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Old Feb 5, 2013, 05:55 AM   #51
apolloa
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As long as you can run Windows on a Mac (so you better hope Apple NEVER switch to ARM processors) then you will be able to 'game' on a Mac. It's simple. As for games on OSX well their is no support for the platform, I'm actually surprised Borderlands 2 is on it! Yet if you read the top 10 games, it reads the same as the iOS app store! Pointless..

So no, Mac gaming isn't dead, it never really got anywhere to begin with, install Windows and have fun because I don't think OSX has any gaming future.

I'm actually interested in the upcoming Lenovo Erazer X700 games PC. Don't know why, but Lenovo have a rep for well built machines and they have good pricing, wwwaaayyyyy cheaper then Apple.

Last edited by apolloa; Feb 5, 2013 at 06:09 AM.
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Old Feb 5, 2013, 07:31 AM   #52
antonis
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I believe that having the ability to run windows natively on a mac is used - at least partially -
as an alibi from game devs. and Apple as well. Game devs don't "have to" make decent ports, Apple doesn't "have to" push much on the gaming proportions of Mac.
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Old Feb 5, 2013, 08:22 AM   #53
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Originally Posted by antonis View Post
I believe that having the ability to run windows natively on a mac is used - at least partially -
as an alibi from game devs. and Apple as well. Game devs don't "have to" make decent ports, Apple doesn't "have to" push much on the gaming proportions of Mac.
I'm not looking forward to the day when Apple decides they don't have to support Window installs on Macs...
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Old Feb 5, 2013, 10:41 AM   #54
antonis
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I'm not looking forward to the day when Apple decides they don't have to support Window installs on Macs...
Me neither, it would hurt Apple for way more reasons beyond gaming. But still it is used as an easy way-out.
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Old Feb 5, 2013, 12:18 PM   #55
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I'm not looking forward to the day when Apple decides they don't have to support Window installs on Macs...
Nor me. However, with new Macs increasingly losing their optical drives & no Apple support for Windows installations via non-Apple external optical drives, it makes you wonder how long before they do drop support. After all, key software like Office continues to be available in Mac-native version.

I know Windows installation is still relatively easy for some people via ISO download & flash drive. However, there's also a growing number of less savvy users who've experienced considerable snags in what was once a very straightforward process.
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Old Feb 5, 2013, 02:45 PM   #56
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Nor me. However, with new Macs increasingly losing their optical drives & no Apple support for Windows installations via non-Apple external optical drives, it makes you wonder how long before they do drop support. After all, key software like Office continues to be available in Mac-native version.

I know Windows installation is still relatively easy for some people via ISO download & flash drive. However, there's also a growing number of less savvy users who've experienced considerable snags in what was once a very straightforward process.
Can't you use an external DVD player to install Windows from disk if it comes down to that?
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Old Feb 5, 2013, 05:06 PM   #57
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Can't you use an external DVD player to install Windows from disk if it comes down to that?
Yes, as long as it's either Apple's pricey superdrive, with a small number of exceptions (Asus was one mentioned that worked). But most appear not to work as Apple refuses to support them, for eg. the popular Samsungs'.

This is the impression given from various recent Bootcamp threads which are seeing a growing number of users seeking other solutions to installation after failing with non-Apple external drives. IMO, a fairly poor attitude from Apple here.
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Old Feb 5, 2013, 06:16 PM   #58
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Originally Posted by gregorsamsa View Post
Yes, as long as it's either Apple's pricey superdrive, with a small number of exceptions (Asus was one mentioned that worked). But most appear not to work as Apple refuses to support them, for eg. the popular Samsungs'.

