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Old Jun 29, 2013, 09:08 AM   #26
GermanyChris
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Originally Posted by bedifferent View Post
Ugh

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Agree. I wish there was the ability to have both, buy the suite or individual app's and/or use the subscription model. Forcing consumers into one model seems extreme.

PS I'm jealous you're in Germany. I miss Europe. If you are adopting lol
I've lived here for just about 9 years. I won't go back to the states unless forced to. My daughter goes to German schools and my wife has a great job at the local university she graduated from working for the professor who supervised her thesis.

c'mon over there should be jobs here in the next couple years
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Old Jun 29, 2013, 09:29 AM   #27
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I've lived here for just about 9 years. I won't go back to the states unless forced to. My daughter goes to German schools and my wife has a great job at the local university she graduated from working for the professor who supervised her thesis.

c'mon over there should be jobs here in the next couple years
Believe me, if my parents weren't in their 70's in NY, I would have moved overseas a long time ago. Family is family, and I need to spend as much time with them as I can.

I have many friends who have moved to the U.K., Spain, Germany, even Israel, and they're living far better since 2000-01 than anyone I know in the states. Amazing (and sad) how quickly things change.

Being of mostly German ancestry, I have wanted to live there again, and it will happen. I'll keep you posted
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Old Jun 29, 2013, 09:35 AM   #28
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I only want to pay for my software once. Screw subscriptions. Not a welcome addition.
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Old Jun 29, 2013, 09:45 AM   #29
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This subscription issue was the focus of revulsion, if you read the comments below 4 articles on dpreview.com announcing Adobe's shifting Photoshop and other software into subscription-only availability. There were thousands of comments below each article, probably being among the most commented articles on dpreview.com

95% of dpreview readers hated subscriptions, particularly because if you stop paying you lose the ability to use the software to open data (you retain the data, but can't open it) - but of course Adobe is not doing this to please customers, but to maximise profits.

So basically it is a frog in the kettle. The money-debased corporations are heading software in this direction, and the minions (that's you) can squeal all you want, but the powerful corporations are heading towards subscriptions.
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Old Jun 29, 2013, 10:57 AM   #30
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That's what I thought, Doctor.
Same here.
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Old Jun 29, 2013, 11:29 AM   #31
katewes
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Incidentally, does that mean if I do not upgrade to Mavericks, then I am immune from having to use subscription-only software?
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Old Jun 29, 2013, 12:05 PM   #32
Michael Goff
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Incidentally, does that mean if I do not upgrade to Mavericks, then I am immune from having to use subscription-only software?
No, it simply means you won't have the option to auto-renew the subscriptions.
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Old Jun 30, 2013, 06:56 AM   #33
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How about supporting paid updates? I know some developers like Microsoft and Adobe aren't so fond of those, since they require adding useful, pay worthy features to existing apps, thus why they're moving to subscription models, but they're relatively popular with consumers, I think.

IE, if I want to majorly improve an app right now, my options for funding that are:

#1 - Don't. Everyone gets a free update and I go broke.
#2 - Sell it as an entirely seperate app. Many consumers won't discover it ever.
#3 - Charge subscription fees. Annoying to users who feel they're paying repeatedly for something I did once.
#4 - Attract new users by improving the app. Those major improvements you are talking about should be something users would actually have use for, right? Especially since you want them to pay for them...

Developers providing decent free updates to apps I've purchased are very likely to have me buying other apps they release as well, and I'll most certainly recommend the apps to other people. It is obviously not entirely easy to predict how revenue from that would compare to upgrade fees, of course.

One practical problem with paid updates could be that the Mac App Store FAQ states that updates are free. Paid updates to the same app could be tricky, but perhaps a discount on a separate app (the new version) if you already own another one could work?

On the other hand, there are already developers who use paid updates today with the current rules. One of the apps I had paid for suddenly had all functionality removed, and a mandatory in-app purchase added to restore the functionality it had when I bought it. Needless to say I will never ever again give any money at all to that developer.

Had the mentioned update been released as a new app and left the one I bought functional, I probably would have paid for the new one it since I used the old one every day. But trying to force existing customers to pay again for the same thing? Not a great way to deal with customers IMHO.

What looks good on paper won't necessarily translate to a positive cash flow in the future. Don't alienate your users, be gentle when trying to squeeze more money out of them.
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Old Jun 30, 2013, 09:33 AM   #34
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Originally Posted by itickings View Post
#4 - Attract new users by improving the app. Those major improvements you are talking about should be something users would actually have use for, right? Especially since you want them to pay for them...

Developers providing decent free updates to apps I've purchased are very likely to have me buying other apps they release as well, and I'll most certainly recommend the apps to other people. It is obviously not entirely easy to predict how revenue from that would compare to upgrade fees, of course.

One practical problem with paid updates could be that the Mac App Store FAQ states that updates are free. Paid updates to the same app could be tricky, but perhaps a discount on a separate app (the new version) if you already own another one could work?

On the other hand, there are already developers who use paid updates today with the current rules. One of the apps I had paid for suddenly had all functionality removed, and a mandatory in-app purchase added to restore the functionality it had when I bought it. Needless to say I will never ever again give any money at all to that developer.

Had the mentioned update been released as a new app and left the one I bought functional, I probably would have paid for the new one it since I used the old one every day. But trying to force existing customers to pay again for the same thing? Not a great way to deal with customers IMHO.

What looks good on paper won't necessarily translate to a positive cash flow in the future. Don't alienate your users, be gentle when trying to squeeze more money out of them.
I figure paid updates would work just like they always have if you buy an app anywhere else. Every year or so an app gets a major update that adds a lot of new features and existing users are informed about how an updated version is available. They may continue using the old version - they have paid for it, after all - but if they want the best version, they should go to the store and get the updated version with new features. Of course bug fixes and minor features can be free as they are now.
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Old Jul 1, 2013, 08:40 AM   #35
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Originally Posted by ArtOfWarfare View Post
How about supporting paid updates? I know some developers like Microsoft and Adobe aren't so fond of those, since they require adding useful, pay worthy features to existing apps, thus why they're moving to subscription models, but they're relatively popular with consumers, I think.

IE, if I want to majorly improve an app right now, my options for funding that are:

#1 - Don't. Everyone gets a free update and I go broke.
#2 - Sell it as an entirely seperate app. Many consumers won't discover it ever.
#3 - Charge subscription fees. Annoying to users who feel they're paying repeatedly for something I did once.
At this stage is pretty obvious it isn't coming.

My belief is that its Apple trying to coerce the market away from the purchase/upgrade pricing model to one where everybody pays the upgrade price. Technically that's good for the customers (remember the delight at the initial MAS pricing for Aperture and FCPX?) and cheaper software sells Macs, but the customers will soon forget the price drops, and think they're getting ripped off at the next round of updates (FCPX-2).
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Old Jul 2, 2013, 03:04 PM   #36
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It's just a matter of time before Apple starts subscription-based plans itself. As a user of many Apple software, I personally would welcome the move. But those using just a few would probably hate it.
Just because Adobe went subscription and included a large number of their products under a single Creative Cloud name doesn't mean Apple will include all of their products under a similar, singly priced bundle.

To expand: Apple has a variety of products (Office-like software, supposedly pro video/photo software, the former iLife components--not to mention OS X upgrades and whatnot) that I can't see them offering under one single subscription. So, I'm not sure how much using multiple products will help here.
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