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Old Feb 20, 2013, 03:00 AM   #26
benwiggy
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brian Y View Post
Fusion doesn't give you any control at all.
Ah. The myth of control.

OS X is controlling all sorts of things that people used to do manually in days gone by. And it does them better than anyone could. (More frequently, more in-depth.) And it lets me get on with actually using my computer for important things like watching videos of kittens, or cataloguing the human genome.

"Remember the days when you had to move files by hand between media of two different speeds..?"

That's now up there with allocating memory for applications; managing SCSI peripheral chains; making daily tape drive backups; and, since Lion, remembering to save files.

Last edited by benwiggy; Feb 20, 2013 at 03:05 AM.
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Old Feb 20, 2013, 07:09 AM   #27
Brian Y
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Quote:
Originally Posted by benwiggy View Post
Ah. The myth of control.

OS X is controlling all sorts of things that people used to do manually in days gone by. And it does them better than anyone could. (More frequently, more in-depth.) And it lets me get on with actually using my computer for important things like watching videos of kittens, or cataloguing the human genome.

"Remember the days when you had to move files by hand between media of two different speeds..?"

That's now up there with allocating memory for applications; managing SCSI peripheral chains; making daily tape drive backups; and, since Lion, remembering to save files.
We're all allowed out opinion - me included. Okay?
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Old Feb 20, 2013, 08:32 AM   #28
gnopx
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my problem is photoshop scratch file, i need it to be on ssd, it's created by PS on every app launch and grows often to 50gigs

this cause my fusion hating, because i need 60gigs free on my ssd for PS scratch.

there are only two ways.

1) Un-fusion the drives (not officialy supported by apple)

2) partition the fusion in 186-942 (officialy supported by apple) and use the first partition for os & apps (60gigs maximum) to keep 60gb of ssd free. (60gb of hdd are wasted but it's a minor cons.
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Old Feb 20, 2013, 09:19 AM   #29
benwiggy
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gnopx View Post
my problem is photoshop scratch file, i need it to be on ssd, it's created by PS on every app launch and grows often to 50gigs
this cause my fusion hating, because i need 60gigs free on my ssd for PS scratch.
1. Are you sure you NEED the scratch file on the SSD? Have you got any performance data suggesting that Fusion will hinder Photoshop?
Traditionally, best performance advice for PS scratch is to put it on a different volume from your system. So that would be your 5400rpm HDD in a non-Fusion setup.

2. Are you sure that you need ALL of the scratch file on the SSD?
Fusion can allocate blocks of the scratch file to different devices. So you may get the most frequently used blocks on the SSD anyway.

3. Are you sure that Fusion drive WON'T allocate the scratch file to the SSD, if that's something you do regularly?

I'm not saying that Fusion is a universal panacea, but I think it's important whenever any new technology comes along to check that any assumptions about it are true. I've been using Creative Suite 6 solidly, with over 200Gb on the volume, and I've not seen any evidence of any slowness by the HDD being called into service.
I would at least try it for a while before you split it.

Last edited by benwiggy; Feb 20, 2013 at 09:26 AM.
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Old Feb 20, 2013, 09:25 AM   #30
philipma1957
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Quote:
Originally Posted by benwiggy View Post
1. Are you sure you NEED the scratch file on the SSD? Do you need the high speed retrieval and storage rates of SSD for what is a form of virtual memory?
Have you got any performance data suggesting that Fusion will hinder Photoshop?
Traditionally, best performance advice for PS scratch is to put it on a different volume from your system. So that would be your 5400rpm HDD in a non-Fusion setup.

2. Are you sure that you need ALL of the scratch file on the SSD?
Fusion can allocate blocks of the scratch file to different devices. So you may get the most frequently used blocks on the SSD anyway.

3. Are you sure that Fusion drive WON'T allocate the scratch file to the SSD, if that's something you do regularly?


If he had a diy fusion with a big ssd he would get what he needs from fusion. my complaint with fusion is apple does not offer a choice of ssd size 128 ssd 256 ssd 512 ssd all with a 1tb hdd should be offered.


Apple offers 4gb ram 8gb ram and 16gb ram which are super easy to diy .

They should offer the 3 ssd sizes for fusion which are not easy to diy.
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Old Feb 20, 2013, 10:11 AM   #31
Mike in Kansas
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Location: Metro Kansas City
Quote:
Originally Posted by gnopx View Post
my problem is photoshop scratch file, i need it to be on ssd, it's created by PS on every app launch and grows often to 50gigs

this cause my fusion hating, because i need 60gigs free on my ssd for PS scratch.

there are only two ways.

1) Un-fusion the drives (not officialy supported by apple)

2) partition the fusion in 186-942 (officialy supported by apple) and use the first partition for os & apps (60gigs maximum) to keep 60gb of ssd free. (60gb of hdd are wasted but it's a minor cons.
This would be a GREAT experiment to see how core storage handles the scratch file. I'm not familiar enough with PS to know how the file is created, named, over-written, etc. But it would be interesting to see how FD manages the scratch file(s) if you install PS on a non-partitioned FD arrangement. If they are accessed enough, they could/should get moved to the SSD portion of the array. If they get erased each time you close the app, it may have to "re-learn" over time; however, if the same file it written to time and time again, it may get moved.

Would you consider running this experiment? You can install everything on FD with no partition, run it for a while & record your results, and then do the same thing with a partitioned FD arrangement. If you either have iStat Menus, or download and install it for the 2 week free trial, you can see the independent I/O of each drive within the FD array. When I launch apps, I can look at the disk activity history to see where that app, or portions of that app, reside - SSD, HDD or both.

----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by philipma1957 View Post
If he had a diy fusion with a big ssd he would get what he needs from fusion. my complaint with fusion is apple does not offer a choice of ssd size 128 ssd 256 ssd 512 ssd all with a 1tb hdd should be offered.


Apple offers 4gb ram 8gb ram and 16gb ram which are super easy to diy .

They should offer the 3 ssd sizes for fusion which are not easy to diy.
Agree. And they may with the next iteration. I'm sure you have been following Apple hardware for quite a while, as have I, and you surely see their pattern in continual incremental improvement over time. It's what keeps us wanting to buy "next year's model" when "this year's model" would still be fine for 4+ years down the road! They never offer up the best solution initially - they eek it out over a period of time.
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Old Feb 20, 2013, 10:14 AM   #32
philipma1957
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike in Kansas View Post
This would be a GREAT experiment to see how core storage handles the scratch file. I'm not familiar enough with PS to know how the file is created, named, over-written, etc. But it would be interesting to see how FD manages the scratch file(s) if you install PS on a non-partitioned FD arrangement. If they are accessed enough, they could/should get moved to the SSD portion of the array. If they get erased each time you close the app, it may have to "re-learn" over time; however, if the same file it written to time and time again, it may get moved.

Would you consider running this experiment? You can install everything on FD with no partition, run it for a while & record your results, and then do the same thing with a partitioned FD arrangement. If you either have iStat Menus, or download and install it for the 2 week free trial, you can see the independent I/O of each drive within the FD array. When I launch apps, I can look at the disk activity history to see where that app, or portions of that app, reside - SSD, HDD or both.

----------



Agree. And they may with the next iteration. I'm sure you have been following Apple hardware for quite a while, as have I, and you surely see their pattern in continual incremental improvement over time. It's what keeps us wanting to buy "next year's model" when "this year's model" would still be fine for 4+ years down the road! They never offer up the best solution initially - they eek it out over a period of time.
right on spot. I have seen this time and time again.
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