Apple blew it - Xbox One first out

KentuckyKid220 said:

Wait till E3 for games, the conference was for hardware/software.

I kind of like microsofts approach. The one device to rule them all (sarcasm). If they can combine the great fluid UI demonstrated + the apps + the power + games we have a clear winner.

As for emulation, the ps4 won't play ps3 games.

To emulate something the primary device needs to be much much much much faster. Software emulation simply isn't possible at this time.

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Microsoft seems to be going in a better direction than Sony and Nintendo. But the console just sounds too much like wanting to be some ubiquitous device that everybody uses while it sits there as a $500 console.

Maybe this makes more sense if you're more familiar with Windows 8 and the ecosystem of buying stuff from Microsoft. I'm familiar with the suckage of Windows Media Player and whatever the built-in photo software is on Windows 7. It's horrible. It really sounds like Microsoft wants to have Apple's integration without really having a key device like an iPhone or iPad that so many people have. I know Microsoft has Windows Phone and Surface, but in the scheme of things those devices are immature.

Thus, the games and gaming features should be the MOST important features. Like show me things such as the new Kinect sensor understanding when I yell "mirror!" when playing the Microsoft-made football game in Kinect Sports Season 2 to call a play. Show me the Kinect sensor not thinking I'm cussing out the ref in NBA 2K3 when I'm literally silent. I unplugged my Kinect because of that.

Oh yeah, and be less lame with downloadable games. 1) Demos for every damn game. 2) Same-day release on disc and download for everything. 3) Why in the motherloving hell is FIFA 12 still $40? FIFA 13 is long in the tooth and still $60, and FIFA 14 is only a few months from coming out.

As for the emulation thing, I can't really argue with you because I don't know the technical specifics of emulation. But it just seems like a system bragging about its 8-core CPU should be able to emulate software from a system designed 8 years ago. I never ran any massive games through Rosetta, but I also didn't have an 8-core CPU. The fact that I won't be able to transfer over the numerous games I bought for Xbox 360 makes me EXTREMELY less likely to buy an Xbox One. If I could play my old games and they were emulated like the Wii did with GameCube games, then I wouldn't need to have yet another box sitting around.

Honestly if this is the best Microsoft can do, it needs to wait until it can run the 360 games on the thing. Sony should do the same as well.

Looks good but it can't replace the apple tv

Don't get me wrong, I'll get the Xbox one the first day it goes on sale ( already reserved one at my local EB Games, and I reserved the PS 4 as well) but I have about a hundred hd movies that I got on itunes and a couple hundred tv show that I also bought on iTunes as well. All of these won't work on the Xbox one, or PS 4. So as good as the Xbox one looks, I will still need an TV, even as limited as it is.

So, the question is not how did Apple screw up? but who did Apple screw up? Me and hundred of thousands of iTunes users who needs to buy Apple hardware in order to use iTunes products.

I am not a Windows fan but Microsoft did a good job with Media center and it works flawlessly with the Xbox, itunes often needs to be restarted because it somehow disconnect from the tv. To use the TV you need a computer running iTunes, a NAS won't work with the TV but it works perfectly well with the Xbox and the Ps3.

Man iTunes sucks!

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Are you saying the Xbox one won't be compatible with the xbox 360 games?

Michael CM1 said:

Microsoft seems to be going in a better direction than Sony and Nintendo. But the console just sounds too much like wanting to be some ubiquitous device that everybody uses while it sits there as a $500 console.

Maybe this makes more sense if you're more familiar with Windows 8 and the ecosystem of buying stuff from Microsoft. I'm familiar with the suckage of Windows Media Player and whatever the built-in photo software is on Windows 7. It's horrible. It really sounds like Microsoft wants to have Apple's integration without really having a key device like an iPhone or iPad that so many people have. I know Microsoft has Windows Phone and Surface, but in the scheme of things those devices are immature.

