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Old Jul 16, 2013, 05:02 PM   #301
Solomani
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Originally Posted by GermanyChris View Post
They probably knew what he had anyway. This man is going to disappear especially in SA
He will join Hitler, Elvis, Michael Jackson, Al Capone, and Carmen Sandiego. Somewhere in an underground hotel in Buenos Aires. Having fun, laughing it up, and smoking Cuban cigars.
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Old Jul 16, 2013, 05:06 PM   #302
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Originally Posted by Solomani View Post
He will join Hitler, Elvis, Michael Jackson, Al Capone, and Carmen Sandiego. Somewhere in an underground hotel in Buenos Aires. Having fun, laughing it up, and smoking Cuban cigars.
No he'll die..

We have 3rd Group, DEA, and ATF down there and ya know people get hurt in places they're not familiar. He will not survive 2015
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Old Jul 16, 2013, 05:40 PM   #303
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No he'll die..

We have 3rd Group, DEA, and ATF down there and ya know people get hurt in places they're not familiar. He will not survive 2015
It's rather ironic that the U.S.A., which likes to consider itself to be the world's champion of human rights, would find itself "forced" to execute one of its own citizens without due process.
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Old Jul 16, 2013, 07:57 PM   #304
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Originally Posted by IGregory View Post
I am a free man in the good ole U.S.A. As to the surveillance activities they are done in accordance with the law, laws that our elected representatives saw fit to enact; many re-elected several times since passing those laws. Laws that our independent federal courts have said are constitutional. The problem with you and others in this thread is you want to ignore the real Constitution and substitute your own.
How is the FISA and the secret court it created constitutional in any possible manner?

You have a lot of faith in your government and the people you elected into office. You fully believe they will look after your best interests. You are convinced they will uphold the Constitution.

All of that will come back to haunt you. Change. Hope. How pathetic and laughable.
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Old Jul 16, 2013, 11:40 PM   #305
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No he'll die..

We have 3rd Group, DEA, and ATF down there and ya know people get hurt in places they're not familiar. He will not survive 2015
he'll probably still be in russia in 2015.......if they were willing to let him go, he'd have left by now
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Old Jul 16, 2013, 11:59 PM   #306
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Originally Posted by IGregory View Post
I am a free man in the good ole U.S.A. As to the surveillance activities they are done in accordance with the law, laws that our elected representatives saw fit to enact; many re-elected several times since passing those laws. Laws that our independent federal courts have said are constitutional. The problem with you and others in this thread is you want to ignore the real Constitution and substitute your own...
Keep in mind that those laws were written and operated by in secret, so the American public has never really been informed on exactly what those elected officials are doing, nor have they yet been given a clear idea of what the FISA court, and other legal structures, means. In effect, you're arguing for a tautology: those lawyers writing the laws are following the law. I would also argue that this is the same government that convinced itself that torture at black sites around the world was also legal (while smartly keeping the whole operation under wraps) and that sending people out of the reach of the Constitution by sending them to the quasi-legal limbo of Guantanamo Bay, Cuba was also legal.

The lack of transparency on this process is troubling and hand-waving away the government's "trust us" qualifications seems naive.
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Old Jul 17, 2013, 05:24 PM   #307
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US lawmakers grill officials on NSA surveillance...

The Obama administration’s surveillance programs came under scrutiny at a House Judiciary Committee hearing held today (Wednesday). The hearing examined the administration’s use of its authority under the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act (FISA).

Here's a collection of brief excerpts from several different news articles published today:


In Surveillance Hearing, House Committee Blasts Government Over "Serious Violation" of Law

Quote:
WASHINGTON—Republican and Democrat lawmakers expressed renewed skepticism Wednesday about the scope of the government's surveillance operations and threatened to revoke authority for one of the programs recently disclosed by a former National Security Agency contractor that collects telephone records on tens of millions of Americans.

"I feel very uncomfortable about using aggregated…data on everybody,'' Rep. John Conyers, D-Mich., told Justice Department and NSA officials appearing before a House Judiciary Committee hearing.

"This is unsustainable, outrageous and must be stopped immediately.''
NSA spying under fire: 'You've got a problem'

Quote:
The Judiciary Committee's senior Democrat, Rep. John Conyers of Michigan, noted that the panel had "primary jurisdiction" over the surveillance laws that were the foundation for the NSA programs. Yet one lawmaker, Rep. Ted Poe, R-Texas, said some members of Congress wouldn't have known about the NSA surveillance without the sensational leaks: "Snowden, I don't like him at all, but we would never have known what happened if he hadn't told us."

Skepticism grows among lawmakers over NSA surveillance

Quote:
Rep. Spencer Bachus, R-Ala., said that while he was "satisfied'' that government officials overseeing the programs were acting in good faith, he said there was "concern that this could evolve into something quite different.''

"How do we keep this from evolving into an unchecked weapon that can be used against people's rights?''
Lawmakers of both parties voice doubts about NSA surveillance programs

Quote:
Rep. F. James Sensenbrenner Jr. (R-Wis.), who sponsored the Patriot Act, warned that there are not enough votes in the House now to renew Section 215 when the law is revisited. “It’s got to be changed,” he said. “And you’ve got to change how you operate 215 . . . or you’re not going to have it anymore.”

Rep. Zoe Lofgren (D-Calif.) concurred with Sensenbrenner’s assessment. “I think very clearly this program has gone off the tracks legally and needs to be reined in,” she said.
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Old Jul 17, 2013, 08:56 PM   #308
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Originally Posted by hulugu View Post
Keep in mind that those laws were written and operated by in secret, so the American public has never really been informed on exactly what those elected officials are doing, nor have they yet been given a clear idea of what the FISA court, and other legal structures, means. In effect, you're arguing for a tautology: those lawyers writing the laws are following the law. I would also argue that this is the same government that convinced itself that torture at black sites around the world was also legal (while smartly keeping the whole operation under wraps) and that sending people out of the reach of the Constitution by sending them to the quasi-legal limbo of Guantanamo Bay, Cuba was also legal.

The lack of transparency on this process is troubling and hand-waving away the government's "trust us" qualifications seems naive.
Precisely.

Complete distrust of the government = conspiracy theorist

Complete trust of the government = George Orwell's 1984

IGregory, trusting the government to do no wrong = you are not a free man.
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