This is the impression given from various recent Bootcamp threads which are seeing a growing number of users seeking other solutions to installation after failing with non-Apple external drives. IMO, a fairly poor attitude from Apple here.
I'd call that BS. When a company tries to hog all the action then they lose. It's as if you could only buy a branded Apple external hard drive to use with your Mac. If that ever happened, I'd start looking at my options.
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Old Feb 6, 2013, 02:49 AM   #59
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I'd call that BS. When a company tries to hog all the action then they lose. It's as if you could only buy a branded Apple external hard drive to use with your Mac. If that ever happened, I'd start looking at my options.
It may seem like BS, but I don't make this stuff up. There are loads of threads just like the one below.

The gist seems to be that Apple have stopped supporting Windows installations via most (but not all apparently) external drives, despite ceasing to include optical drives in most new Macs.

However, Apple's expensive superdrive is supported:

http://www.mac-forums.com/forums/run...dvd-drive.html
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Old Feb 6, 2013, 07:12 AM   #60
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Originally Posted by gregorsamsa View Post
It may seem like BS, but I don't make this stuff up. There are loads of threads just like the one below.

The gist seems to be that Apple have stopped supporting Windows installations via most (but not all apparently) external drives, despite ceasing to include optical drives in most new Macs.

However, Apple's expensive superdrive is supported:

http://www.mac-forums.com/forums/run...dvd-drive.html
Sorry... I was not saying what you said was BS, but if Apple forced customers to use their peripherals exclusively. I'm not an expert but I've used external drives before and don't remember having to install drivers. What kind of support would Apple have to provide that they are not?
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Old Feb 6, 2013, 11:17 AM   #61
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Sorry... I was not saying what you said was BS, but if Apple forced customers to use their peripherals exclusively. I'm not an expert but I've used external drives before and don't remember having to install drivers. What kind of support would Apple have to provide that they are not?
Thanks for the clarification, but all's cool!

I'm not sure what Apple need to do to support it, though I doubt it's anything major. But I can well imagine why they don't (more profiteering).

But a similar thread popped up on MacRumors earlier with another fix in post #15, which may be of interest:

forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?t=1201511
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Old Feb 6, 2013, 11:51 PM   #62
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Ummm do we know for sure (100%) that only the Apple SuperDrive is the only external disk drive that's currently compatible with (current) Macs? I highly doubt that, and this is why...

I recently purchased my 2012 iMac, and the first add-on I shopped for was the SuperDrive. I went to my local MacMall. Guess what? The sales rep showed me two... yes TWO... external 3rd-party branded optical CD/DVD-RW drives that works with Macs. And what's better than him saying so? He showed me the box. In the box, it clearly said supports up to OSX 10.8 (Mtn Lion). Then again, the external drives he showed me were from (surprise surprise!) companies that specialized in Mac peripherals. The brand was something like MacSense or Mac-something.

In the end, the 2 external drives he showed me were only $10 less than the Apple SuperDrive. Only $10 less was a non-issue for me. Not really a great discount. Plus they looked tacky and the cases looked bulky. I picked up the Apple SuperDrive.
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Old Feb 7, 2013, 07:13 AM   #63
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Ummm do we know for sure (100%) that only the Apple SuperDrive is the only external disk drive that's currently compatible with (current) Macs? I highly doubt that, and this is why...

I recently purchased my 2012 iMac, and the first add-on I shopped for was the SuperDrive. I went to my local MacMall. Guess what? The sales rep showed me two... yes TWO... external 3rd-party branded optical CD/DVD-RW drives that works with Macs. And what's better than him saying so? He showed me the box. In the box, it clearly said supports up to OSX 10.8 (Mtn Lion). Then again, the external drives he showed me were from (surprise surprise!) companies that specialized in Mac peripherals. The brand was something like MacSense or Mac-something.

In the end, the 2 external drives he showed me were only $10 less than the Apple SuperDrive. Only $10 less was a non-issue for me. Not really a great discount. Plus they looked tacky and the cases looked bulky. I picked up the Apple SuperDrive.
Interesting. In fact, I for one am not claiming that all other external optical drives don't work for this specific purpose (ie. Windows installation). For eg. I've previously mentioned here that the Asus brand has been confirmed by others as working well for this.

