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Old May 12, 2013, 03:23 PM   #351
BittenApple
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Originally Posted by TheGreenBastard View Post
No, they don't "still" come with iTunes preinstalled. Nor did they ever. You either got a used and/or returned unit.
HP computers came with iTunes when they had their agreement with Apple (HP iPod)
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Old May 12, 2013, 05:11 PM   #352
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Originally Posted by pundit View Post
Now, ModernUI apps have a flat design motif, and have a tactile feel that is attractive (like, say, loku and blio.) Metro apps are Windows store apps, and there are design guidelines. Go off-base far enough, and get rejected.
Those two apps are perfect examples of what I mean when I say Metro isn't a bad thing. Most of the people who gripe about how terrible it is base their entire argument off the Start screen alone, which is...yeah...kinda ugly. It gets the job done, but it's definitely not the most attractive app launcher around.

Metro apps aren't the Start screen. They still lean heavily upon typography and squares like it does, but there are a billion and one things you can do about it.

Like I've said about 15 billion times already, MS has gone for a very content-centric design. It's more about getting the message to you while minimalizing UI bling. In other words, it's not supposed to look like a programming running inside an OS, but more like a magazine. So unless you think modern print has looked ugly for the last 60 years, you should at least appreciate some of what Metro is doing.
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Old May 12, 2013, 06:11 PM   #353
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Of course.....

Doesn't surprise me No Metro for iTunes.

But what they are really saying "It will come, just not this year"
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Old May 12, 2013, 08:00 PM   #354
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I wouldn't waste my time on Metro or Windows 8, wait until the next version and why doesn't Microsoft build it? I thought if they wanted something they would build the app and have it in the apps store?
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Old May 12, 2013, 08:12 PM   #355
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Originally Posted by Renzatic View Post
So unless you think modern print has looked ugly for the last 60 years, you should at least appreciate some of what Metro is doing.
No.

The same style applied to two entire different industries and products doesn't mean you should respect both applications of it.

The reason I dislike metro is it seems a very odd fit on a 16:9 screen. The programs I've used tend to go with massively oversized content with text that is way too small (look at the headlines app). I know I can adjust the scale but you should see how confused my customers look when I explain to them the difference between making things larger in metro apps and that the DPI settings for the desktop don't effect the start screen or "fullscreen" (what I've resorted to calling them rather than explaining to people what Metro is) programs.

Oh yea, I forgot its "Modern" UI, they had to retract the Metro name very quickly (after already officially using it) when the lawsuits came.
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Old May 13, 2013, 07:26 AM   #356
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Originally Posted by iGrip View Post
As of a while ago, Microsoft announced that they had sold 100,000,000 Win8 licenses.

Are there even that many Macs in the wild, total?
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Originally Posted by gnasher729 View Post
There was an article that Windows 8 gives the continuous "sold vs. shipped" debate a whole new meaning: There are estimates that of 100 million of Windows 8 copies _sold_ (and paid for) only about a third are actually shipped. That would be PC makers having to pay Microsoft for Windows 8 but then shipping the computer with Windows 7 because that is what the customer wants.

BTW the total number of macs sold as of 2012 is roughly 122,000,000 but that comparison is hardly fair.

----------

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Originally Posted by NT1440 View Post
No.

The same style applied to two entire different industries and products doesn't mean you should respect both applications of it.

The reason I dislike metro is it seems a very odd fit on a 16:9 screen. The programs I've used tend to go with massively oversized content with text that is way too small (look at the headlines app). I know I can adjust the scale but you should see how confused my customers look when I explain to them the difference between making things larger in metro apps and that the DPI settings for the desktop don't effect the start screen or "fullscreen" (what I've resorted to calling them rather than explaining to people what Metro is) programs.

Oh yea, I forgot its "Modern" UI, they had to retract the Metro name very quickly (after already officially using it) when the lawsuits came.

