Wozniak: MS now more innovative then Apple

[smoledman]

Originally Posted by Renzatic

Errrghkt, the new thin iMacs do have discrete graphics cards in them.

Discrete graphics for notebooks, not desktops.

[Renzatic]

po-tay-toe po-tat-oh. Discrete is discrete.

Plus the 680MX is more or less an underclocked desktop caliber GPU, so it kinda does in a roundabout way.

[roadbloc]

Originally Posted by VenusianSky

Windows Vista, Windows 7 and Windows 8 are all Windows build version 6.x.

Just like Cheetah, Puma, Jaguar, Panther, Tiger, Leopard, Snow Leopard, Lion and Mountain Lion are all OS build version 10.x. Doesn't change anything really.

[stockscalper]

Originally Posted by spork183

Reality is that Microsoft has good ideas, AT THIS TIME.

Name one.

[Renzatic]

Tiles.

[viewfly]

No one listens to Wuz. He has no business sense. Jobs had the business acumen in what would sell and what was just neat.

[smoledman]

Originally Posted by Renzatic

Tiles.

Charms Bar, Semantic Zoom, App contracts(search, share, playto, background, camera, etc..), application charms(swipe from the bottom), better multitasking, Snap View, One-button reset to original installation(not just factory settings like iOS).

http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/libr.../hh464906.aspx

[VenusianSky]

Originally Posted by roadbloc

Just like Cheetah, Puma, Jaguar, Panther, Tiger, Leopard, Snow Leopard, Lion and Mountain Lion are all OS build version 10.x. Doesn't change anything really.

I am not sure I get your point. My point was that people seem to have this great fear of going to Windows 8, when the the only major change is the start menu is now full screen and there is a new application platform (Windows RT) that is designed to interface with touchscreen devices. Windows 8 still has a desktop and is capable (not guaranteed) of running any application that ran on Vista, 7, and in many cases XP. Keyboard and mouse work as they always have, plus some new keyboard combinations to perform several actions that are relevant to the Metro interface.

[G51989]

Originally Posted by Renzatic

That article is either an obvious linkbaiting ploy, or the writer is a complete idiot. Every single thing he complains about, I can shoot down in 3 seconds.

like..

"Windows 8's Desktop looks much more like "Windows," but the interface still has only a fraction of Windows 7 Aero's functionality."

Wuh? It's literally 99% the same. The start button is gone, but you can still access the exact same things just by moving the mouse a smidge to the left, and a tiny bit down.

Metro apps aren't the best experience with a keyboard and mouse, but...get this...you don't have to use them. Ever. It's like griping about Angry Birds being on OSX brings down the entire user experience because it's meant to be used with touch.

Don't worry about reviews like that.

The majority of tech sites like that are written by liberal arts retards that think their opinion matters.

[bevel]

MS now more innovative then Apple

then?

Are you kidding me? Then? Does no one... I mean... Are we all 10 years old? THEN???

[KnightWRX]

Originally Posted by roadbloc

Just like Cheetah, Puma, Jaguar, Panther, Tiger, Leopard, Snow Leopard, Lion and Mountain Lion are all OS build version 10.x. Doesn't change anything really.

That is patently false. Starting with Version 6.0 of the Darwin operating system (and OS X 10.2), Apple has been incrementing the version number for each release of OS X :

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Darwin_...elease_history

Darwin is to OS X as Windows NT is to the different Windows releases.

Arguing version numbers is daft anyhow. Version numbers mean nothing. Get that in your heads people. There are no rules about versionning software, you can increment as fast or as slowly as you want. You can use Major.Minor, Major.Minor.Increment, Letters, Greek symbols, you can count backwards, randomly, whatever the hell you want and really there's nothing anyone can say about it.

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Originally Posted by VenusianSky

I am not sure I get your point. My point was that people seem to have this great fear of going to Windows 8, when the the only major change is the start menu is now full screen and there is a new application platform (Windows RT) that is designed to interface with touchscreen devices. Windows 8 still has a desktop and is capable (not guaranteed) of running any application that ran on Vista, 7, and in many cases XP. Keyboard and mouse work as they always have, plus some new keyboard combinations to perform several actions that are relevant to the Metro interface.

The fact that they share the same Windows NT version number does not garantee anything. In fact, even just the UI changes can be the most daunting to a user, not kernel or API changes (which Windows has gone through a lot even in the NT branch).

Heck, even Windows 7 was force to implement a hosted Windows XP environnement to run some applications that used librarie versions and features that got dropped. Windows NT 3.51 and up also had NTVDM, an emulator, to run Win16 applications and DOS applications since it lacked proper 16 bit support or Real mode memory management.

So really, there's always a compatibility risk in upgrading to a new version of an OS. Be it any distribution of Linux, Solaris, HP-UX, Windows, Mac OS X, it doesn't change the realities that software progresses and regression tests aren't 100% perfect, nor is backward compatibility always such a great idea (sometimes, deprecating APIs/features is just the right move).

[VenusianSky]

Originally Posted by KnightWRX

The fact that they share the same Windows NT version number does not garantee anything. In fact, even just the UI changes can be the most daunting to a user, not kernel or API changes (which Windows has gone through a lot even in the NT branch).

Heck, even Windows 7 was force to implement a hosted Windows XP environnement to run some applications that used librarie versions and features that got dropped. Windows NT 3.51 and up also had NTVDM, an emulator, to run Win16 applications and DOS applications since it lacked proper 16 bit support or Real mode memory management.

So really, there's always a compatibility risk in upgrading to a new version of an OS. Be it any distribution of Linux, Solaris, HP-UX, Windows, Mac OS X, it doesn't change the realities that software progresses and regression tests aren't 100% perfect, nor is backward compatibility always such a great idea (sometimes, deprecating APIs/features is just the right move).