Thus, the games and gaming features should be the MOST important features. Like show me things such as the new Kinect sensor understanding when I yell "mirror!" when playing the Microsoft-made football game in Kinect Sports Season 2 to call a play. Show me the Kinect sensor not thinking I'm cussing out the ref in NBA 2K3 when I'm literally silent. I unplugged my Kinect because of that.

Oh yeah, and be less lame with downloadable games. 1) Demos for every damn game. 2) Same-day release on disc and download for everything. 3) Why in the motherloving hell is FIFA 12 still $40? FIFA 13 is long in the tooth and still $60, and FIFA 14 is only a few months from coming out.

As for the emulation thing, I can't really argue with you because I don't know the technical specifics of emulation. But it just seems like a system bragging about its 8-core CPU should be able to emulate software from a system designed 8 years ago. I never ran any massive games through Rosetta, but I also didn't have an 8-core CPU. The fact that I won't be able to transfer over the numerous games I bought for Xbox 360 makes me EXTREMELY less likely to buy an Xbox One. If I could play my old games and they were emulated like the Wii did with GameCube games, then I wouldn't need to have yet another box sitting around.

Honestly if this is the best Microsoft can do, it needs to wait until it can run the 360 games on the thing. Sony should do the same as well.

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anewman143 said:

I'm an xbox guy, but not sure the ONE appeals to me. I'm 47 and love to play, but I'm not a guy who wants to play while skyping while checking my fantasy sports team (actually...I don't have one). Perhaps this kind of multi-tasking content is designed for the younger user. Yes - the voice activated interface is slick...wonder how it will be in the real world.

And I have a home theater receiver with multiple inputs, so the switching/combined viewing on the ONE is neat, but not sure I'd really use it all that much.

For me, it's about the games. And until the ONE has some games that I can't play on my 360, I'm not going to be lining up for it. But time will tell - as more info comes out, perhaps a more compelling argument will be made for old guys like me. I fear it will be above the $299 price point...hopefully they will have learned from the PS3 intro that prices above that will kill sales...

Stay tuned, I suppose.

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Couldn't agree more. I'm 36 and still love to play games so I'm excited about the next "next-gen" possibilities but I could care less about talking to my Xbox, having multiple windows open. Also having moved away from cable and satellite TV service the One's overlay function is of little interest

Still looks like a sweet piece of gear though =)

whooleytoo said:

The same is true with the 'new' web browser for the 360, you need the paid subscription to use it. And more annoyingly: if you're not signed in when you try to run the browser for the first time, it tells you that a free XBL account will suffice to download it; then when you try to run it informs you you need a Gold (paid) XBL account. XBL Gold buys you a few things you can get for free elsewhere. It's probably fine if you do a lot of Multiplayer, otherwise not.

On another note - I hope the game/DLC download UI in the new Xbox One will be a lot better. For many items, you can only get a brief text description, and much of this is filled with SeasonPass & other disclaimers.

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Wow.This company really doesn't want my money.

On a slightly related note,with all the current generations having a significant online component,I'm wondering how long before it just gets turned off.How much longer will Wii,PS3 and XB360 online components be available?Interesting question,only time will tell.

IlikeMacsSoMuch said:

Don't get me wrong, I'll get the Xbox one the first day it goes on sale ( already reserved one at my local EB Games, and I reserved the PS 4 as well) but I have about a hundred hd movies that I got on itunes and a couple hundred tv show that I also bought on iTunes as well. All of these won't work on the Xbox one, or PS 4. So as good as the Xbox one looks, I will still need an TV, even as limited as it is.

So, the question is not how did Apple screw up? but who did Apple screw up? Me and hundred of thousands of iTunes users who needs to buy Apple hardware in order to use iTunes products.

I am not a Windows fan but Microsoft did a good job with Media center and it works flawlessly with the Xbox, itunes often needs to be restarted because it somehow disconnect from the tv. To use the TV you need a computer running iTunes, a NAS won't work with the TV but it works perfectly well with the Xbox and the Ps3.