There were lawsuits?
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Old May 13, 2013, 07:42 AM   #357
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Originally Posted by Michael Goff View Post

It's much more likely that iPads will remain what they are. They will be given to the CEOs and board members while the average worker continues to use a Windows-based computer. This will likely have Office on it.

iPads not having Office will lose them money, sure, but it's not going to lead to a doomsday scenario. Office not being on the iPad will, however, slow enterprise adoption. So will a lack of a few other tools that certain professionals use.
Where do you live anyways? Because everywhere I went to iPads were in the hands of office workers, teachers, and students. iPad has iWork (and a host of other free options), and it may not be as much functional as Office, it's cheaper and easier to use and more than enough for a tablet. People will then start to realize Office isn't (absolutely) necessary. I'm sure some "professionals" will still want Office, but for the average user (and most business users), iWork is sufficient.

----------

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Originally Posted by chairguru22 View Post
Metro is like launchpad... no one uses it, pointless. Go back to "desktop" and stick with it.
Really? Launchpad is the place I go to everyday to open my apps. The best part is that you can use it even while using a full screen app. I'm sure many other people do as well.
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Old May 13, 2013, 10:45 AM   #358
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Originally Posted by pundit View Post
Well, not withstanding that all of the those old Windows crashes (which by the way, if you looked at them, were almost always ring-0/Device Driver crashes, caused by 3rd party hardware or device driver faults,) were fairly commonplace, they were pretty much wiped out by the time that Vista SP1 came out, with a full WDM library. Now, lately you might see a driver/hardware issue but its very rare these days (and also, again 3rd party,) and rarer still some outer ring crashes (although almost universally games, frequently doing something dumb with the GPU.)

I can't think of an application crash in a basic consumer application actually written by Microsoft, like say, I.E. 10
https://www.google.com/search?q=ie+1...=ie+10+crashes

Quote:
I'd also like to think if they had tens or hundreds of thousands of people experiencing that issue in that admittedly critical application, they might actually do something to fix it, within 4-5 years.

I didn't say iCloud was your solution to not having Safari crash. That was, indeed Apples solution. It follows however, that if there is this issue common enough for iOS that half a million views are on a single thread, that iCloud isn't a full solution to PC-free syncing on iOS.
Or, we are talking about many different issues. Browsers crash at times.

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If Apple says disable iCloud how can you sync/backup/restore etc to an iOS device without iTunes?
Easy, you can disable iCloud sync for Safari independently of sync/backup/restore.

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Its just an example of something I (and I'm sure many people) did last week. I'll repeat, can you do that with iCloud or Dropbox?
Again, no one ever claimed that an iOS device can do everything.

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Net Appliances says 60 million in use. Which is right around the number of macs shipped total in the last 8 years. Its a sure bet that Mac OS X gets utterly eclipsed by the end of the year, and 95% probability by the end of the summer.
Which is almost exactly the numbers I used. Not sure where you disagree.

Quote:
But you CAN charge an iphone with a windows 8 pc or tablet. You CAN'T with another iphone (but this was really a piggy backed argument regarding my comment to someone else's fatuous statement) We're arguing different things. You're arguing you don't have to charge an iphone with a PC-- true. I'm arguing that you can both charge and performance syncing/maintenance tasks on a PC that you simply cannot do with iOS devices alone.
Again, you can charge and sync an iOS device without a PC. No one is arguing that a PC doesn't have more features (such as USB ports).

Quote:
However and incidentally, if you had just two iOS devices, and no plug, you couldn't charge one or the other iOS device, but if you had an iOS device and a Windows 8 machine with a usb cable you could charge the iOS device.
That's just circular logic. If you had two Windows 8 laptops and no plug, you couldn't charge it. Surprise!

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Understood. All I'm saying is that I'm very well aware that iOS can't do everything for itself, alone without the support of iTunes. Although 3rd party apps can help in some cases, that certainly doesn't mean all cases.
Yes, it can!

Quote:
Separate issue... but he was talking about the lack of easy native file access via standard protocols to iOS devices. If you took a random hard drive with gigs of music on it, and wanted it on your iOS device you'd be very likely to need an intermediate pc to transfer said music.
I was going by what he said rather than reading his mind. Yes, you can transfer music from a random hard drive to an iOS device. You would just need to connect to it wirelessly.