I never said everything was guaranteed to be compatible with Windows 8, as stated in my comment you quoted. In many cases though, applications as old as those written for Windows XP will run fine on Windows 8.
As for UI change in 8, people are making far too big of a deal out of the Start Menu, IMO. I guess I never had some personal attachment to the classic Start Menu. It has been more of an inconvenience than anything for myself. As soon as Microsoft added the ability to add app shortcuts to the Start Menu "main page" (Win2000), I used it. Now they just call it "Pin to Start Menu".

[Zombie Acorn]

Originally Posted by smoledman

Yet if you look at Patently Apple site, you see that Apple's patents are far cooler then anything Microsoft does. Even if you look at current selling products they are filled with innovations(MagSafe, AirPlay, AirDrop, super-thin chassis, retina displays, fusion drives).

Magsafe was ripped off, other appliances used breakaway cables for years. Airplay is streaming, no innovation here. Airdrop is file sharing, not really innovative. Super thin chasis is more of a technological advancement than an innovative breakthrough, same with retina display.

Fusion drive is a caching technique which has been used previously in other forms. My laptop has a SSD caching drive, I am not sure what exactly fusion is going to "innovate" here.

So as you can see, Apple does less innovation and more marketing pre-existing ideas.

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Originally Posted by VenusianSky

I never said everything was guaranteed to be compatible with Windows 8, as stated in my comment you quoted. In many cases though, applications as old as those written for Windows XP will run fine on Windows 8.
As for UI change in 8, people are making far too big of a deal out of the Start Menu, IMO. I guess I never had some personal attachment to the classic Start Menu. It has been more of an inconvenience than anything for myself. As soon as Microsoft added the ability to add app shortcuts to the Start Menu "main page" (Win2000), I used it. Now they just call it "Pin to Start Menu".

To tell the truth, I hardly ever even see the start menu on Windows 8. If someone were watching my screen they would probably just think I was using Windows 7. The best feature IMO is the Windows + Q | Windows + W search features because I can quickly pull up device manager or some random program just by typing it and pressing enter.

[VenusianSky]

Originally Posted by Zombie Acorn

To tell the truth, I hardly ever even see the start menu on Windows 8. If someone were watching my screen they would probably just think I was using Windows 7. The best feature IMO is the Windows + Q | Windows + W search features because I can quickly pull up device manager or some random program just by typing it and pressing enter.

Same here about the Start Menu.
Yeah, search is really nice. Even when you are in Metro, you can just start typing and it will automatically take you to the Search. If you are in the Windows Store app and you just start typing text, it will search the store.

I was playing around on a Windows RT tablet and found that it even has the regular Windows file explorer, device manager, and other tools common to regular. I thought that Microsoft was going to restrict Windows RT edition to just a Metro interface, but they did not.

[76ShovelHead]

Played around with Windows 8 for a week. Was convinced that it was great. Started using OS X again and forgot all about the Windows partition.

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Originally Posted by Zombie Acorn

Magsafe was ripped off, other appliances used breakaway cables for years. Airplay is streaming, no innovation here. Airdrop is file sharing, not really innovative. Super thin chasis is more of a technological advancement than an innovative breakthrough, same with retina display.

Fusion drive is a caching technique which has been used previously in other forms. My laptop has a SSD caching drive, I am not sure what exactly fusion is going to "innovate" here.

So as you can see, Apple does less innovation and more marketing pre-existing ideas.

----------



To tell the truth, I hardly ever even see the start menu on Windows 8. If someone were watching my screen they would probably just think I was using Windows 7. The best feature IMO is the Windows + Q | Windows + W search features because I can quickly pull up device manager or some random program just by typing it and pressing enter.

So very true. Apple is astoundingly talented at marketing. Just look at their slogan for OS X, "The Worlds Most Advanced Desktop Operating System." When I was young, I was so convinced. Now, not so much. OS X is lightyears ahead of Windows in every category, but to say that it is the worlds most advanced desktop operating system is a little bit more than a stretch.

[Mrbobb]

The jump to Metro is indeed new and OK, innovative, but one can say MS had no choice while the competition is killing them in mobiles.


But Woz, you are banned from the next Apple Xmas party!

[RSL]

Originally Posted by 76ShovelHead

Just look at their slogan for OS X, "The Worlds Most Advanced Desktop Operating System." When I was young, I was so convinced. Now, not so much. OS X is lightyears ahead of Windows in every category, but to say that it is the worlds most advanced desktop operating system is a little bit more than a stretch.

Yeah "most advanced" is a pushing it. Still the best OS though.

[KnightWRX]

Originally Posted by RSL

Yeah "most advanced" is a pushing it. Still the best OS though.

Keyword is desktop.

[GermanyChris]

Originally Posted by viewfly

No one listens to Wuz. He has no business sense. Jobs had the business acumen in what would sell and what was just neat.

Which is why people listen to him, he doesn't care about your money he want's cool stuff…

Apple does ZERO blue sky research they just design cool enclosures for others creations..

I'd really like to see some advancing society research vs. making money research.

[Drunken Master]

Originally Posted by G51989

Don't worry about reviews like that.

The majority of tech sites like that are written by liberal arts retards that think their opinion matters.

Now now.

[iHailCarlo]

I am sorry I know this guy is one of the founding fathers, but he will say anything at this point to get in the news. Does anyone really even listen to him? He is pretty much a nobody at this point.

[Drunken Master]

Originally Posted by Renzatic

Tiles.

I like that some of them are "live" but many of the app icons are too large.