Man iTunes sucks!

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Are you saying the Xbox one won't be compatible with the xbox 360 games?

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If you knowingly bought movies from iTunes and are now complaining that they only play on Apple hardware you'll get zero sympathy from me.This is the exact reason I don't do that.DRM is for fools.

I don't need any sympathy from you, I was just stating an honest opinion. I wrongfully thought that a forum was the right place to express it, thank you for pointing it out to me.

When I started to buy drm content on iTunes I didn't know how restrictive it was, I was new to Apple. If DRM is for fool, do you know where one could legally download hd movies and HD television shows, without DRM?

DRM is not for fool, it is for people willing to pay so the industry keeps producing quality tv shows and movies. Without DRM, how would you make sure that the content is paid for?

If you can't understand that, then you'll get my sympathy

E.Lizardo said:

If you knowingly bought movies from iTunes and are now complaining that they only play on Apple hardware you'll get zero sympathy from me.This is the exact reason I don't do that.DRM is for fools.

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IlikeMacsSoMuch said:

I don't need any sympathy from you, I was just stating an honest opinion. I wrongfully thought that a forum was the right place to express it, thank you for pointing it out to me.

When I started to buy drm content on iTunes I didn't know how restrictive it was, I was new to Apple. If DRM is for fool, do you know where one could legally download hd movies and HD television shows, without DRM?

DRM is not for fool, it is for people willing to pay so the industry keeps producing quality tv shows and movies. Without DRM, how would you make sure that the content is paid for?

If you can't understand that, then you'll get my sympathy

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You can't download them without DRM,so I don't.I buy discs.Often they are cheaper than downloads.Maybe you didn't know that the industry gets money from disc sales just like downloads?If I need a digital copy I make one.Not as convenient obviously,but not an unbearable hardship either.And at this point in time it's the only non-DRM option.
So the choice is clear.Download DRM infested content that is often more expensive than discs and be prepared for the inevitable heartache or buy discs that you actually own and can do with as you wish.You did know you can't legally sell your downloaded content right?If you can't sell it you don't own it.

Oh-and music has been DRM free for a number of years.No change in piracy when it was discontinued.Maybe it's not needed after all?Actually it does nothing to fight piracy.It only causes honest people like you a world of pain.

And apple didn't screw up anything or anybody.The DRM on video was determined by those folks in the content industry that you want to make sure get your money.Same with the original iTunes music DRM.Determined by the rights holders,NOT Apple.So don't blame them.

Go buy a movie from Microsoft and try to play it on your ATV.Same thing in the reverse.

*And yes I know DVDs and Blurays have DRM.The point is it doesn't prevent you from ripping it and viewing it on the device of your choice.*

E.Lizardo said:

You can't download them without DRM,so I don't.I buy discs.Often they are cheaper than downloads.Maybe you didn't know that the industry gets money from disc sales just like downloads?If I need a digital copy I make one.Not as convenient obviously,but not an unbearable hardship either.And at this point in time it's the only non-DRM option.
So the choice is clear.Download DRM infested content that is often more expensive than discs and be prepared for the inevitable heartache or buy discs that you actually own and can do with as you wish.You did know you can't legally sell your downloaded content right?If you can't sell it you don't own it.

Oh-and music has been DRM free for a number of years.No change in piracy when it was discontinued.Maybe it's not needed after all?Actually it does nothing to fight piracy.It only causes honest people like you a world of pain.

And apple didn't screw up anything or anybody.The DRM on video was determined by those folks in the content industry that you want to make sure get your money.Same with the original iTunes music DRM.Determined by the rights holders,NOT Apple.So don't blame them.

Go buy a movie from Microsoft and try to play it on your ATV.Same thing in the reverse.