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2013/02..._drive_review/

Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael Goff View Post
Apparently I haven't been explaining my position clearly enough. Let me try this again.

How many people are using a smartphone from 2007? Very few people. How many people are using a Windows OS from 2007 or prior? QUITE A LOT.
I'm not sure what you think I disagree with here.

Quote:
As for what you were wrong about, you said I couldn't rip music with my MBA. You were wrong.
I thought it was pretty obvious that I wasn't including extra hardware in the scenario. You know, since we were not including extra hardware in the iPad scenario.
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Old May 13, 2013, 11:22 AM   #359
Michael Goff
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Originally Posted by BaldiMac View Post

I'm not sure what you think I disagree with here.



I thought it was pretty obvious that I wasn't including extra hardware in the scenario. You know, since we were not including extra hardware in the iPad scenario.
-Then why make the comparison at all?

-So I can rip music onto my iPad with other hardware? And no, you can't say 'sure, just use a PC to do it'. -_-
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Old May 13, 2013, 02:09 PM   #360
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Originally Posted by Michael Goff View Post
-Then why make the comparison at all?
I already answered that. Because I find it interesting that iOS could soon become a more popular OS than Windows. Obviously, the poster who made the comparison did as well.

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-So I can rip music onto my iPad with other hardware? And no, you can't say 'sure, just use a PC to do it'. -_-
Why can't I say that? But it's not really the point. An iPad can't rip CDs. It's not a feature. That doesn't make it dependent on a PC. It simply makes it different than a PC.
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Old May 13, 2013, 02:20 PM   #361
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Originally Posted by BaldiMac View Post
I already answered that. Because I find it interesting that iOS could soon become a more popular OS than Windows. Obviously, the poster who made the comparison did as well.



Why can't I say that? But it's not really the point. An iPad can't rip CDs. It's not a feature. That doesn't make it dependent on a PC. It simply makes it different than a PC.
But it isn't really all that interesting. They're products with completely different life cycles. >_>;
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Old May 13, 2013, 02:23 PM   #362
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Originally Posted by Michael Goff View Post
But it isn't really all that interesting. They're products with completely different life cycles. >_>;
That's your opinion. I disagree.
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Old May 13, 2013, 10:18 PM   #363
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Quote:
Originally Posted by szw-mapple fan View Post

BTW the total number of macs sold as of 2012 is roughly 122,000,000 but that comparison is hardly fair.
Just goes to show how some people think. 100,000,000 units in a few months is seen as a failure, but 122 M over several decades is seen as a stunning achievement.
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Old May 13, 2013, 10:25 PM   #364
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Originally Posted by iGrip View Post
Just goes to show how some people think. 100,000,000 units in a few months is seen as a failure, but 122 M over several decades is seen as a stunning achievement.
You gotta understand that those 122,000,000 people willingly chose Macs, whereas those 100,000,000 people who bought Windows didn't have any other choice.
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Old May 14, 2013, 10:01 AM   #365
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I think Apple is hoping to eventually move away from the need for an itunes desktop app altogether. Currently, we can already download updates onto our IOS devices and back them up to icloud without needing to first plug them in.

Apps like airvideo let us stream media from our desktop directly without having to transfer any files over. Dropbox is already widely used to transfer files onto our IOS devices. The only reason I even plug in my handphone is to charge it at night!
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Old May 14, 2013, 10:21 AM   #366
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Originally Posted by Renzatic View Post
You gotta understand that those 122,000,000 people willingly chose Macs, whereas those 100,000,000 people who bought Windows didn't have any other choice.
According to some people, tablets are kicking normal PCs to the curb. Oh, and then there are places you can buy Linux PCs -f you look-.
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Old May 14, 2013, 02:49 PM   #367
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According to some people, tablets are kicking normal PCs to the curb. Oh, and then there are places you can buy Linux PCs -f you look-.
That little quip above was a sarcastic play on words to all those people here who were saying that no one willingly buys a Windows PC.

