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Old Jun 25, 2013, 01:34 PM   #151
skottichan
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mcrain View Post
Look, no one with a penis should be in the girls room. Real, fake or otherwise.
Okay, so what about someone like me, who is intersex (specifically chimeric XX intersex). I have all the female secondary sexual characteristics (breasts, lack of body hair, fat distribution in the face, chest and hips), I have an ovary (the other one was removed due to cancer) and malformed parts of a uterus, and vagina. I also have a a non-functioning penis.

Gender-wise I've always been seen as, and identified as female.

By your definition, I should be forced to use the men's room, just because of the misfortune of being the 1 in 440,000?
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Old Jun 25, 2013, 01:46 PM   #152
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Originally Posted by lannister80 View Post
Alright guys, I'm done with this thread. I've said what I want to say and I don't want to get banned.
I completely understand and I want to thank you (and some others) publicly for speaking out.

It is sad to think that people are afraid to say the right thing because they have been made to feel they will be punished for it
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Old Jun 25, 2013, 01:58 PM   #153
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In my experience most transgendered folk did know what they were from the earliest memories. They may not have known what was wrong until later or exactly how they were distinct from others who shared their physical appearance; but they knew.

I think it's heartwarming to see parents who are strong enough to give their child the opportunity to express herself at such a young age.

Yes care has to be taken for the child's welfare and it should be monitored to make sure it isn't the parents wishes being forced upon her. If she says she identifies as a female; whatever age she is is; then society should give her that chance.

Trust me I KNOW about this and can only say that it IS something one knows from the earliest age.

And to those arguing against - I can see your side too. It is a very difficult concept to grasp, especially for those having no experience. Just put yourself in the child's position. It's a state of torture that is almost impossible to imagine.
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Old Jun 25, 2013, 03:56 PM   #154
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Originally Posted by costabunny View Post
In my experience most transgendered folk did know what they were from the earliest memories. They may not have known what was wrong until later or exactly how they were distinct from others who shared their physical appearance; but they knew.

I think it's heartwarming to see parents who are strong enough to give their child the opportunity to express herself at such a young age.

Yes care has to be taken for the child's welfare and it should be monitored to make sure it isn't the parents wishes being forced upon her. If she says she identifies as a female; whatever age she is is; then society should give her that chance.

Trust me I KNOW about this and can only say that it IS something one knows from the earliest age.

And to those arguing against - I can see your side too. It is a very difficult concept to grasp, especially for those having no experience. Just put yourself in the child's position. It's a state of torture that is almost impossible to imagine.
Believe me, I sympathize with the plight of those who are transgendered, but this isn't about that. This is about which restroom the young kid (and by extension, other transgendered people) should use.

He was offered the unisex restroom at his school, which to me shows that the school made an attempt to honor his wishes to not use the boys room. That was not good enough for his parents, and I'm just very suspicious that this has more to do with their desire to cause a scene and gain notoriety than anything else. The link ClixPix posted would seem to corroborate that.

My whole thing is that the wishes of the other females at this school (which again can be extrapolated to females in general) are considered and not just those of this one child and his parents. A compromise needs to be made, and I feel like one was reached, but I don't think this kids parents are interested in compromise at all.

And that's what bugs me about this whole scenario.
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Old Jun 25, 2013, 07:34 PM   #155
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Originally Posted by techn0lady View Post
It is sad to think that people are afraid to say the right thing because they have been made to feel they will be punished for it
The "right thing" is none other than your opinion. Just like my opinion is that the parents are solely responsible for this child's mess. They did not raise this child properly, and now he will be paying for it for the rest of his life. It's rather disgusting how parenting has gone downhill in the west as of late. Really disturbing almost.
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Old Jun 25, 2013, 08:06 PM   #156
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Originally Posted by SLC Flyfishing View Post
Believe me, I sympathize with the plight of those who are transgendered, but this isn't about that. This is about which restroom the young kid (and by extension, other transgendered people) should use.

He was offered the unisex restroom at his school, which to me shows that the school made an attempt to honor his wishes to not use the boys room. That was not good enough for his parents, and I'm just very suspicious that this has more to do with their desire to cause a scene and gain notoriety than anything else. The link ClixPix posted would seem to corroborate that.

My whole thing is that the wishes of the other females at this school (which again can be extrapolated to females in general) are considered and not just those of this one child and his parents. A compromise needs to be made, and I feel like one was reached, but I don't think this kids parents are interested in compromise at all.