However, many brands of optical drive appear not to work for this installation, something also confirmed by numerous users. That includes well known brands like Samsung, which are otherwise wholly reliable, at a decent price.

I wouldn't touch Apple's superdrive as I've generally found all slot-loading drives to be fairly poor, Apple's is more expensive than most, yet apparently has a reputation for a fairly high failure rate.
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Old Feb 7, 2013, 08:36 AM   #64
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I've never really followed the differing types of optical drives. Is this fairly common knowledge that slot-loading drives have higher malfunction rates than... well.... "tray-loading" (that's the only other type I know of) drives?

Being that I don't recall having experienced any optical drive failures (in my Macs as well as PCs), I was never aware of this issue between slot-loading drives and tray loaders.

I'll go no further with this sub-topic now... as we are derailing off topic.
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Old Feb 7, 2013, 09:07 AM   #65
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Fair enough as personal experience of this naturally varies & yours is different to mine.

FWIW, in my experience: both my former iMac's & iBook's slot-loading drives would occasionally scratch CDs/DVDs, see them stuck, make all sorts of irritating loud noises if playing recorded media on certain disks, etc. The iMac was the worse of the two.

I've never had those problems with my tray-loading Samsung or any other tray-loading drives. That's my experience.

Hence I was never disappointed by Apple's decision to abandon superdrives on most of their Macs & my 2011 Mac Mini with Samsung external drive has had none of the said issues.

If you Google re Apple's superdrive failure-rate, you'll get a good number of hits citing similar, in some cases outright failure after a relatively short time.

However, I agree with you that we're derailing the topic here, so I too won't comment further on this.
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Old Feb 7, 2013, 11:23 AM   #66
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As far as I understand (and tested) the USB drive needs to be able to support the USB boot option in EFI, some cheaper USB drives have older/cheaper USB controllers that is not compatible with the EFI magic needed to boot from a USB drive.

Apple as they need the DVD drive to support things like booting from a DVD took the time to make sure the drive is fully compatible.

It's not any Apple conspiracy, in fact I am pretty sure if you took any EFI Windows PC and tried to boot off a USB DVD drive you would find the compatibility with USB booting would be the same as any EFI Intel Mac.

Edwin
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Old Feb 8, 2013, 04:58 AM   #67
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As far as I understand (and tested) the USB drive needs to be able to support the USB boot option in EFI, some cheaper USB drives have older/cheaper USB controllers that is not compatible with the EFI magic needed to boot from a USB drive.

Apple as they need the DVD drive to support things like booting from a DVD took the time to make sure the drive is fully compatible.

It's not any Apple conspiracy, in fact I am pretty sure if you took any EFI Windows PC and tried to boot off a USB DVD drive you would find the compatibility with USB booting would be the same as any EFI Intel Mac.

Edwin
Thanks Ed! This explains it.

This really will be the final comment from me on this but, FWIW, I've since discovered that even the AmazonBasics external optical drive works for said Windows 7 installation, as confirmed by a customer review on March 23, 2012:

http://www.amazon.com/AmazonBasics-W...pr_product_top
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Old Feb 8, 2013, 05:33 AM   #68
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Originally Posted by edddeduck View Post
As far as I understand (and tested) the USB drive needs to be able to support the USB boot option in EFI, some cheaper USB drives have older/cheaper USB controllers that is not compatible with the EFI magic needed to boot from a USB drive.

Apple as they need the DVD drive to support things like booting from a DVD took the time to make sure the drive is fully compatible.

It's not any Apple conspiracy, in fact I am pretty sure if you took any EFI Windows PC and tried to boot off a USB DVD drive you would find the compatibility with USB booting would be the same as any EFI Intel Mac.

Edwin
I know that hardware products frequently take the time to tell you if something is Apple compatible. Of course, if it's not on the packaging, it's up to you to figure it out.
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