*And yes I know DVDs and Blurays have DRM.The point is it doesn't prevent you from ripping it and viewing it on the device of your choice.*

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I don't blame anybody, but Apple, or Microsoft or Sony or whatever could sell an app that would make it possible for someone to use their content on other device. I wouldn't mind paying the Apple TV price for an app that would allow me to watch my movies on an Xbox 360 or PS3. The content has been paid for after all, just like a dvd or a blu-ray disc. Just like Netflix, you pay them then you can use your account anywhere. Apple did not determine the DRM but they determine how I can use the content. Since the DRM doesn't involve Apple only, I should be able to use what I pay for however I choose. The same goes for Microsoft or whatever.

When you rip a dvd or a blu-ray, do you always get the same quality? Does it always work, not 99% of the time but always? You do understand that it is a private copy right? It is perfectly legal to do it in most country, but if you sell the dvd afterwards, it becomes piracy if you keep the ripped copy. Just saying.

Do you know how many hundred of years it will take for a dvd to be fully biodegraded, in nature when it breaks? Some people care about that, not everybody, but still some. And if you are married, you'll understand, the WAF? I have hundreds of dvd, cd, blu-ray and video games. An 18 feet long wall of it in our home cinema room. If I were to add a new dvd case every couple of months, then no WAF!

Do you have any kids? Boys specifically? Do they break things, cause boys will do that. Ya know, inserting the dvd upside down, bending it, scratching it. Sometimes even damaging the dvd reader while using it.

I'm not starting a debate over disk vs downloads but there are many reasons why someone might prefer one over the other and vice versa. I'm just saying the any content provider should be less restrictive for people willing to pay. No matter what company is involved.

I'm not any company's fanboy, I use mostly all of then ( not a big fan of the WII tho) and I like many things in all of them. I think that everything that could work in all of them should work in all of them. That is all.

Just like a dvd or blu-ray

IlikeMacsSoMuch said:

I don't blame anybody, but Apple, or Microsoft or Sony or whatever could sell an app that would make it possible for someone to use their content on other device.

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No.That would have to be approved by the rights holders.Apple or microsoft can only determine if your copy is legal on their own hardware.And manufacturers will never cooperate on the level needed to make that work.

I wouldn't mind paying the Apple TV price for an app that would allow me to watch my movies on an Xbox 360 or PS3. The content has been paid for after all, just like a dvd or a blu-ray disc. Just like Netflix, you pay them then you can use your account anywhere.

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Not he same.We're talking about purchased,not streaming content(at least I am.)Again-DRM only hinders your legal use of your own content,as you just pointed out.

Apple did not determine the DRM but they determine how I can use the content. Since the DRM doesn't involve Apple only, I should be able to use what I pay for however I choose. The same goes for Microsoft or whatever.

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What should happen sometimes will never happen.This is one of those times.Until it is in the studio's financial interest nothing will change.So far they are still where the music companies were 10 years ago.

When you rip a dvd or a blu-ray, do you always get the same quality?

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Yes

Does it always work, not 99% of the time but always?

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In my experience yes.Surely you aren't saying that if it DIDN'T work 1% of the time you should never do it?That would be nuts.I have heard of some discs not working for a short time until updates are issued.If that did happen to me the short wait would be more than outweighed by avoiding DRM.

You do understand that it is a private copy right? It is perfectly legal to do it in most country, but if you sell the dvd afterwards, it becomes piracy if you keep the ripped copy. Just saying.

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Yes

Do you know how many hundred of years it will take for a dvd to be fully biodegraded, in nature when it breaks? Some people care about that, not everybody, but still some. And if you are married, you'll understand, the WAF? I have hundreds of dvd, cd, blu-ray and video games. An 18 feet long wall of it in our home cinema room. If I were to add a new dvd case every couple of months, then no WAF!

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Then DRM content is your only choice.Hopefully someday that will change.
And biodegradability is not a concern for me.Compare the plastic in your collection to the plastic from say,frozen dinners that gets tossed every year.

