5C costs the same (on contract at least) as the 16GB 5S. What's up with that?
It's not weird. That's the basic Apple pricing. They are keeping the same pricing model, no matter how many times they cut corners. Of course, the best part is having the same price for a great phone no matter how innovative it is compared to the last one.
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Old Sep 15, 2013, 04:32 PM   #361
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Originally Posted by PedroCst View Post
Remember the 5C as the greatest flop from Apple in the recent years.
This comment won't be remembered as fondly as the risible dire predictions of failure for the 2007 iPhone on launch, but it will be just as wrong.

The 5c will be wildly successful and completely flummox the opposition.
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Old Sep 15, 2013, 04:46 PM   #362
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Originally Posted by iScott428 View Post
... because kids and girls are going to eat these color/color combos like candy on halloween.
I suppose you mean by 'kids' young people who are old enough for a phone. Seeing as 'kids' means both male and female, I am puzzled by your use of 'girls' in your category of people who will buy the iPhone.
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Old Sep 15, 2013, 05:14 PM   #363
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Originally Posted by Shaun, UK View Post
I take your point but that wasn't what I was trying to say. I don't see why you would buy the 5C instead of the 5S. You're not saving much and you end up with a much better spec with the 5S.

If you really want a cheaper plastic phone then you would probably buy a Nokia or Samsung, etc which would work out a lot cheaper. I think the 5S will do well (I'm going to get one myself) but I don't think the 5C will do well.

Look at the MacBooks. IMHO the MBA looks much nicer than the MBP but the MBP accounts for 70% of MacBook sales despite it's higher price.
Perhaps, just for giggles, you consider that people may not want a 'cheaper plastic phone', they may want a less expensive plastic iPhone. People should
Consider that others, who are buying the 5C, aren't stupid, and can do math just as well as they can. Consider that they have other needs that they are satisfying with their iPhone purchase. There is more to these decisions than dollars and cents.

I find the people on this forum who think they know what's best for everyone else on the planet to be detestably egotistical.
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Old Sep 15, 2013, 06:20 PM   #364
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Originally Posted by \-V-/ View Post
I dropped mine the second I took it out of the box. I'm never opening an iPhone box again without a case ready. :P

It's pretty slippery... but I'm also a klutz.
Last thursday i had to take my belkin case off my 5 as the headphone jack port stopped letting the headphone's buttons work. So i had the 5 naked, which was fine and quite novel for me as i always have a case. The novelty carried on over the weekend and i tried to get used to it. But i couldn't. I stood in the kitchen using the phone (with the floor being tiles) and the phone felt so bloody slippery! I had to put the case back on because if id dropped it and broken it, there goes the resale price.

The iphone 5 and now 5S are slim, they are lite. I know they're meant to be "premium", but when does premium become useless? "Heres a new Ferrari. Its made of glass, so its premium, but watch out for bumps in the road or the thing will smash" So everyone forks out for a case to cover the thin, lite and premium phone!
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Old Sep 15, 2013, 06:24 PM   #365
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Originally Posted by captain kaos View Post
Last thursday i had to take my belkin case off my 5 as the headphone jack port stopped letting the headphone's buttons work. So i had the 5 naked, which was fine and quite novel for me as i always have a case. The novelty carried on over the weekend and i tried to get used to it. But i couldn't. I stood in the kitchen using the phone (with the floor being tiles) and the phone felt so bloody slippery! I had to put the case back on because if id dropped it and broken it, there goes the resale price.

The iphone 5 and now 5S are slim, they are lite. I know they're meant to be "premium", but when does premium become useless? "Heres a new Ferrari. Its made of glass, so its premium, but watch out for bumps in the road or the thing will smash" So everyone forks out for a case to cover the thin, lite and premium phone!
It takes a lot to break the phone. I dropped mine from about 5 feet and watched it cartwheel for 10 feet and then slide across the floor. It got a few dents on the corners and that's about it.
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Old Sep 15, 2013, 07:47 PM   #366
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Originally Posted by Klae17 View Post
....

The biggest selling point for the 5c, and the reason I preordered one, is the weight.

FINALLY, I can get an iPhone that's at least CLOSE to the weight of my iPhone 4. I would have paid extra for the 5c over the 5s just for the extra .7 ounces (altho it's still .25 ounces lighter than an iPhone 4).

Interesting that the polycarbonate version will feel more valuable and luxurious than the aluminum "flagship".

I don't see substantial. I see luxurious and valuable.

They can't keep the same design over and over. The 3G was a nice design but I'm glad the 4 came out.
It wasn't even my post. I was simply replying to your post comparing a huge, old 1990s computer to an MBA which is irrelevant to compare regarding weight and substantial measure.

Here's your original post:

Quote:
Originally Posted by scoobydoo99 View Post
The biggest selling point for the 5c, and the reason I preordered one, is the weight.

FINALLY, I can get an iPhone that's at least CLOSE to the weight of my iPhone 4. I would have paid extra for the 5c over the 5s just for the extra .7 ounces (altho it's still .25 ounces lighter than an iPhone 4).

Interesting that the polycarbonate version will feel more valuable and luxurious than the aluminum "flagship".
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Old Sep 16, 2013, 03:16 AM   #367
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Originally Posted by StyxMaker View Post
I find the people on this forum who think they know what's best for everyone else on the planet to be detestably egotistical.
Nice. Just expressing my view. Maybe you shouldn't come on to an open forum like this if you can't take opposing views.
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Old Sep 16, 2013, 03:49 AM   #368
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According to a friend who works in customer services for EE in the UK, it was a piss-poor launch for 5C pre-orders on Friday.

Any calls they got in for ordering were about the 5S....complete lack of appetite for the 5C
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Old Sep 16, 2013, 08:25 AM   #369
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shipping date for most of contract free 5C's is 9/25 on apple website
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Old Sep 16, 2013, 08:05 PM   #370
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Originally Posted by Xgm541 View Post
Sure thing. All those ads i see on TV and let's not forget the halftime show at the last football championships... those weren't paid by apple. Some good Samaritan must've paid for those.

Do yourself a favour and look up how much Apple spends on marketing relative to its competitors. Apple doesn't need to create lines to generate sales. Lines are generated because they're really good at creating products that sell well.
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Old Sep 18, 2013, 08:34 AM   #371
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Do yourself a favour and look up how much Apple spends on marketing relative to its competitors. Apple doesn't need to create lines to generate sales. Lines are generated because they're really good at creating products that sell well.
I did not say they need lines to generate sales. I said it helps them a lot.
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Old Sep 19, 2013, 10:06 AM   #372
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I suppose you mean by 'kids' young people who are old enough for a phone. Seeing as 'kids' means both male and female, I am puzzled by your use of 'girls' in your category of people who will buy the iPhone.
Kids would be ages 5-16 and all girls regardless of age. Not sure what is confusing about my predictions about demographic sales. Replace "girls" with "women" when they reach age 18. [COLOR="#808080"]
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