And that's what bugs me about this whole scenario.
The females are six years old. Hopefully they haven't been sexualized a la Jon Benet Ramsey. They really probably don't care. Be honest with yourself it's you who is most affected by it, not the kids.

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Originally Posted by SprSynJn View Post
The "right thing" is none other than your opinion. Just like my opinion is that the parents are solely responsible for this child's mess. They did not raise this child properly, and now he will be paying for it for the rest of his life. It's rather disgusting how parenting has gone downhill in the west as of late. Really disturbing almost.
Can you provide proof to back up your claims? The only thing in support of your view is a six year old forum post that may or may not be real. I highly doubt that any parent could pressure a kid to be the opposit gender. The only thing disgusting in the west is people who jump to conclusions without ANY facts, only their own biases .
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Old Jun 25, 2013, 08:09 PM   #157
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Due to an individual feeling "insulted", I have edited this post out. Nothing else needs to be said.

Last edited by SprSynJn; Jun 25, 2013 at 09:35 PM.
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Old Jun 25, 2013, 08:17 PM   #158
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Wonder how many parents will think is a reason good enough to pull their kids from that school?
Most people really don't need to care about this.

Normally with most people their body and brains match. Some times thinks don't go that way and we have a mis-match. Maybe only one person in thousands is like that. Rate problems are always hard to deal with because, of course we don't have much experience with it.

I'm sure some ignorant parents will think this kid's condition might be contagious. But it's not. The other kids limey don't care much about such things.
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Old Jun 25, 2013, 08:27 PM   #159
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Originally Posted by costabunny View Post
In my experience most transgendered folk did know what they were from the earliest memories. They may not have known what was wrong until later or exactly how they were distinct from others who shared their physical appearance; but they knew....

That is exactly what me reading tells me too. I actually had the chance to read through the peer reviewed literature on this. that does seem to be universally true that the kids always remeber that they were "different" but did not understand gender identity untill they were older.

For most people, females know they are female and males know they are male. Even if one of you reading this were to be forcibly put through a sex change operation you'd still continue to identify as female or male the same as you are now. Some how your identity in independent of how you look.

All transgeneder peole claim they have always been that way.

The best way to understand this kid is thin imagine yourself after a forced sex change operation. You'd almost certainly NOT like the result.


This seem to also be very different from being gay. Gay men KNOW they are male.

We can learn a lot about ourselves by studying this cases. What is the root cause of gender identity? Clearly it is NOT how you look. It is something else.
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Old Jun 25, 2013, 08:45 PM   #160
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Originally Posted by SprSynJn View Post
Do none of you utilize your own common sense in matters like these? Do you really need proof to think for yourselves? I feel very sorry for you and any children you raise if so. Very sorry.
I don't know, do you? If anything that sounds like a personal insult, something that is highly discouraged here at MR.

Common sense means acknowledging transgenderism. There's nothing more to be said.
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Old Jun 25, 2013, 09:08 PM   #161
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I don't know, do you? If anything that sounds like a personal insult, something that is highly discouraged here at MR.

Common sense means acknowledging transgenderism. There's nothing more to be said.
Personal insults seem to mean something else here at MR if that is the case. I have seen nothing but posts claiming science has proven that this is fine for the child, which common sense tells me it isn't. Since many here seem to cling to science as "factual evidence for life", then my reaction is to ask "why?" There was no real disrespect meant. I just feel sorry for children like that. If its a grown man, then there is nothing that can be said. But it's a child. A child who barely knows right from wrong.

And common sense does not mean anyone has to acknowledge anything. That again is your opinion.
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Old Jun 25, 2013, 09:09 PM   #162
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Originally Posted by SprSynJn View Post
It's rather disgusting how parenting has gone downhill in the west as of late. Really disturbing almost.
Thank goodness it's only happened "of late", and people haven't been lamenting the downward slide of parenting since, oh, let's say the 1960's. Or maybe even the 1950's, i.e. the "beat generation".

Yeah, definitely nothing but downhill since the end of WWII.
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Old Jun 25, 2013, 09:40 PM   #163
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Old Jun 25, 2013, 11:24 PM   #164
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Originally Posted by MacNut View Post
Is it natural or are there outside factors that influence development. Isn't everyone born neutral.
no they are not born neutral.
They have done study after study that they find even babies who are just starting to be able to move around and what not that boys and girls behave differently.

At such and age before a human body can really tell the difference form parents acting. Hell parents are just providing food, diper changes ect.

Guess what boys and girls act differently. This tells use that out side influces has little effect.

Hell there are studies showing that you can treat a boy as a girl all his life and he will still not act like a normal girl and will know something is wrong.
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