Weirdly enough, my response to them was about the same as yours.
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Old May 14, 2013, 02:52 PM   #368
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Originally Posted by Renzatic View Post
That little quip above was a sarcastic play on words to all those people here who were saying that no one willingly buys a Windows PC.

Weirdly enough, my response to them was about the same as yours.
*facepalm*

I missed sarcasm.

But, yeah, it's frustrating that people can say in one breath that 'people have no choice' and then in the next one say that tablets are taking over.
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Old May 15, 2013, 02:14 AM   #369
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Originally Posted by thekeyring View Post
>>As I posted earlier, NetMarketShare has Windows 8 at 3.82% and Mac at 7.01% for April 2013.

Exactly. Windows 8 passed Linux desktop market share, but not OS X.
Funny how you lump all OSX together, but list Windows 8 separate from the rest of Windows. I think we need a fair comparison if you're going to compare Apples to Apples (or rather Windows).

Thus, what is Mountain Lion's share? I see it as 38% of OSX for April 2013, so that would mean it has a 2.66% overall market share versus 3.82% for Windows 8.
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Old May 15, 2013, 05:41 AM   #370
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The company I work for recently purchased the Lenovo Thinkpad Tablet 2 to be used as trading terminals. Our trading front end is Java based so it was a logical choice to use Windows 8. However before we bought the Lenovo we purchased a few iPads for testing purposes but the lack of a filemamager, being able to mount our servers, Java, MS Office, multi-user support and network login stopped that experiment pretty quickly. I have to say I quite enjoy using the Thinkpad, so much so that I bought one for home. I really don't understand where all of the negativity for Windows 8 comes from, it has it's quirks no doubt but I'm very productive on it and in the end that's all that really matters to me. I also have a iPad 4 which I love, the music creation apps are out of this world but I'm starting to use the Lenovo for everything else.
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Old May 15, 2013, 07:58 AM   #371
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Originally Posted by iGrip View Post
Just goes to show how some people think. 100,000,000 units in a few months is seen as a failure, but 122 M over several decades is seen as a stunning achievement.
Like I said, licensed doesn't mean shipped. The minute that a PC rolls off the manufacturing line with Windows 8 on it, it is counted as a "license sold." So that means all the PCs sitting on the shelves of HP's warehouse, Best Buy's warehouse and NewEgg's warehouse are part of that count.The bulk, especially business PCs (only 2% of IT pros prefer 8 vs. 60% prefer 7), were downgraded to Windows 7. Look at all the Vista downgrades to XP over the years. Filling the channel is one thing. Customers actually using the product is another. Plus, you are comparing one company's mostly high end computers with roughly 100 companies around the world that is making a wide range of PCs.
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Old May 15, 2013, 08:54 AM   #372
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Originally Posted by MagnusVonMagnum View Post
Funny how you lump all OSX together, but list Windows 8 separate from the rest of Windows. I think we need a fair comparison if you're going to compare Apples to Apples (or rather Windows).

Thus, what is Mountain Lion's share? I see it as 38% of OSX for April 2013, so that would mean it has a 2.66% overall market share versus 3.82% for Windows 8.
Not "funny" at all if you look at the context. Several different posters in this thread commented that more people use Windows 8 that OS X. I simply asked if it was true and provided numbers to support my point.
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Old Jun 13, 2013, 08:47 PM   #373
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Originally Posted by BaldiMac View Post
Except windows 8 users can still use iTunes.
But not in the modern UI which is where Microsoft wants to head.

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If that happened (as unlikely as it is) Apple could revisit their decision. Not a big deal.
Why be late to the party?

It's thinking like this that slows down the whole software/hardware industry. Look how long it took printer manufacturers to release a 64bit version of their printer drivers, just as 1 example. Some couldn't even be bothered.

Why do most things happen in the software industry? Because their users want/demand it, or they move on to something else.
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