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Old Jun 11, 2014, 12:51 PM   #226
citizenzen
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Originally Posted by SLC Flyfishing View Post
In what meaningful way are we going after alcohol?
Obtuse question.
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Old Jun 11, 2014, 12:54 PM   #227
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Why would it's contribution to car crashes matter?

Over 400,000 deaths each year.

What's that compared to 10,000 automobile deaths?[COLOR="#808080"]
Because those car crashes often kill innocent people. People just trying to get to work, or to see their loved ones.

Not so with smoking.

And like I said, we're doing what we can to harm the tobacco industry's ability to attract new users.

And I would argue that this should also be a bigger priority (and is) than guns.

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Obtuse question.
Answer it. You said we were, tell me how you see us going after alcohol.
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Old Jun 11, 2014, 12:55 PM   #228
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If it isn't legal, and your standard is whatever you want to choose to defend yourself with, then it shouldn't be too much of a stretch to go the next step to legalize it.

After all, if that's your standard, on what basis should it be deemed illegal?[COLOR="#808080"]

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its a stretch simply because that is not my standard.
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Old Jun 11, 2014, 01:06 PM   #229
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its a stretch simply because that is not my standard.
You've said time and time again that people should defend themselves with whatever they choose to defend themselves with.

Please provide the rationale for denying them choices that we currently deem too dangerous.

If your rationale is "they are illegal", then you have no argument against laws that restrict firearms since that makes them illegal as well.

There needs to be something beyond that.

What do you have?

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Quote:
Originally Posted by SLC Flyfishing View Post
Answer it. You said we were, tell me how you see us going after alcohol.
I'm not going to answer obtuse questions.

If you haven't been paying attention the past few decades, that's a "you" problem.
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Old Jun 11, 2014, 01:28 PM   #230
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I'm not going to answer obtuse questions.

If you haven't been paying attention the past few decades, that's a "you" problem.
So you realize that we haven't been "going after" alcohol then?

Please explain how asking for specifics is considered obtuse!
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Old Jun 11, 2014, 01:46 PM   #231
citizenzen
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Originally Posted by SLC Flyfishing View Post
Please explain how asking for specifics is considered obtuse!
You're asking me to explain how we're going after alcohol.

That's your issue. Look it up.

But I'll give you a hint ... over the last few decades there has been a multi-faceted approach to crack down on drinking while impaired.

I'm amazed you're not aware of it.
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Old Jun 11, 2014, 02:35 PM   #232
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You're asking me to explain how we're going after alcohol.

That's your issue. Look it up.

But I'll give you a hint ... over the last few decades there has been a multi-faceted approach to crack down on drinking while impaired.

I'm amazed you're not aware of it.
I'm the one who said we weren't. You said we were. It's on you to back up your claim when asked.
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Old Jun 11, 2014, 03:06 PM   #233
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Originally Posted by SLC Flyfishing View Post
Discussing the statistics of alcohol related vs. gun related death is the very definition of rational discussion. Perhaps this is something you're not used to participating in?
Are you suggesting a prohibition on both recreational drugs and guns?

Drug addiction has nothing to do with gun violence. They are separate, unless you want to admit guns are handy tools for drug runners/dealers/junkies to have, while acknowledging that alcohol is legal. This is just a flawed argument trying to take the heat off guns. Not buying it.
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Old Jun 11, 2014, 03:07 PM   #234
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Quote:
Originally Posted by citizenzen View Post
1.You've said time and time again that people should defend themselves with whatever they choose to defend themselves with.

2.Please provide the rationale for denying them choices that we currently deem too dangerous.

3.If your rationale is "they are illegal", then you have no argument against laws that restrict firearms since that makes them illegal as well.

4.There needs to be something beyond that.

5.What do you have?

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I'm not going to answer obtuse questions.

If you haven't been paying attention the past few decades, that's a "you" problem.

1 yes, I did think that I had to add "LEGALLY" to it.

2. see 1.

3 plenty of worthless irrelevant laws already.

4.like?

5 mostly knives, getting some pepper spray, HS shotgun stays at home.
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Old Jun 11, 2014, 03:35 PM   #235
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1 yes, I did think that I had to add "LEGALLY" to it.

2. see 1.

3 plenty of worthless irrelevant laws already.
Your answer #3 contradicts your answer #1.

You want to lean on the law to support your case, but when it doesn't, then you brush the law off as "worthless" and "irrelevant".

It's a very convenient inconsistency on your part.

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Quote:
Originally Posted by SLC Flyfishing View Post
I'm the one who said we weren't. You said we were. It's on you to back up your claim when asked.
Sorry, but this whole "people are hypocrites because they don't complain about alcohol as much as they complain about guns" is your red herring.

Arguing over the details of an illogical argument is a waste of my time.
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Old Jun 11, 2014, 03:39 PM   #236
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Your answer #3 contradicts your answer #1.

You want to lean on the law to support your case, but when it doesn't, then you brush the law off as "worthless" and "irrelevant".

It's a very convenient inconsistency on your part
#1 should read, " I did NOT think that I had to add "LEGALLY" to it.

and SOME laws ARE worthless & irrelevant, that is not being inconsistent, its a simple fact.
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Old Jun 11, 2014, 03:52 PM   #237
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#1 should read, " I did NOT think that I had to add "LEGALLY" to it.

and SOME laws ARE worthless & irrelevant, that is not being inconsistent, its a simple fact.
Amazing how the one's you deem worthless and irrelevant center around laws that would regulate firearms.

How convenient.
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Old Jun 11, 2014, 03:59 PM   #238
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Amazing how the one's you deem worthless and irrelevant center around laws that would regulate firearms.

How convenient.
is this thread not about guns? should we include traffic laws?
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Old Jun 12, 2014, 06:45 AM   #239
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Oregon School Shooting 10 June 2014

We have reaped what the NRA has sewn. Using a gun to settle our differences has become the norm. You gun proponents really think this is the right direction??
What have you wrought here?

The resident US gun evangelists and bigots seemed to have given up on this thread. Their beliefs ignore the experience of more civilised developed countries, resulting in USA gun crime, murder rates….. and attitude…. being more akin to the third world than an advanced nation.

But now they are back again, clinging to reactionary ideals, fixing their facts to suit their fantasy, and preaching to the converted.

Not to worry, with their less than pleasant demeanour, they probably alienate more than they pervert.
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Old Jul 11, 2014, 04:44 PM   #240
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Texas Shooter Tied Up Kids, and Executed Them (July 10, 2014)

Widespread gun ownership is a double edged sword. The more guns available, the more opportunity to be killed by them.
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Old Jul 13, 2014, 03:57 PM   #241
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"The more guns available, the more opportunity to be killed by them."

Yup. Governments have racked up some pretty good numbers. 200 million, last century; doing okay so far in the 21st.

Save a dog: Disarm a cop.
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Old Jul 15, 2014, 09:40 AM   #242
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Ill give my standard response to anti-gun threads/comments.

"The only way to stop a bad guy with a gun is a good guy with a gun."

There is two "gun cultures" in the USA. The responsible ones you want by your side in times of danger and then there's the idiots who think holding their gun sideways is good markmanship and unloading their clip at kids in a school or an inner city house for revenge.

Given the 2nd amendment isn't going anywhere (and for good reason), I think the reasonable side is to be on the responsible side. The one that pushes for gun safety and education. And I will never claim the dudes going into Target stores with long guns strapped to their back trying to make some sort of open carry point that does nothing but hurt the cause of responsible gun ownership.
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