Do you have any kids? Boys specifically? Do they break things, cause boys will do that. Ya know, inserting the dvd upside down, bending it, scratching it. Sometimes even damaging the dvd reader while using it.

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Ha that's why you make a backup.If that's a problem for you I'd suggest a project to copy all your discs,and put the originals in a safe place.

I'm not starting a debate over disk vs downloads

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REALLY?Could have fooled me!

but there are many reasons why someone might prefer one over the other and vice versa.

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Agreed

I'm just saying the any content provider should be less restrictive for people willing to pay. No matter what company is involved.

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Agreed

I'm not any company's fanboy, I use mostly all of then ( not a big fan of the WII tho) and I like many things in all of them. I think that everything that could work in all of them should work in all of them. That is all.

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Well after all of that we totally agree.The thing is I am talking about the situation today and how I cope,and for some reason you arguing a point I never made.I said DRM is bad and I avoid it.You say DRM is bad but it's a better choice and then complain about how it should be changed.Sadly for you neither choice is perfect for the reasons you stated.And it's going to stay that way for a long time I fear.
Just look at the history of DRM and related issues.First the music industry vilified tapers.Then Disney sued to stop Video tape rentals.Then DAT tape crashed and burned because of onerous DRM required by the music industry.Then the super awesome Divix DVDs.Then Sony's wonderful root kit CDs.Then they required DRM in music downloads.Then Microsoft's "Plays For Sure"debacle.Then the DRM on Blurays that was so bad early adopters had a hell of a time getting discs to play.DRM that cost millions to develop and implement and was broken in months.

In all of these the regular customer is at best inconvenienced and at worst royally screwed.And piracy rolls along unscathed.

As long as people buy DRMed content nothing will change.

So buy your content the way that works best for you,just understand the limitations of both and don't hold your breath for a change,you be frustrated for a long time.

StinDaWg said:

The Xbox One will likely be $500-600. I don't think they're really competing for the same market. You still need a cable box for the Xbox One features to work, so it's not exactly a game changer. And you'll still need to switch over to the cable box interface to get access to your recordings. It's more like a better version of Google TV if anything.

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totally agree, xbox is for playing games. Sure it'll be a good entertainment system, but why pay $500-600?!?!? Apple's got a few tricks up it's sleeve for the next Apple TV, I'm sure it will be a lot cheaper too

ps45 said:

Key difference:

Apple press events often end with the words: 'Shipping tomorrow'.
The XBox One is expected to be released towards the end of 2013.

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And then there was the new iMac.

Nightarchaon said:

I am dreading the PS4 UI, Sony dropped the XMB (Xross media bar, which all its TVs, The PS3, PSP and blu ray players used so it was a seamless experience across all sony devices) from the vita in favour of these dreadful bubble icon things.

The Blade UI worked, was simple and wasn't COVERED in adverts that you had to drill down past to find the game or feature you actually wanted. How is this awful ?

Image

Quite often when i did own a 360, after the UI upgrade, i found when they had full screen adverts running i couldn't read the text for menu items over them because the colour of the text matched the background, or the background was too busy.

I want a simple interface, that does its job in the cleanest, simple way possible (hence love the PS3s UI and hating microsofts) and of course now microsoft want me to wave and shout at my console (not going to happen, i wont use Siri, even in private, because i feel like a cock talking to my phone)

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Compare the original 360 UI with XMB on the PS3 (which hasn't changed as dramatically from launch day to today). While today's 360 UI is much nicer to look at (form), function is quite terrible. I agree with the advertisements and how much unnecessary bloat it has. But you have to admit, it does look nicer, cleaner, elegant. But XMB? It was both form and function.

I don't know (nor does anyone besides Sony) about the PS4 UI, but I really hope they don't Microsoft on us. We haven't seen what the damn thing even looks like except for some teasers. Much less the actual software. I'm hoping they keep the XMB but I'm doubtful it will actually happen.